Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Flexo said:
This actually brings up something I just saw this morning.
View attachment 1203764

For those who haven't read it, here's the ending passage to war of the worlds.

For so it had come about, as indeed I and many men might have foreseen had not terror and disaster blinded our minds. These germs of disease have taken toll of humanity since the beginning of things–taken toll of our prehuman ancestors since life began here. But by virtue of this natural selection of our kind we have developed resisting power; to no germs do we succumb without a struggle, and to many–those that cause putrefaction in dead matter, for instance–our living frames are altogether immune. But there are no bacteria in Mars, and directly these invaders arrived, directly they drank and fed, our microscopic allies began to work their overthrow. Already when I watched them they were irrevocably doomed, dying and rotting even as they went to and fro. It was inevitable. By the toll of a billion deaths man has bought his birthright of the earth, and it is his against all comers; it would still be his were the Martians ten times as mighty as they are. For neither do men live nor die in vain.

This actually got me to thinking... what if THAT was the reason for the prime directive? "Look, don't go down to primitive worlds, we don't need our entire, highly trained crews wiped out because of some alien cold! If they have warp drive, then they'll probably have the medicine to treat you if you get sick."

I mean as a philosophical matter it is kind of interesting to examine, but why didn't the show ever stop and point out that there's just a practical reason behind it too?

Heck that would have been a better idea for the Enterprise episode with it. Archer and crew all nearly die to the Wu Zu Flu and Phlox barely saves them in time. It would even have some meta humor as we would then realize this idea that crews in the future would have intense debates about, was invented for a very practical, self-serving reason.
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I thought the Prime Directive was initially so that Starfleet wouldn't repeat human history and go around colonizing planets with existing cultures and wiping them out, either accidentally or on purpose. (Europeans in the Americas, Romans in Britain, etc.)

Miller said:
  • Picard dies, they apparently scanned his brain - off screen - and transfered a copy into the golem but it's not just a synth body, it has no augmentation or super ability. This new Picard synth will only live for another 10 years. What was the point then?
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Wait they can do this now? I can't wait for the Eugenics Wars 2.0 aka the Transhuman Wars.
 
I re-watched Dear Doctor tonight and have more to say.

The framework was all there for this to be a *much* better episode than it ended up being, (especially the part where Archer is forced to deal with a less technologically advanced species that needs his help, and so he sees things from the Vulcan's point of view for once) but the absolute failure to stick the landing ruins the entire episode for me. Also, Phlox is a straight-up psychopath.

Think about it, Phlox is all for helping helping the Valakians at the beginning when everyone thought it was some type of illness, and he even continued being all for helping them after it became known that it was a genetic condition. He doesn't even so much as *hint* at having a problem with the (fucking asinine) "morality" of curing the Valakians genetic disorder until *after* he had already cured it.

The *only* thing that even makes sense to explain his apparent change in opinion from "Let's save the Valakians" to "Fuck the Valakians," is the interactions that He, Hoshi and the chick who clearly wanted to fuck him, had with the Menk. They spent a little bit of time with the Menk for a (totally unnecessary, because the Valakians and the Menk were "biologically incompatible") bit of testing of Menk blood.

I can't think of any other way to say this- The Menk are all basically borderline retarded neets, with a language that is literally too dumb to be translated by the Universal Translator. Also, there is no indication that they have any problem with their lot in life. The only instance of "mistreatment" we see of Valakians towards the Menk is that the Menk aren't allowed to live where soil is easily farmable, which makes sense. They're probably too dumb to even properly farm anyway...
...But that doesn't even matter, the Menk guy that the Enterprise crew talk to explicitly says that the Valakians provide for *all* of the Menk's needs, and he is very clearly happy with (and even grateful for) that arrangement.

That's not good enough for Cutler* though (*the chick who clearly wants to ride Denobulan dick, even after learning that Phlox already has 3 wives.)
Cutler is a "proto", (because this episode originally aired in 2002... though it may hopefully also be equally correct to call her a "post" since this takes place in the future) social justard, right down to the point where she clearly wants to step in to "help" a group of people who don't seem to want, or even need any help, and they may even be actively *hurt* by her version of "help."

