Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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ditto said:
Just saw season 3 Fascination and they heavily imply that Keiko is having a close and secret relationship with a coworker while she's spending the year travelling Bajor. O'Brien is horny af but Keiko just wants to sleep.

For a war vetran who is overworked, tortured, cloned and killed on the regular, he deserves better.
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Cakehole a shit.
Somebody heard they wanted Trek to go Hard SF and just got "atomic bitch Japanese wife" as the result.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
I thought that was just a thing in Japan with idols* - they may be unable to date by contract - but I guess you can't show healthy relationships anywhere else in this crazy modern world.

*(so all the loner fans could imagine they have a shot with them)
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I see a similar developement in western media, like what we have in Japan with those turbo-sperg fans of certain bands or manga or whatever, who flip their shit, when a girl they like (3D or otherwise) turns out to be in a relationship.

Similarly, western media is now catering to people that obsess over shipping (SW is a good example) and to people who managed to go so liberal, they wrapped around the bend and became more puritan than even the most religious zealot. But unlike a christian zealot, who thinks sex (preferably joyless and done in shame) is okay for procreation, these folks now believe sex is okay only under certain specific conditions:
Most likely it's homosexual intercourse or involves a tranny, maybe it's okay when it's cross-racial (but only when it combines someone from the top of the oppression olympics stack with someone from the bottom). Romance is pretty much dead, too. Characters, who share no chemnistry whatsoever, are hooked up with one another for a cheap shot like Rose kissing Finn in TLJ or the protagonist has to stay single for some stupid reason - in case of a female character, she'll act like a total bitch towards anyone else and in case of a male, he simply won't be worthy of someone's affection (or he'll be a comedic relief horndog that gets shut up by a STRONK WOMYN).
Under no circumstances should there be white offspring, it seems.

The effect might turn out a lot like in Japan, but from a completely different direction:
Instead of manga-otaku incels that tear apart their entire collection when some googly-eyed moeblob turns out to have been romanitcally involved with someone, in the west we'll have angry wineaunts and dangerhairs shrieking when the ship doesn't match their expectations.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
I hate how puritanical and anti-romance the West seems to be in Current Year. Romance in pre-JJ Star Trek is probably "offensive" to the "woke". At least Japan is spared that insanity for now, even if there's otaku there who get jealous of relationships.
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To my best understanding, modern western media considers romance for female characters fubar, cause it would mean they aren't "strong" - and "being strong" here means being a callous, grating, aloof bitch. By being romantically involved with someone, they become vulnerable and have to meet someone on eye to eye for a partnership on equal ground. That is seen as a weakness, how can the woman show off her strength if she's not doing so to be superior to someone else (preferably a man)?

The weird thing is that these movies still sometimes go through the motions of having one character end up in some sort of relationship with another character, but that's usually completely devoid of romance. It's mechanical and sterile, like you can literally see the script and that huge dotted line around the page saying "Romance goes here" and the writer merely scribbling in "Characters A and B are now in a relationship". It's surreal and (again) Rose and Finn from SW are a perfect example. It was so awkward, it was dropped by JJ in the next movie.

"Romance" may only happen when it follows a very specific set of circumstances that I alluded to earlier on, but even then, it seems to be a pretty formulaic and generic way to express a rather bland """romance""" between cardboard cutout stereotypes of a certain minority.

But frankly, I am almost glad they haven't really tried in ST lately. Better have no romance than what these people would produce.
I assume it's going to change soon, when the new BBQ characters get introduced... I mean, how can you show off their sexuality if you do not force it down the audience's throat constantly? Therefore, we can already look forward to relationship shenanigans popping up in STD S3.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
To my best understanding, modern western media considers romance for female characters fubar, cause it would mean they aren't "strong" - and "being strong" here means being a callous, grating, aloof bitch. By being romantically involved with someone, they become vulnerable and have to meet someone on eye to eye for a partnership on equal ground. That is seen as a weakness, how can the woman show off her strength if she's not doing so to be superior to someone else (preferably a man)?
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Which is ironic because often in the "macho" stories with the strong alpha males, they were seen as incomplete without love and it was the romance which made them more engaging to the audience. It was almost a cliche line for the villain in a the final showdown to declare "love has made you weak" to the hero.

There's something ironic that many feminist works today seem to be going in the opposite direction of the classics.

RomanesEuntDomus said:
But frankly, I am almost glad they haven't really tried in ST lately. Better have no romance than what these people would produce.
I assume it's going to change soon, when the new BBQ characters get introduced... I mean, how can you show off their sexuality if you do not force it down the audience's throat constantly? Therefore, we can already look forward to relationship shenanigans popping up in STD S3.
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Well, IIRC the only romances nuTrek had:
Mary Sue twin / Romulan (from Picard)
Gay guys (from Disc)
Michael / Klingon sleeper agent (from Disc)

Hmmm...

You know I'm starting to think Starfleet is having problems with all of it's wars because nobody's fucking any more to create new soldiers.
 
