Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Troi as a character was always kinda weird when you think about it. In TOS, Spock would do the Vulcan Mind Meld to give characters that normally can't talk--like the Horta--a voice to characterize them. Troi is supposed to be able to do that 100% of the time. The result is that removing all the limitations of the mind meld tends to make scenes with her in them not that great because she has to say vague things in an attempt to maintain tension and mystery. It's not until they start leaning into her as a psychologist does she start to work as a character and that's by around season 4 or 5.
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Yeah, the usual theory you hear is that they figured Trek fans are huge spergs and would need someone around all the time to explain what facial expressions mean. Seems redundant to me though when you've also hired theatrical actors whose emoting can be seen from space.

But my real problem is that she's a fucking vampire who steals agency and character moments from everyone else. Season 1 examples:

- Picard gets some information that clearly reminds him of something from his past that still troubles him --> (pointless Troi ready room scene where she tells Picard something from his past is troubling him and he needs to deal with it) --> Picard has an impulse to visit the holomat to try dealing with it.

- Picard decides to show dominance to Riker by trying to get the entire senior staff killed by beaming everyone down to clearly the most dangerous planet yet, so Geordi is left in command --> he's obviously green and uncertain, but overcomes it and establishes confidence by showing his balls to a senior officer --> (pointless Troi ready room scene where she tells Geordi that the junior officers he's now leading are green and uncertain and he needs to show confidence) --> Geordi does what he was already doing and saves the day.

This happens like every episode; the most useful thing she does all season is get trapped in a crashed shuttlecraft.

In my ideal cut the parts in red would be replaced with a 1-second smash cut to Barclay yelling BRAWNY, followed by them getting to be better characters by just doing the things on their own. Also maybe we use computers to add a scene of Grampa Bones punching her in the cunt during his Farpoint visit.
 
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there's always the classic joke about TNG writing and Troi where the head of the ship opposite the D is all "WE WILL DESTROY YOU AND ALL EARTHERS!"
"captain, I sense hostility from them, but also anger"
 
ZMOT said:
just in modern writing, back then it was way more common. it's also somewhat of a trope they just grabbed from romcoms, think I love lucy where the dude is too dense and incompetent. problem is when you put it in a "serious" environment the way it's done now it's outright malevolent.


remember reading (might've been here) that the "maybe they commit more crimes" is adlibbed. never looked into it if that's actually true tho or just some /tv/ meme/urban myth


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Imagine Guinan and Neelix combined. Kill me now.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Thanks to Nitpicking Nerd, I now laugh at the scene, as I can totally believe Marina Sirtis is like this in real life.
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I have a friend that will tell me to try a transport ship if I've been having a bad day lol.


This woman has been giving you bad advice
ft random Klingon

Parody TNG Edit 229 Ship Con Seller

 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
It's not until they start leaning into her as a psychologist does she start to work as a character and that's by around season 4 or 5.
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I remember she'd always be standing around on the bridge, because of course what you absolutely need on the bridge of a starship is a high school guidance counselor, and some fucker would be shooting at them and she'd say something like "I sense anger." They really didn't know what to do with the character for most of the show.

I thought Troi was a good character who could have actually had roles, but I may be looking back with nostalgia because I had the hots for Marina Sirtis at the time (you have to admit she was hot in that tight Starfleet uniform).
XYZpdq Jr. said:
there's always the classic joke about TNG writing and Troi where the head of the ship opposite the D is all "WE WILL DESTROY YOU AND ALL EARTHERS!"
"captain, I sense hostility from them, but also anger"
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Yeah I see you got to this before I did (although it is a perennial discussion whenever Troi comes up). It's not just anger, though, it's almost any obvious emotion whatsoever, no matter how scenery-chewingly obvious it is.

In retrospect, the hotter Troi is Lwaxana.
 
Burt Ryan said:
I went from hating the first episodes with Lwaxana in DS9, to liking her character by the end of her last.
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I loved how she always completely threw Picard off his stride. He knew how to deal with Q better than Lwaxana.
 
Burt Ryan said:
I went from hating the first episodes with Lwaxana in DS9, to liking her character by the end of her last.
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I love her episodes in DS9. Her interactions with Odo are hilarious imo. She's an actual "strong woman".
 
AnOminous said:
They really didn't know what to do with the character for most of the show.
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Troi had potential. She got better in the last seasons but there were a lot of missed opportunities. She was great in Face Of The Enemy where she was the Romulan spy. That was one of the few times they played to her characters' strength well. Whoopi was more of a therapist than her who was just eye candy sadly. I get the impression that the producers didn't want to copy Spock so they split the science character between Crusher, Troi and Data with Deanna getting the short end of the stick.

Seven worked better as bridge babe because of her character arc and borg background which made her much more useful to the plot than just stating obvious emotions.
 
to be fair TNG season 1+2 has maybe a handful of good episodes, troi gets a better characterization once everything else improves.
I mean season 1 literally has "nignogs steal the strong blond women", can't get any more cringe/based than that.
 
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