Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Prompt Critical said:
I like Duet a lot - I'd definitely place it in a top 10 Trek episodes - but to really be fair, the episode plot is almost beat-for-beat taken from an older drama film called The Man in the Glass Booth.
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Yeah, (to the point they were watching the film while making the episode) but they took the inspiration and built something new from it and made it theirs.
 
Miller said:
I don't know why they're defending the JJ/Kurtzman era of Trek. What do the STD "fans" love about that show or its universe?
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If this was the pre-woke entertainment era it would be universally panned, fans would decry how much it betrays Rodennberry's vision.

But now... some people, people like dobson and those that want to be cool with the kids, especially on twitter, are deluded enough to think that defending bad shows somehow equals to fighting nazis in world war II.
 
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I'm gonna back what @Flexo was saying about Discovery but expand on it alittle.

Industry wants a woke cast full of women and PoCs? Fine. I actually don't give a shit, and that was the whole fucking point of the original cast of TOS anyway.

Can these people act? It appears so, they seem lively and emotive in interviews. Cast is pretty good-looking too. I know that's vain, but point is, these seem to be professional actors.

Then they get in front of the camera and its like.... fucking robots on methadone. Everyone either acts like they're dead on the inside, acts like a shithead, or acts like they have severe ADHD and they've gone way off their meds.

So where did this all go wrong? I don't know for certain, but I'll bet you just about anything that its the fucking hack behind the camera. Or maybe some producer on set sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Point is, you've got what appears to be a decent set of actors, yet they're directed like freaking muppets when they get on screen. Voyager had this issue to some extent, Enterprise had it worse, JJ Trek had it bad (I think there's an interview out there where Chris Pine literally says the director sucked at his job and I'm pretty sure Simon Peg wasn't happy either) and now its really come to a head with Discovery.

I don't even think The Orville is all that great but I can see why people are basically fellating it compared to Discovery; because the characters on the show actually feel like fucking characters. Comedy characters yes, but still characters. You get a feel for these people. The last few generations of Trek have been getting progressively worse with characterization to the point where I'm just watching in horror at the sheer waste of talent on display sometimes. They can make a good Woke Trek if they want to, because Star Trek has always been about social issues. The people in charge just don't give a shit.
 
L50LasPak said:
They can make a good Woke Trek if they want to, because Star Trek has always been about social issues. The people in charge just don't give a shit.
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Even the hokiest of TOS "racism is bad mmmmkay" stories look like fucking Shakespeare compared to the embarrassing tripe of Woke Trek.
 
AnOminous said:
Even the hokiest of TOS "racism is bad mmmmkay" stories look like fucking Shakespeare compared to the embarrassing tripe of Woke Trek.
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I mean, yeah, we're never, ever gonna get Devil In the Dark again. We're never gonna get Captain Kirk sitting down in front of a burning acid monster and Shatnering his way through the line "So... do we just, sit here, and, talk it over?"

But damnit, I still believe Woke Trek could have some potential if the people running the thing just gave a shit and wanted to write real stories with a real sense of horror and tragedy that still have a happy ending where everyone ties up their differences and well, to borrow an anime quote (God help me), We Have Come To Terms. But its just so dead and soulless and empty that I legit feel bad for the production staff and actors working on it.

I wish I had like a hundred billion dollars and I could just powerwalk in there and go "Everyone's hired, you're coming with me, let's do this thing right." And I'm just some asshole on the internet. There've got to be more professional people out there, I just wish we could get them in place somehow.
 
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I know STD is trash but "Goodbye Spock" gets a chuckle out of me.

The "best" STD ep I've seen so far is "New Eden," which is basically your bog standard Trek plot: town of humans from before WW3 gets sucked up and put on a distant world, the Starfleet finds it, decides the Prime Directive applies to it, hijinks ensue. Pike is the best character on STD, followed by Saru and Number One.
 
TaimuRadiu said:
"New Eden," which is basically your bog standard Trek plot: town of humans from before WW3 gets sucked up and put on a distant world
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I agree, that story was fine, outside of the "power of math" scene. It's a shame that they've never explained why the Red Angel™ (Michael or her mom) took these people out of WW3 and placed them on a random planet in the quadrant.
 
L50LasPak said:
Gonna stop you right there and add "exists".
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macguffin

it could have been done a lot cooler, like "we detected these red blasts all only being visible from this one location and it doesn't seem like a coincedence due to us seeing it at the speed of light" etc and we know the red angel can go thru time, for some reason so they could have made that work
 
Rick Berman did a lot of things wrong, but dangit, the man at least put attractive women in his shows. And if attractive women doing science and kicking ass isn't a part of Roddenberry's vision, then what is?
 
The funniest thing ever about the Ferengi is that they eventually became parodies of Gene himself with their sex and money obession even though he intended them to be parodies of sex and money obession.

(Armin Shimerman's performance as Quark is still great and DS9's maintenance of the Ferengi is pretty good but I think my point stands.)
 
L50LasPak said:
The funniest thing ever about the Ferengi is that they eventually became parodies of Gene himself with their sex and money obession even though he intended them to be parodies of sex and money obession.

(Armin Shimerman's performance as Quark is still great and DS9's maintenance of the Ferengi is pretty good but I think my point stands.)
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I thought they were supposed to be parodies of Jews
 
L50LasPak said:
The funniest thing ever about the Ferengi is that they eventually became parodies of Gene himself with their sex and money obession even though he intended them to be parodies of sex and money obession.

(Armin Shimerman's performance as Quark is still great and DS9's maintenance of the Ferengi is pretty good but I think my point stands.)
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The whole family was good. I still cringe just a little at the "That's our Quark!" episodes where he almost gets the station and everyone destroyed. But the Magnificent Ferengi was such a fun, goofy episode.

MagneticTowels said:
I thought they were supposed to be parodies of Jews
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Hilarious that most of the actors playing Ferengi were Jewish and had zero problem with the roles.
 
Flexo said:
They may not have to. John looks pretty good for his age. Just throw some dye in his hair and we're good. (And of course, Q did appear old to mock Picard in All Good Things.)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SmufzfM6pKU
Thing about nuTrek, I've attended some real life discussions and it's usually about how good the story is.

But then what? Some of us debate the merits (i have a friend who insists he would tolerate STD far more if it was post-voyager) but on the whole... it's just shallow.

Everyone seems to make Trek more shallow than it should be. For example, you ALWAYS hear about how Kirk kissed Urhura. But what was the rest of the episode? What was the plot? What did it tell us?

They're missing the forest for the bushes. Compare Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (the "racism is bad" TOS episode) to Duet (the "racism is bad" DS9 episode). One everybody brings up but nobody really remembers because it doesn't have any depth to it. The DS9 episode however... that is one that sticks with you. It has heart and weight to it.

STD is the cargo cult Trek show. "Oh let's have a woman of color lead it!" Ok.

Now what?

What do you have to say? What's the stories about? What are you examining?

"Uh... Look at the black woman."
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To your point NuTrek and JJ trek writers dont write trek. They write a skinwalker wearing Trek's skin
 
DC Fonatana passed today. She wrote several episodes and edited the story for more. My favorite was Journey to Babel.
 
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