For most of the episode up to this point, Cutler had been sending Phlox signals that she wanted to fuck him, which confused Phlox at first because this is season 1 and he (obviously) thinks that humans are inferior to him. But he still asked T'itpol for advice on how to deal with a lesser species who wants some strange... Her advice to him was actually actually pretty good, but Phlox clearly ignored it.

After that, Phlox told Cutler that he already had 3 wives, and she (basically) told him that she didn't want to be his 4th wife, but if he played his cards right, they could still be friends with benefits.

Long story short, after this exchange, my personal head canon is now that Phlox realized that all of his wives were light-years away, and he probably wouldn't see any of them again any time soon (I do remember that he met at least one of his wives later, but he didn't know that he would see her at the time), and he obviously still wanted pussy while on a ship full of humans.

Also, the Menk are almost certainly going to die too thanks to Phlox and Archer's (in)actions, the Menk are so totally dependent on Valakians, that when the Valakians die off (because Archer and Phlox decided not to help them,) the Menk aren't smart enough to know what the fuck to do. Maybe there are a few of them smart enough to organize blood samples as busy work for Phlox or whatever, but I bet there aren't any of them smart enough to raise edible crops for their entire population, especially since they haven't been allowed to live in places where crops easily grow, and are used to having all of their needs met by smarter people.

So yeah, I guess I'm saying that Cutler was obviously not happy with the dynamic between the Valakians and the Menk, and Phlox literally committed (possibly double) genocide by inaction, despite not previously caring about that, just to get his dick wet.

I guess Enterprise's answer to the question of "Who are we to decide which one of these two species dies," is "What do we care? let them both die."

Was Enterprise actually secretly black-pilled?
 
ditto said:
I guess it's official now.

Captain Kirk is better than Captain Picard.
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Captain Kirk died under a collapsed bridge. Captain Picard died because of an illness that Q basically told him he was going to get, and he could have easily cured if he went to the Ba'Ku planet. Also:
 
ToroidalBoat said:
What is it with mainstream science fiction catering to freakish fetishes anyway? Star Wars has a thing with amputation, and now it seems Star Trek has a thing with eye gouging...

:thinking:
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How else are people meant to know that your sci-fi show is dark and gritty? That's the real mark of quality in the genre, not intelligent writing or having interesting characters or unique settings. No, it's all about how many explosions and lasers you can fit in alongside the unendingly bleak nihilism.
 
UnKillFill said:
I re-watched Dear Doctor tonight and have more to say.

The framework was all there for this to be a *much* better episode than it ended up being, (especially the part where Archer is forced to deal with a less technologically advanced species that needs his help, and so he sees things from the Vulcan's point of view for once) but the absolute failure to stick the landing ruins the entire episode for me. Also, Phlox is a straight-up psychopath.

Think about it, Phlox is all for helping helping the Valakians at the beginning when everyone thought it was some type of illness, and he even continued being all for helping them after it became known that it was a genetic condition. He doesn't even so much as *hint* at having a problem with the (fucking asinine) "morality" of curing the Valakians genetic disorder until *after* he had already cured it.

The *only* thing that even makes sense to explain his apparent change in opinion from "Let's save the Valakians" to "Fuck the Valakians," is the interactions that He, Hoshi and the chick who clearly wanted to fuck him, had with the Menk. They spent a little bit of time with the Menk for a (totally unnecessary, because the Valakians and the Menk were "biologically incompatible") bit of testing of Menk blood.

I can't think of any other way to say this- The Menk are all basically borderline exceptional neets, with a language that is literally too dumb to be translated by the Universal Translator. Also, there is no indication that they have any problem with their lot in life. The only instance of "mistreatment" we see of Valakians towards the Menk is that the Menk aren't allowed to live where soil is easily farmable, which makes sense. They're probably too dumb to even properly farm anyway...
...But that doesn't even matter, the Menk guy that the Enterprise crew talk to explicitly says that the Valakians provide for *all* of the Menk's needs, and he is very clearly happy with (and even grateful for) that arrangement.

