Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[TaimuRadiu]

Thinking about rewatching TNG but then I remember the absolute slog most of season 1 and to a lesser extent season 2 are.

I like season 1 a LOT better than season 2. Season 1 is thematically TOS which is why I love it so much.

@William Murderface

Yeah well we all know Eddington was right when he said "at least the Borg are honest." Even in the 24th century it's rare to find a based leaf and Eddington is he.

@Overly Serious

I don't care, it means we got more Worf. I would do almost anything for a Section 31 series being basically The Worf Chronicles that would be a pure action series about Worf kicking ass and taking names.

@Judge Holden

It was a hopeful time. Also Roddenberry was literally an esoteric Trotzkyist, and he was spiritually Jewish and could out Jew the Hollywood Jew. In TOS the Prime Directive was sort of selectively applied, and when stuff happened like the Enterprise being caught in between euthanasia war planets or Federation scientist creates a Nazi planet Kirk merrily threw it aside to protect his people. I want to say it was also thrown aside to protect people in times like when Kirk was abducted and forced to become a space Indian too.

It's also hinted repeatedly thruout Enterprise that Phlox was stunningly incompetent as a doctor and kind of tarded his way into solutions with no regard to medical ethics, like the time he grew a clone of Tucker just to harvest his organs.

 

[johnny johnny yes papa]

I like season 1 a LOT better than season 2. Season 1 is thematically TOS which is why I love it so much.

Maybe so but I got to the retarded nigger planet episode last night and fell asleep.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Maybe so but I got to the retarded nigger planet episode last night and fell asleep.

I mean everyone hated that episode, including the writers, who were fired midway thru production and the episode rewritten by Gene.

 

[WonderWino]

@Mystery Spy

I've never seen a single episode of Picard. It sounded dreadful except for Season 3 which was apparently dreadful with highlights. But the way you describe it makes me think of that scene in Extras where Patrick Stewart (as himself) has decided to write a film script.

The guy should clearly never be allowed near a keyboard.

isn't that scene some kind of parody?

That said, the picard series was garbage. Personally I thought the third season was the worst out of all of them. The first one was bizarre and deliberately threw in constant fake foreshadowing of shit going bad with the borg cube yet nothing ever actually went wrong, the second season didn't make any sense at all and managed to come off as a parody of a parody with the whole evil timeline, and yet again they managed to fuck up the borg in the most nonsensical way possible and then proceed to explain absolutely nothing and do absolutely nothing with it, and then there is season 3, which came off worse than bad fan fiction. The plot makes absolutely zero sense, goes in absolutely bizarre directions, pulls nonsense out of its ass about the founders...which somehow pose as solids with some special technique thats never explained because reasons but it is extremely painful and eventually kills them because reasons and they're retarded enough to side with the borg of all people? Yeah cause thats not going to immediately lead to getting fucked over as soon as they assimilate everybody. and then the twit they brought in who got pissy at picard constantly was just irritating and came off like a stupider rehash of sisko hating picard

I've been watching that video I shared earlier, and man, it's crazy how much Patrick Stewart inserted himself into Picard. I never noticed it before, but now it makes so much sense. I only bothered with the first season before giving up on NuTrekforever.

Basically, Picard wasn’t just a vanity project to cash in on his Logan success—his version of Picard was straight-up a self-insert. Season one was basically him working through white guilt.

The TNG main cast always made a big deal about being like a family, but knowing what Stewart did, it feels like a total dick move that he specifically requested them—his longtime friends—not to return as regulars as a condition for coming back (though he finally caved in season 3). Fans would’ve loved it, and his so-called friends would’ve gotten more work, better pay, and more time in the spotlight. He did obviously so it would all be about him.

And then there’s his other demand—refusing to wear a uniform or be a captain—which is just peak prima donna behavior. The worst part? He admitted to setting these conditions himself in his own book. Don’t get me wrong, Kurtzman is awful, but from the way Stewart set things up, it’s like he sabotaged Picard before it even started with his “rules”.

