Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Emperor Julian said:
Well the utopian setting is mostly framework for the fun space adventure setting with some of Rodenburys hopes for mankind which is accidently aspirational. He wasnt really a sociologist or economist so I doubt he put much thought into it. I get the impression the solution is largely technological and sociological, simular to how things are genrally more pleasent now than they are 100 years ago. It's ultimatly a whiggish attitude but since it's fiction its going to be.

1/2 the writtings a total mess at the best of times and the federations comparitive economic, tech or military strength is all over the place in differant circumstances.It's pretty inevitable since a utopain society wouldnt generate Imuch of plot, it's probably why most of the plots focus on an outside issue.

Also changs assement is self serving projection, the Empire is imperialistic ergo their opponent must be.
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Chang's interpretation is, but it is "objective" insofar as a fiction source can be objective that the Federation does colonize planets and gets into conflicts with other races, which is why I refer to other episodes. Sometimes, it's a big Empire and it creates a protracted conflict that we saw in TOS or DS9. Moreover, Star Trek in general wasn't strictly Roddenberry himself, but the massive collaboration of dozens of producers like Coon, Fontana, Berman, Pillar, and Braga, so I don't say it's Roddenberry's vision per se.

EDIT: Forgot to mention part of what makes Star Trek/Star Wars fun is overthinking it and trying to make disparate stories connect to each other. It's also why I will not make the effort to make ST: D or Picard connect with good shows; I don't care and those shows suck anyways.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Chang's interpretatin is, but it is "objective" insofar as a fiction source can be objective that the Federation does colonize planets and gets into conflicts with other races, which is why I refer to other episodes. Sometimes, it's a big Empire and it creates a protracted conflict that we saw in TOS or DS9. Moreover, Star Trek in general wasn't strictly Roddenberry himself, but the massive collaboration of dozens of producers like Coon, Fontana, Berman, Pillar, and Braga, so I don't say it's Roddenberry's vision per se.
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ehhhhh, it's mostly a centralized federation with utopian living standards and superb civil rights which is used as a ground point for fun space adventures with morally upright protagonists, most attempts to deconstruct it are pretty flawed because youre talking about hundreds of episodes by differant writters producers at differant stages of their careers nd the need for some sort of conflict to push the plot forward. Sure If you really go through the show with fine comb looking for examples of some time Kirk called spock a space jew you can deconstruct the federationas an evil empire in the same sense you can argue the jedi are wrong or Thanos 'plan isnt dumb a or somesuch. But the truth is it's a real stretch and doesnt mesh well with the franchises in question. Hence why last jedi and Picard are dogshit-someone somewhere took a 14 year old reddits posters intepretation and ran with it and now we've got a bog standard misrable gritty snoozefest.
 
Emperor Julian said:
ehhhhh, it's mostly a centralized federation with utopian living standards and superb civil rights which is used as a ground point for fun space adventures with morally upright protagonists, most attempts to deconstruct it are pretty flawed because youre talking about hundreds of episodes by differant writters producers at differant stages of their careers nd the need for some sort of conflict to push the plot forward. Sure If you really go through the show with fine comb looking for examples of some time Kirk called spock a space jew you can deconstruct the federationas an evil empire in the same sense you can argue the jedi are wrong or Thanos 'plan isnt dumb a or somesuch. But the truth is it's a real stretch and doesnt mesh well with the franchises in question. Hence why last jedi and Picard are dogshit-someone somewhere took a 14 year old reddits posters intepretation and ran with it.
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I didn't say the Federation was evil. I implied that it was not utopian and in many cases, it's a wonder that it works as well as it does based on what's shown on the screen.
 
Flexo said:
Ummm... quark's didn't exist until Gene was dead. (Gene died in '91 and DS9 was on air in '93.)

Btw I recommend "trek nation" sometime. Dunno how much I agree with it but it has some interesting POVs in it.

(Btw, I like capitalism)
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You're correct, I got my dates mixed up and thought DS9 came on earlier and that Gene died in 93.
 
ditto said:
Beltram is a wierd case because I think he can act, but chose not to. But most of the timeChakotay was like a step dad or substitute teacher always deferring to momma Janeway.
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He was probably just very unenthused and maybe even pissed about how his character was written. The bloke they brought on to advise them on American Indian customs for Chakotay's character was a known fraud. So of course all of Chakotay's American Indian moments in the show were blatant, shitty stereotypes.

Just speaking about him as a first officer though, pretty much all of the first officers from that period in Star Trek at least ended up very basic and bland. Riker and imo even Kira became pretty boring as their show's went along.
 