That's not good enough for Cutler* though (*the chick who clearly wants to ride Denobulan dick, even after learning that Phlox already has 3 wives.)
Cutler is a "proto", (because this episode originally aired in 2002... though it may hopefully also be equally correct to call her a "post" since this takes place in the future) social justard, right down to the point where she clearly wants to step in to "help" a group of people who don't seem to want, or even need any help, and they may even be actively *hurt* by her version of "help."

For most of the episode up to this point, Cutler had been sending Phlox signals that she wanted to fuck him, which confused Phlox at first because this is season 1 and he (obviously) thinks that humans are inferior to him. But he still asked T'itpol for advice on how to deal with a lesser species who wants some strange... Her advice to him was actually actually pretty good, but Phlox clearly ignored it.

After that, Phlox told Cutler that he already had 3 wives, and she (basically) told him that she didn't want to be his 4th wife, but if he played his cards right, they could still be friends with benefits.

Long story short, after this exchange, my personal head canon is now that Phlox realized that all of his wives were light-years away, and he probably wouldn't see any of them again any time soon (I do remember that he met at least one of his wives later, but he didn't know that he would see her at the time), and he obviously still wanted pussy while on a ship full of humans.

Also, the Menk are almost certainly going to die too thanks to Phlox and Archer's (in)actions, the Menk are so totally dependent on Valakians, that when the Valakians die off (because Archer and Phlox decided not to help them,) the Menk aren't smart enough to know what the fuck to do. Maybe there are a few of them smart enough to organize blood samples as busy work for Phlox or whatever, but I bet there aren't any of them smart enough to raise edible crops for their entire population, especially since they haven't been allowed to live in places where crops easily grow, and are used to having all of their needs met by smarter people.

So yeah, I guess I'm saying that Cutler was obviously not happy with the dynamic between the Valakians and the Menk, and Phlox literally committed (possibly double) genocide by inaction, despite not previously caring about that, just to get his dick wet.

I guess Enterprise's answer to the question of "Who are we to decide which one of these two species dies," is "What do we care? let them both die."

Was Enterprise actually secretly black-pilled?
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Just going to say that SFDebris' theory that the Valakians became the Breen and the Menk became the Packleds makes it slightly funnier.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
Scifi used to be optimistic for a bright future, but now that the real world seems so dark and hopeless, scifi is reflecting that?
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People keep saying that but they seem to forget that the 70s was a bleak time as well what with the world concerned over nuclear war... you know... killing all humans. (before I got the chance to)

I believe you meatbags have some kind of desire for balance. When things look bleak and desperate, y'all invent optimistic, hopeful stories. But when things are at their best and looking really really good (and I mean really, right about now is probably the best time for humans in all of your history), you start demanding the grimdark.

That's the only thing I can figure out.
 
Oaat said:
I thought the Prime Directive was initially so that Starfleet wouldn't repeat human history and go around colonizing planets with existing cultures and wiping them out, either accidentally or on purpose. (Europeans in the Americas, Romans in Britain, etc.)
Click to expand...

It was also at least partly a reference to the then-ongoing Vietnam War, but since they didn't lay that on with a trowel, there's no reason anyone in current year would draw that inference had they not known it already.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
Scifi used to be optimistic for a bright future, but now that the real world seems so dark and hopeless, scifi is reflecting that?
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It's more the opposite in my experience. Dark times tend to breed bright, optimistic media. I don't know whether that's escapism, defiance or more likely a bit of both. But for me it's usually affluent, lazy times that focus on dark dystopian futures. It's as if people are lost without something to fear - people don't know how to be happy.
 
Overly Serious said:
It's more the opposite in my experience. Dark times tend to breed bright, optimistic media. I don't know whether that's escapism, defiance or more likely a bit of both. But for me it's usually affluent, lazy times that focus on dark dystopian futures. It's as if people are lost without something to fear - people don't know how to be happy.
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It is easier than that, we have had a generation that has been told that "Bright, Optimistic" content isn't "Artistic"
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
It is easier than that, we have had a generation that has been told that "Bright, Optimistic" content isn't "Artistic"
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Explains why mainstream critics seem to favor more nihilistic messages in media these days, how its seen as naive to have something hopeful. Kind of like how they lambasted The Orville as "jingoistic", despite the exact opposite reception of the audience.
 
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