Then in season two, he basically rewrote Picard to hate math—when, canonically, Picard likes math—just because he doesn’t. And on top of that, since Stewart found love late in life and had issues with his dad, he retconned Picard’s entire backstory to match his own. The whole season was just a personal quest for him to get a girlfriend.

The worst part? Picard’s personality is nothing like it was in TNG. There’s no sign of the wise man of integrity who gave powerful speeches—just an actor who’s way too full of himself.

I really don’t like Kurtzman, but at this point, Picard wasn’t even his disaster alone—Stewart hijacked it to turn a beloved character into his story. In the end, Picard wasn’t a Star Trek show—it was just wish-fulfillment, self-insert fanfic fantasy. And a glorified therapy session for an old actor. No wonder it was terrible.

If Steward wanted a story about his life, he should have done that instead of hijacking Star Trek to do so.

By most accounts patrick stewart is a bit of a prick irl so i'm not that surprised. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the 'family' thing they've tried to portray isn't as true as its been made out to be. Particularly when you take into account that such a thing hasn't really happened with any of the other casts. Voyager was famous for the cast being assholes and not getting along at all, ds9 was very regimented and weird about their interactions and most of the time everybody just stayed out of each others way and fucked off back to their trailers when their scenes were finished for the day. Supposedly avery brooks was a big part of the reasoning for it and was real easy to piss off, to the point when nicole deboer showed up she called him avery when talking about some shit for a scene and the crew got right panicky thinking he was going to lose his shit, as there was apparently a rule about calling him 'mr brooks.' Apparently he's always been weird as fuck about stuff like that. Which considering his interviews involved him answering questions by playing the piano I can't say i'm entirely surprised. Its also interesting that he's made a point of avoiding anything ds9 related like the plague

 

[Chilson]

it makes sense from a philosophical standpoint, what "right" does the federation have to kill it just because of X, which could be anything from eating humans to being blue.
eventually it would solve itself when it eventually runs into someone strong enough to fuck it up in self defense, but it wouldn't be a premeditated action.

No, no it doesn't and I am tired of people defending the fucking stupid crystalline entity. Its fucking retarded to do anything but kill it. IT KILLS ALL LIFE ON ENTIRE FUCKING PLANETS FFS!!!

Its the same shitty logic of letting lions maul people to death because its natural for lions to eat people. We invented spears to kill the things mauling us to death, not because we didn't like the color of their skin.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

No, no it doesn't and I am tired of people defending the fucking stupid crystalline entity. Its fucking retarded to do anything but kill it. IT KILLS ALL LIFE ON ENTIRE FUCKING PLANETS FFS!!!

Its the same shitty logic of letting lions maul people to death because its natural for lions to eat people. We invented spears to kill the things mauling us to death, not because we didn't like the color of their skin.

to be fair most people have to go majorly out of their way to get in mauling range of a lion these days

Maybe so but I got to the retarded nigger planet episode last night and fell asleep.

wow this nerd can't dig Planet Of The Negros
next you'll tell me you have trouble with Planet Of The Killing Wesley And Fucking

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Maybe so but I got to the retarded nigger planet episode last night and fell asleep.

I never disliked that episode.

I'm not a racist either...

wow this nerd can't dig Planet Of The Negros
next you'll tell me you have trouble with Planet Of The Killing Wesley And Fucking

I like that episode. Not for the Killing Wesley or for the Fucking, but bc the premise is interesting: rigid discipline and justice work to maintain a functional society, but what happens when accidents happen? No wonder their god kicked the federation out so quick.

 

[Gregg Turkington]

I've been watching that video I shared earlier, and man, it's crazy how much Patrick Stewart inserted himself into Picard.

He's been a retard about this stuff for a long time. The reason we were blessed with that stupid dune buggy chase in Star Trek Nemesis was Stewart wanted to drive a buggy in a shlock action scene.

 

[Mystery Spy]

I am a also bit skeptical about the TNG cast being a found family also only because it sounds too good to be true. It's not impossible, I am open to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to " acquaintances that like to goof around together during work." They are probably friendly. That I can buy.