AnOminous said:
They're often accused of being anti-Semitic stereotypes, and while it is certain that elements of this were deliberately thrown in (often by Jews involved in the show), the broader implication of the Ferengi is they implicate our own modern society.
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I'd argue that antisemitism and anticapitalism are more or less the same thing; both rooted in envy of people who are more successful.

That's how you can take a far-right antisemetic film and turn it into something completely acceptably left-wing by making the villains' noses smaller.
 
Tookie said:
Not really. A Kelpien retard who was born in a nebula surrounded by dilithium was trapped in a holodeck his entire life and when he screams he makes all the dilithium in the galaxy explode. That's it. That's the whole thing. It's nonsensical NuWho-style fairy tale bullshit.

I mean, at least it didn't involve Michael Burnham causing it so that's a plus. I can honestly say I did not expect that so points for that too.
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Wouldn't Barclay jerking off in the holodeck in TNG have for sure destroyed the galaxy somehow then.

I caught a few minutes of that Lower Decks at a friend's house and I think I'm gonna have to go down one friend, goddamn she wouldn't shut up about how great it is and goddamn was it infuriatingly not funny. Like 15 jokes one after the other and none of them were the least bit amusing. Space, the final frontier, man's urge to explore and wonder at strange new worlds, nah fuck you Gene Roddenberry lame masturbation jokes and contrived sitcom situations with terrible timing and delivery are the future.
 
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draggs said:
Wouldn't Barclay jerking off in the holodeck in TNG have for sure destroyed the galaxy somehow then.

I caught a few minutes of that Lower Decks at a friend's house and I think I'm gonna have to go down one friend, goddamn she wouldn't shut up about how great it is and goddamn was it infuriatingly not funny. Like 15 jokes one after the other and none of them were the least bit amusing. Space, the final frontier, man's urge to explore and wonder at strange new worlds, nah fuck you Gene Roddenberry lame masturbation jokes and contrived sitcom situations with terrible timing and delivery are the future.
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Is that black chick as terrible a character as I think?
Her entire personality seems to ooze the phrase "It doesn't matter if she's insufferable and obnoxious if she's black, female and QUIRKAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
Is that black chick as terrible a character as I think?
Her entire personality seems to ooze the phrase "It doesn't matter if she's insufferable and obnoxious if she's black, female and QUIRKAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"
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From the 5 minutes I watched, very much yes she is that terrible
 
Which sucks because GalaxyQuest and Futurama (and to a lesser extent the Orville) prove that Star Trek is ripe for comedy. You just have to lean into the possibilities.

Like imagine if the captain was a deadpan serious type. Oh but when meeting the alien of the week what he thought was a polite gesture was a proposition in their culture and now he has to deal with trying to get out of a marriage without causing a war.

Heck you could make it a running gag where the captain is the opposite of Kirk, but he has a kirk-like reputation because of everyone's assumptions about his mishaps.

Or even just an episode about trying to manage crew quarters when several of the crew have vastly different biological needs.

Plenty of ideas without the main character being an insufferable jackass.
 
Rebel Wilson said:
Posting here to say I regularly troll Jammer's comment sections with gender critical and pro-orville shitposts.
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I took a look at it one of the latest comment threads and it seems to be full of people discussing Discovery as it's something worth discussing in detail? It reads like r/startrek.
RomanesEuntDomus said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MLwKFGjE2zY
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This is my pick for the most redpilled star trek episode. The best part is when Neelix finds out first hand that they really do commit more crimes. There's also that anti abortion episode in Voyager.
 
I'm a pretty big Star Trek fan, but Star Trek to me is basically TOS, TNG and the original 10 movies. Once the movies got silly toward the end my interest started to wane and as I got older I had less free time to watch it all. I checked out Picard finally and watched the first few episodes. Lads, what in the fuck did I just watch?
 
Never Scored said:
I'm a pretty big Star Trek fan, but Star Trek to me is basically TOS, TNG and the original 10 movies. Once the movies got silly toward the end my interest started to wane and as I got older I had less free time to watch it all. I checked out Picard finally and watched the first few episodes. Lads, what in the fuck did I just watch?
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A character assassination aimed at one of TVs most iconic characters, entirely motivated by an almost primal hatred for anything beloved by old fans.
 
Never Scored said:
Lads, what in the fuck did I just watch?
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A dirty jew sodomizing a senile old man, while ripping-off the proverbial afterbirth of a plot of the Mass Effect franchise(which in turn was ripping-off Babylon 5), in a sad and pathetic attempt to emulate BSG 2003, hopping that it would bring him lots schekels and the continued pop-culture relevancy of the dead horse formerly known as Star Trek.
 
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