Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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ZMOT said:
as someone who likes F&F for what it is I take offense to that. dudes are still manly dudes, chicks are still hot and the only stronk womyn is the sassy latina which is a decades-old trope at this point. the movies also know what they are and don't try otherwise. even the worst F&F wasn't as shit as nutrek.

rate me dumb if you want, but can you imagine any nutrek writer pulling off that FF7 sendoff for paul walker?

it gets even more ironic when you look up who directed beyond, which is arguably the best of the nutrek movies (and of the the best among all of them, but it's not like the competition was very tough to begin with).
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I can't picture any nutrek writer, director, or producer sticking to the genre, source material, and history with keeping the same kind of story line, commentary, and plot lines as they did in previous movies or shows. NuTrek is all about the OMGSHINEYBOOMBOOM! and "LOL YASSS QUEEN SLAY!" with no backstory, no history, no reverence to where it came from which is why I used FnF as a baseline as it has all the tropes you mentioned, a rich history, explosions/action, but they care as much for Modern Politics as they would about their gas bill for their vehicles.
 
UnKillFill said:
You know what? I'll admit it... There was a point in time (It was like a decade ago at this point, before ST:ID came out at very least.) where I thought that Star Trek Enterprise was the worst that Trek could ever be.

I don't think I've ever been more incorrect about anything in my life.
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I remember when everyone thought Generations was about as bad as it could get.

In retrospect, I now have to give the JJ movies credit for being more interested in being fun (even if they were stupid) than beating the viewer over the head with wokeness and Brexit whining.
 
Tookie said:
I remember when everyone thought Generations was about as bad as it could get.

In retrospect, I now have to give the JJ movies credit for being more interested in being fun (even if they were stupid) than beating the viewer over the head with wokeness and Brexit whining.
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Honestly, I'm not of the mindset that things are a pulley system; IE, just because newer stuff is worse doesn't make older stuff suddenly good.

Generations and those Next Gen movies are very weak sci-fi and poorly written entries into the Trek franchise, even now. Are they better than STD and Picard? Yes, but I have no warm fuzzy feelings to revisit them even now. My feelings from the mediocrity at the time hasn't changed at all in lieu of worse stuff.

That point in Trek's history, you could already see the downward trend starting; they thought Trek needed to be action vs sci-fi.

All the absolute bullshit about Data and Picard being close at all started in those awful movies too, as it was never a thing, at all, past mutual respect, in the TV series.
As Plinkett says, "TV show Picard... we'll call him Larry, yeah, he ain't movie Picard."

And now movie Picard is simply Patrick Stewart. It all started somewhere.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
Honestly, I'm not of the mindset that things are a pulley system; IE, just because newer stuff is worse doesn't make older stuff suddenly good.

Generations and those Next Gen movies are very weak sci-fi and poorly written entries into the Trek franchise, even now. Are they better than STD and Picard? Yes, but I have no warm fuzzy feelings to revisit them even now. My feelings from the mediocrity at the time hasn't changed at all in lieu of worse stuff.

That point in Trek's history, you could already see the downward trend starting; they thought Trek needed to be action vs sci-fi.

All the absolute bullshit about Data and Picard being close at all started in those awful movies too, as it was never a thing, at all, past mutual respect, in the TV series.
As Plinkett says, "TV show Picard... we'll call him Larry, yeah, he ain't movie Picard."

And now movie Picard is simply Patrick Stewart. It all started somewhere.
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It's more like proper perspective.

Does being stuck in rush hour traffic suck? Yeah. Now get your arm ripped off.

That doesn't make rush hour traffic fun, but now you would gladly suffer that rather than losing another arm.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
Generations and those Next Gen movies are very weak sci-fi and poorly written entries into the Trek franchise, even now. Are they better than STD and Picard? Yes, but I have no warm fuzzy feelings to revisit them even now. My feelings from the mediocrity at the time hasn't changed at all in lieu of worse stuff.

That point in Trek's history, you could already see the downward trend starting; they thought Trek needed to be action vs sci-fi.
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the irony is starfleet probably had more than enough action - but somewhere else, not on their flagship for diplomatic missons. if they're that desperate for memberberries they could easily cross it over with said parts, but that again would require actually writing talent and effort. no one could tell me they couldn't make trek deal with it, not after how ds9 dealt with the stuff the enterprise never bothered or wanted to deal with and it worked just fine, if not more so.
 
If I remember correctly the reason there are so many humans in Star Fleet is that humanity is more militaristic, not nessarily more war like though, then most other Federation species. So they're encouraged to do this as they're well suited to it mentally and pretty darn effective despite the drawbacks of their physical form.

Ie: many other species are stronger, faster or smarter but humans work well together, take orders well and seem actually enjoy dangerous space exploration. Something that many other Federation species are straight up deem crazy things to do with one's life.