As for the actors I do give Leonard Nimoy enormous credit for contributing to Spock's personality. But he was pretty much the exception. Most like Patrick Stewart and Whoopi did have fantastic line delivery, but to say they aren't half as moral, wise,or smart as their characters is and understatement. The writers are the real unsung heroes here. They managed to make Whoopi sound smart and wise!

While I got no complaints on TNG's Steward acting, it's painfully obvious that Picard as, he was on TNG, wasn't his real passion. Even if he did a great job.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

He's been a retard about this stuff for a long time. The reason we were blessed with that stupid dune buggy chase in Star Trek Nemesis was Stewart wanted to drive a buggy in a shlock action scene.

on the plus side that pissed off Takei

 

[Overly Serious]

isn't that scene some kind of parody?

Yes, of course. It's from a British TV series called Extras by Ricky Gervais. He plays a small time actor and episodes have real and famous actors play themselves, usually in a self-mocking way. Special respect to Orlando Bloom, Kate Winslet, Ross Kemp and Sir Ian McKellan for especially sending themselves up. Kate Winslet smoking a fag and bitching about having to do a holocaust movie if she's ever going to get an Oscar is especially great.

All that said, seems with Patrick Stewart there was an element of truth to it.

 

[Gregg Turkington]

I am a also bit skeptical about the TNG cast being a found family also only because it sounds too good to be true. It's not impossible, I am open to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to " acquaintances that like too goof around together during work." They are probably friendly. That I can buy

They likely maintain the mask of everyone being one big happy family to keep up an image and group persona which helps them in conventions, which is probably what a lot of the TNG cast rely on for their income. Nerds are going to be more captivated by the family image over the probably more likely reality that for a lot of them it was just a job.

 

[ZMOT]

No, no it doesn't and I am tired of people defending the fucking stupid crystalline entity. Its fucking retarded to do anything but kill it. IT KILLS ALL LIFE ON ENTIRE FUCKING PLANETS FFS!!!

nigger are you dense? pointing out the argument OF A CHARACTER doesn't mean a defense, fuck off to reddit with that smoothbrain shit.

Its the same shitty logic of letting lions maul people to death because its natural for lions to eat people. We invented spears to kill the things mauling us to death, not because we didn't like the color of their skin.

to give you the benefit of doubt, lions mauling people didn't make us genociding all lions, never mind the logic "b-but they kill people" is retarded as a reasonable argument. people kill people, following that we should genocide everyone just to be sure "no one gets killed anymore". see the issue? instead we only killed lions when they became an immediate danger (or for sport) and otherwise build protections.

in case you haven't noticed, even our fucking law makes a big difference between self-defense and premeditated murder, ignoring on top there's no fuckin space jurisdiction for that level. picard literally said in survivors to some dude who wiped out a whole fucking race: "we're not qualified to be your judges. we have no law to fit your crime" and let him go.
there's a whole fucking episode about capital punishment in the first season, while also ignoring that picard wanted to try to communicate first instead of nuking the entity out of some knee-jerk sense of "justice". there's a whole fucking dialogue about that with riker in that very same episode. picard ALWAYS wants to try to reason first (yes, even in cases like this), if you missed that I don't wtf you were watching.

ffs tng is full of questions like that regarding morality and philosophy, that's what makes it so good. that's why we can still discuss it three fucking decades later, which wouldn't happen with "herdperp it's dangerous, let's kill it" and some cheap emotional payoff.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

TTh

They likely maintain the mask of everyone being one big happy family to keep up an image and group persona which helps them in conventions, which is probably what a lot of the TNG cast rely on for their income. Nerds are going to be more captivated by the family image over the probably more likely reality that for a lot of them it was just a job.

They've worked together for more than ten years, there is always gonna be some familiarity between them, even if they aren't BFFs.

But I find more believable that the cast except Patrick Stewart are closer between each other than to him due to an age issue.

 

[Gan Ying]

They likely maintain the mask of everyone being one big happy family to keep up an image and group persona which helps them in conventions, which is probably what a lot of the TNG cast rely on for their income. Nerds are going to be more captivated by the family image over the probably more likely reality that for a lot of them it was just a job.