Flexo said:
Which is ironic because often in the "macho" stories with the strong alpha males, they were seen as incomplete without love and it was the romance which made them more engaging to the audience. It was almost a cliche line for the villain in a the final showdown to declare "love has made you weak" to the hero.

There's something ironic that many feminist works today seem to be going in the opposite direction of the classics.
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There's a funny parallel between some past villain going "your love has made you weak" then and feminists believing the same thing today.

I guess early protagonists getting a cute girl in the end (or throughout the story) sometimes was due to some sort of self-insert stuff. Like in Indiana Jones, you want to be this suave, handsome adventurer that travels the world, fights the baddies, gets the treasure and the girl in the end.
But then there's also movies like Predator, where the female isn't so much a love interest, as it is someone that is protected.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this kind of plot (especially for a straight forward action movie), even though female characters are a bit more like a plot device than actual characters. Of course, while not outright necessary, movies and TV shows still can profit from fleshing out their female characters... man... here's a weird example of that: Ripley (as the protagonist) and Higgs (as sort of a secondary character and sorta-kinda love interest?) in Aliens as sort of a role reversal. Or Terminator with Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese. Two fleshed out characters, a romance plot and a tragic end. Funny how those movies get overlooked by feminists, huh?
If you listen to the angry feminists, you'd think any movie that came out before Captain Marvel only featured female characters that would have been at home in a 50s sci-fi schlock movie. You know: Blonde woman that only serves as eyecandy and the moment the monster pops up, she shrieks and faints.
I bet there's blog entries or articles written by feminists on why romance is toxic, but I genuinely fear to look for that, cause I know it would only piss me off.


Ultimately, what I can say about all this can be summed up into two sentences:
"Male gaze" and "objectification" gave us iconic movies in great number. Wokeism gave us Ghostbusters 2016 and Captain Marvel.
 
Chilson said:
Yeah, that kind of irked me during the video to. There has never been a "Picard" during a presidential (or really any political) debate. The debate format doesn't even allow people to go on 15 min diatribes about how "moral" they should be against cardboard cut outs who are not allowed to argue back effectively.
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Picard would suck at politics. He hates children, is bald, and would lose the important Borgophobic vote over Hughgate.

His hobbies include moral grandstanding (doesn't really work when the Klingon Chancellor is free to interrupt you and call you gay) and being a sex tourist on Risa.

Don't let Picard destroy YOUR family by trying to reason with gigantic crystalline space monsters.

This ad brought to you by the Captain Jellico for Federation President SpacePAC

chainofcommandparttwo005.jpg
 
Sexual Chocolate said:
Picard would suck at politics. He hates children, is bald, and would lose the important Borgophobic vote over Hughgate.

His hobbies include moral grandstanding (doesn't really work when the Klingon Chancellor is free to interrupt you and call you gay) and being a sex tourist on Risa.

Don't let Picard destroy YOUR family by trying to reason with gigantic crystalline space monsters.

This ad brought to you by the Captain Jellico for Federation President SpacePAC

View attachment 1688531
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Don't forget he also experienced going back in time (via Q) and kissing some 18-year old girl. (That was awkward to watch.)

Jellico was the best damn captain in Starfleet for that mission!
 
XYZpdq said:
Cakehole a shit.
Somebody heard they wanted Trek to go Hard SF and just got "atomic bitch Japanese wife" as the result.
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I just saw Data's Day yesterday. It's the first episode where Keiko shows up. And she's already being a bitch. Cancelling the wedding on a whim and causing O'Brien some stress. I forgot that this literally is our introduction to her. What a bitch. Also the weeb in me should like her, but the weeb knows that's a CHINESE WOMAN! NISE-MONOOOOOOOOO DA! ("It's a faaaaaaaaake")

I also think she's probably the most stereotypical character in the show. Everything about her is Japanese. She's a botanist, she has bonsai, every food she prepares is Japanese. She even has flashback to a tea ceremony with he grandparent. I'm surprised she hasn't got a camera with her at all time.
 
rabo said:
I forgot that this literally is our introduction to her. What a bitch. Also the weeb in me should like her, but the weeb knows that's a CHINESE WOMAN! NISE-MONOOOOOOOOO DA! ("It's a faaaaaaaaake")


I also think she's probably the most stereotypical character in the show. Everything about her is Japanese. She's a botanist, she has bonsai, every food she prepares is Japanese. She even has flashback to a tea ceremony with he grandparent. I'm surprised she hasn't got a camera with her at all time.
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Maybe that's the reason why she's so bad. The actress was furious she was cast as a Jap, so she played her like a bitch to make all Japs look bad.
 
rabo said:
I also think she's probably the most stereotypical character in the show. Everything about her is Japanese. She's a botanist, she has bonsai, every food she prepares is Japanese. She even has flashback to a tea ceremony with he grandparent. I'm surprised she hasn't got a camera with her at all time.
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And did you SEE her wedding dress?
Normal:
sd1r3560jlp11.jpg


Keiko:
279px-Bridal_Keiko_Full.png

It's like My Fair Lady meets the 80's meets Phantom Menace.
 
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