Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Tasty Tatty said:
William Shatner has become quite vocal against (npi) shipping in recent years, specially when the ship involves IRL people. He's been particularly protective of Sam Heughan from Outlander because the show involves a lot of sex scenes with his co-protagonist, and that makes a lot of people trying to ship them despite both have their own partners.

Sure, I can 100% understand why he doesn't mind autists thinking he's the real captain of a starship, which is relatively harmless, but a horde of rabid fangirls attacking someone's sweetheart is very uncalled for (I haven't seen it happening to Heughan, but I've seen others celebrities being through this, though)
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Bill is also friends with the two actors from Supernatural, both know how insane their female fanbase is. I think their crazy behavior had an impact on the writing of the show.
 
Miller said:
Bill is also friends with the two actors from Supernatural, both know how insane their female fanbase is. I think their crazy behavior had an impact on the writing of the show.
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Let's not forget Shatner went through the exact same thing himself with the infamous Kirk/Spock slash fics, of which there were so many they almost became a genre unto themselves. These days we have so many weird and fucked up fandoms that they're largely forgotten but back then it was pretty shocking. He's probably one of the few boomers who can look a younger actor in the eyes and say "Yeah, I know exactly how that goes."
 
Miller said:
Bill is also friends with the two actors from Supernatural, both know how insane their female fanbase is. I think their crazy behavior had an impact on the writing of the show.
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Which ones?

And yes, although never fully confirmed, there have been numerous hints in that show of something changed because of fans.
 
Miller said:
If I'm not mistaken, the character played by Jared Padalecki's wife was killed off because the fangirls kept harassing the actress. That's pretty much why none of the Winchesters are allowed to have a stable relationship in the show (I haven't watched the last 3 seasons).
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I meant which ones Shatner was buddies with.

Yeah the "no relationships" are well known, though Ruby (Mrs. Padalecki) lasted longer than most and was killed when it was story appropriate for her. There's probably enough destial shippers to have a holy war against the kirk/Spock shippers.

(Which is silly because we all know Dean's true love is his car, just like Kirk's true love is the enterprise.)
 
Miller said:
If I'm not mistaken, the character played by Jared Padalecki's wife was killed off because the fangirls kept harassing the actress. That's pretty much why none of the Winchesters are allowed to have a stable relationship in the show (I haven't watched the last 3 seasons).
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The actresses that played Jo and Bella both quit because of all the hate-mail and death threats they were getting. That's why most of the reoccurring female roles on the show have been older, motherly type characters for the last ten seasons. It's not just actresses on the show they go after either, at one convention some nutjob fan tried to have Jensen Ackles' wife arrested by calling the police and reporting her as a prostitute working the hotel.
 
It's a shame that this type of shit happens. We end up with 40 year old actors who still have act like teenagers because their characters aren't allowed to grow. It would have been interesting to see them have families, raise kids, see if they can do better than their dad, etc.
Sorry for being off-topic, although I wish Trek went that way too, show human characters act like human beings, etc. I mean we had to wait until the final season of TNG to see Beverly Crusher and Picard admit that they had a thing.
 
Miller said:
It's a shame that this type of shit happens. We end up with 40 year old actors who still have act like teenagers because their characters aren't allowed to grow. It would have been interesting to see them have families, raise kids, see if they can do better than their dad, etc.
Sorry for being off-topic, although I wish Trek went that way too, show human characters act like human beings, etc. I mean we had to wait until the final season of TNG to see Beverly Crusher and Picard admit that they had a thing.
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It's probably due to the format and structure of the shows, whenever I think of characters with actual developments in those regards it's usually just Worf and O'Brien who come to mind. With Worf you only get bits and pieces sporadically, but his character does have a lot of things last from episode to episode or show to show that get brought up and have lasting consequences. O'Brien maybe less so since his family seems like more of a plot device at times but he still counts.
 
I just watched the new RLM episode with more TNG reviews. It was fine, except for the brief moment of TDS they got. We often talk about how these kind of shows have given very odd expectations to autists like Cinema Robert, but I think Picard also set the bar too high for what a politician is supposed to be. They were sperging about how Trump isn't like Picard. Sure, you know who isn't like Picard either? Kirk. Kirk would have probably not interrupted Biden, but he would have arrested him right there and slept with the (female) moderator.

Speaking of Kirk:

Miller said:
It's a shame that this type of shit happens. We end up with 40 year old actors who still have act like teenagers because their characters aren't allowed to grow. It would have been interesting to see them have families, raise kids, see if they can do better than their dad, etc.
Sorry for being off-topic, although I wish Trek went that way too, show human characters act like human beings, etc. I mean we had to wait until the final season of TNG to see Beverly Crusher and Picard admit that they had a thing.
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Well, in Outlander, the characters do grow and have babies. And the problem isn't much the plot within, but the fact that the actors aren't married each other. Like, people do think that Sam and Caitriona are dating, but the studios manage their accounts so it's all secret and shit.

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Imagine if social media existed by the time of TOS or TNG. I guess people would be stalking Frakes and Marina Sirtis for EVIDENCE that they're secretly dating and trying to kill any random female Will was supposed to have sex with during each episode.
 