While humans dominate Star Fleet they don't dominate Federation politics as only a few Presidents have been humans over the centuries.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
Generations and those Next Gen movies are very weak sci-fi and poorly written entries into the Trek franchise, even now. Are they better than STD and Picard? Yes, but I have no warm fuzzy feelings to revisit them even now. My feelings from the mediocrity at the time hasn't changed at all in lieu of worse stuff.
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In an age of digital media where I can just skip to any part in a movie I want to I have gotten the urge to go back to Generations and First Contact at least. There are little moments I like, Shatner's final performance as Kirk is actually pretty good even if his death scene really just boils down to a fistfight. First Contact is a good movie to just have a few beers and enjoy, especially with a less Trek-obessed friend on hand. Its possible I was just stockholmed into liking those movies since I'm a bit younger and they didn't have the impact on me they did on longtime TNG fans.

Insurrection is probably the most tedious. It really has nothing strong going for it; I'd actually go as far as saying its the worst one out of the TNG movies. Nemesis was stupid too but at least it had some kind of pace to it and decent effects for the era.
 
Guts Gets Some said:
The BEST girls are into Star Trek.

Hollywood lies about nerds in that they aren't beautiful; quite the opposite, if you ask me.

T'pol is pretty attractive in the series, but in this picture, it looks so phony and forced. Not attractive at all. Give me a normal girl over that any day of the week.
(I don't know what's up with that bellybutton either; that's what I'd expect to see on a Vulcan more-so than a human being)
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So I finished Season 2 and the last DVD had an interview with Jolene Blalock. She clearly loved working on the show and she talks about watching Star Trek with her father and brother growing up - she actually was a fan. Talked a lot about the fun they all had together making it and comes across as a pretty nice person. Most of them do.
 
Flexo said:
It's more like proper perspective.

Does being stuck in rush hour traffic suck? Yeah. Now get your arm ripped off.

That doesn't make rush hour traffic fun, but now you would gladly suffer that rather than losing another arm.
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Sure, but at the same time, couldn't you also say "Both of these are shit"?

Because that's what I do. They're both Trek I pass on.
L50LasPak said:
In an age of digital media where I can just skip to any part in a movie I want to I have gotten the urge to go back to Generations and First Contact at least. There are little moments I like, Shatner's final performance as Kirk is actually pretty good even if his death scene really just boils down to a fistfight. First Contact is a good movie to just have a few beers and enjoy, especially with a less Trek-obessed friend on hand. Its possible I was just stockholmed into liking those movies since I'm a bit younger and they didn't have the impact on me they did on longtime TNG fans.

Insurrection is probably the most tedious. It really has nothing strong going for it; I'd actually go as far as saying its the worst one out of the TNG movies. Nemesis was stupid too but at least it had some kind of pace to it and decent effects for the era.
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Totally agree, they at least had good parts. STD and Picard don't have that, for sure. :story:
 
L50LasPak said:
Kirk is actually pretty good even if his death scene really just boils down to a fistfight.
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there could be much more inappropriate deaths for Kirk than "fistfight on rocks around a technology thing"
also that speech he gave Picard about not becoming an Admiral is nice
 
UnKillFill said:
If only Picard had listened, then maybe we could have been spared from Star Trek Picard.
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I haven't watch Star Trek Patrick, are you shitting me that he actually got made admiral despite Kirk's advice?
 
XYZpdq said:
there could be much more inappropriate deaths for Kirk than "fistfight on rocks around a technology thing"
also that speech he gave Picard about not becoming an Admiral is nice
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I take it you're unaware of Shatner's batshit insane sequel novels? (Of course Kirk couldn't just die, Shatner's ego is far too big for that)


(Video should instantly play at the appropriate part 15:49)
 
Guts Gets Some said:
I take it you're unaware of Shatner's batshit insane sequel novels? (Of course Kirk couldn't just die, Shatner's ego is far too big for that)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tUw5lAUFsLU:948
(Video should instantly play from the appropriate part)
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I know they exist, revive Kirk, and somethingsomething Vger and the Borg
I don't watch youtube video reviews.
put it in written words or I don't give a shit.
 
XYZpdq said:
also that speech he gave Picard about not becoming an Admiral is nice
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Shatner's performance in general is a surreal contrast to how Stewart later ended up performing in the later TNG movies and Picard. It seems like Shatner really felt like he was Captain Kirk on TOS. Which made everyone hate him because of the whole ego thing. He does talk a hell of a lot about the role though, and mentions how he'd forget lines or get nervous in between takes. By the time of the movie era Kirk is worn out and struggling with getting old and becoming irrelevant, something Shatner no doubt had issues with himself coming to terms with. We watch this guy go from the galaxy's greatest badass to someone more calm and stoic. His arc in Generations is a neat little bow on top of that legacy.

Meanwhile Stewart's desire to be a loud action hero drags down Picard's character in retrospect. It makes me think of the stern and antisocial side of the character more than the peaceful and diplomatic side everyone prefers TNG Picard for. The movies make it seem like he was always this renegade just waiting for the chance to break out of his shell. Which if you go back and watch TNG kind of makes sense. Picard seems really pissed off and impatient in a lot of scenes, very matter of fact, very down to business most of the time. So we get the opposite of Kirk above, a seemingly calm and stoic character mutating into a stereotypical badass.
 
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