I think it's pretty common for B and C-list actors to develop relatively close bonds just because it's often the best way to do networking. If you're a B-List actor known for some role and you get cast in something because of that role, you can often get your former co-stars involved too. So it is 'cause of the job, but when you have this kind of nepotistic system going where you're all in a kind of unspoken guild, you start to appreciate each other. If you don't like each other you probably wouldn't go out of your way to help each other get work. It's likely different for Pat Stew who is (or was for a long while) an A-List actor.

I think at least Marina Sirtis is pretty genuine about it all, since her career prior to TNG was mostly roles like "Rape Victim #2" in Golan and Globus films. Seems genuinely close with Frakes since they show up in a lot of stuff together and he was a groomsman at her wedding.

 

[OrionBalls]

Oh, my goodness it finally arrived! An asymmetrical deck building, two player only, captain on captain fight! We got it on preorder at GenCon last year!
I can't wait to break into this sucker!

 

[Post Reply]

But I find more believable that the cast except Patrick Stewart are closer between each other than to him due to an age issue.

Plus there's all those poker games they played together which he never joined.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Plus there's all those poker games they played together which he never joined.

They also filmed many mission scenes together and Stewart never joined them because he was the captain except for special occasions. Most of his scenes were confined to the bridge or his office, but the others were having jokes and doing stunts in different sets. It's a bigger chance to bond together.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

He's been a retard about this stuff for a long time. The reason we were blessed with that stupid dune buggy chase in Star Trek Nemesis was Stewart wanted to drive a buggy in a shlock action scene.

Picard died in the Nexus. Everything since is just his Nexus dream.

Went on a badass action sequence to kill the Borg Queen? Him dealing with being mindraped by *a* Borg Queen (each Borg cube has their own Queen)

Insurrection? He wanted to save a planet by throwing away the Prime Directive once in his life

Nemesis? He has to face off against his younger clone self, who is still bald, and defeat him

The whole of Picard? Eh I'll accept some of it, esp the 3rd season and the very end scene with Seven. Watching the Ent-D kickass and take names was actually pretty great and I loved the fanservice.

I am a also bit skeptical about the TNG cast being a found family also only because it sounds too good to be true. It's not impossible, I am open to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to " acquaintances that like too goof around together during work." They are probably friendly. That I can buy.

As for the actors I do give Leonard Nemoy enormous credit for contributing to Spock's personality. But he was pretty much the exception. Most like Patrick Stewart and Whoopi did have fantastic line delivery, but to say they aren't half as moral, wise,or smart as their characters is and understatement. The writers are the real unsung heroes here. They managed to make Whoopi sound smart and wise!

While I got no complaints on TNG's Steward acting, it's painfully obvious that Picard as, he was on TNG, wasn't his real passion. Even if he did a great job.

I hated Guinan in the 90s and I still dislike her now. Time's Arrow especially was about how stupidly magical Guinan was. Yesterday's Enterprise would have benefited from 0 Guinan but the Ent-D's science officer going "swirly thing alert you have to put them back. oops Tasha was on board trying to guide them back." Q Who would have benefited from 100% less Guinan but Troi going "oooo spooky thing" with Q. Etc.

 

[The Gene Genie]

I am a also bit skeptical about the TNG cast being a found family also only because it sounds too good to be true. It's not impossible, I am open to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to " acquaintances that like to goof around together during work." They are probably friendly. That I can buy.

As for the actors I do give Leonard Nemoy enormous credit for contributing to Spock's personality. But he was pretty much the exception. Most like Patrick Stewart and Whoopi did have fantastic line delivery, but to say they aren't half as moral, wise,or smart as their characters is and understatement. The writers are the real unsung heroes here. They managed to make Whoopi sound smart and wise!

While I got no complaints on TNG's Steward acting, it's painfully obvious that Picard as, he was on TNG, wasn't his real passion. Even if he did a great job.

The only Star Trek actors that I can buy being as close as they say they were are Nimoy and Shatner, and maybe throw Kelly in there too.