Miller said:
It's a shame that this type of shit happens. We end up with 40 year old actors who still have act like teenagers because their characters aren't allowed to grow. It would have been interesting to see them have families, raise kids, see if they can do better than their dad, etc.
Sorry for being off-topic, although I wish Trek went that way too, show human characters act like human beings, etc. I mean we had to wait until the final season of TNG to see Beverly Crusher and Picard admit that they had a thing.
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Literally this.

Ironically that is what made DS9 the crown jewel of trek that they did allow character growth and change.

And in my opinion, what killed Voyager. You didn't need ongoing complicated political plots for that show, but you did need to have ongoing character arcs. All the best parts of the show (the Doctor, 7, Tores/Paris) were when they did that.

I mean you have a ship that is now forced to become a generational ship which it was never designed to be. What would that do to the crew? How would you handle an almost obligation to date someone to make kids to staff the ship? Would some arrangements not be allowed because the interspecies coupling is infertile? Make plans & efforts to avoid inbreeding? What about crew coming and going? Would someone bring aboard an alien spouse? Would you allow someone to leave? Recruit new members? What if there was a gender imbalance?

You could easily pull 7 years worth of B-plot material from these questions and built up a rapid fanbase of shippers making the show really memorable.

Instead we got... TNG lite.
 
Flexo said:
Ironically that is what made DS9 the crown jewel of trek that they did allow character growth and change.

And in my opinion, what killed Voyager. You didn't need ongoing complicated political plots for that show, but you did need to have ongoing character arcs. All the best parts of the show (the Doctor, 7, Tores/Paris) were when they did that.

I mean you have a ship that is now forced to become a generational ship which it was never designed to be. What would that do to the crew? How would you handle an almost obligation to date someone to make kids to staff the ship? Would some arrangements not be allowed because the interspecies coupling is infertile? Make plans & efforts to avoid inbreeding? What about crew coming and going? Would someone bring aboard an alien spouse? Would you allow someone to leave? Recruit new members? What if there was a gender imbalance?

You could easily pull 7 years worth of B-plot material from these questions and built up a rapid fanbase of shippers making the show really memorable.
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When you compare the situation on Voyager from the first episode to the situation in the last, you quickly realize that nothing ever really changed on the ship in a cultural/social sense.
The Maquis is assimilated into the crew with only a few token mentions of conflict here and there, the crew remains utterly "Starfleet", they never change to adapt to their situation. I mean, they don't have to throw out the Prime Directive and pillage their way across the Delta Quadrant, but showing that they run into persistent issues that they can't overcome with adhering to Federation guidelines would be a nice plotline.
DS9 is about Starfleet/the Federation being forced to face war and how that clashes with their usual diplomatic and pacifist approach. Voyager could have been about a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant desperately trying to retain their guidelines as they are constantly forced to reevaluate them.

There are a few token "Woe is us, for we have to decide whether we will honor the Prime Directive" moments, but nothing with lasting effect.
The show could have dived deeper into the Maquis-Starfleet conflict, at times, it might have been interesting to run into a problem where Starfleet guidelines offer nothing to deal with a situation, so it's the Maquis that has to save the day. Stuff like that.
 
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Tasty Tatty said:
I just watched the new RLM episode with more TNG reviews. It was fine, except for the brief moment of TDS they got. We often talk about how these kind of shows have given very odd expectations to autists like Cinema Robert, but I think Picard also set the bar too high for what a politician is supposed to be. They were sperging about how Trump isn't like Picard. Sure, you know who isn't like Picard either? Kirk. Kirk would have probably not interrupted Biden, but he would have arrested him right there and slept with the (female) moderator.
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Yeah, that kind of irked me during the video to. There has never been a "Picard" during a presidential (or really any political) debate. The debate format doesn't even allow people to go on 15 min diatribes about how "moral" they should be against cardboard cut outs who are not allowed to argue back effectively.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
I just watched the new RLM episode with more TNG reviews. It was fine, except for the brief moment of TDS they got. We often talk about how these kind of shows have given very odd expectations to autists like Cinema Robert, but I think Picard also set the bar too high for what a politician is supposed to be. They were sperging about how Trump isn't like Picard. Sure, you know who isn't like Picard either? Kirk. Kirk would have probably not interrupted Biden, but he would have arrested him right there and slept with the (female) moderator.
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Yeah, we can't compare real-life politicians to a diplomat like Jean-Luc Picard, the world isn't the same either. That said, there is a perfect copy of the Jay-El version:

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Chilson said:
Yeah, that kind of irked me during the video to. There has never been a "Picard" during a presidential (or really any political) debate. The debate format doesn't even allow people to go on 15 min diatribes about how "moral" they should be against cardboard cut outs who are not allowed to argue back effectively.
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Miller said:
Yeah, we can't compare real-life politicians to a diplomat like Jean-Luc Picard, the world isn't the same either. That said, there is a perfect copy of the Jay-El version:

View attachment 1686058
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Even politicians who are liked by liberals aren't like Picard. Do you imagine Picard entering the Klingon planet dressed like one of them and dancing one of their dances like the Cancuck they all love?
 
Flexo said:
"no relationships"
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I thought that was just a thing in Japan with idols* - they may be unable to date by contract - but I guess you can't show healthy relationships anywhere else in this crazy modern world.

*(so all the loner fans could imagine they have a shot with them)
 
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