Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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I watched the fourth episode last night where Picard goes to meet the Romulan Jedi, and gets one to take with him on his quest to rescue Buffy the Romulan Slayer from the Romulan Death Star, and then they all took off in the Millennium Falcon together.

My wife thinks they're trying to appeal to women more.
That's the goal. They think that if they hire writers from the CW girl teen drama shows, women will watch Star Trek. They've replaced escapism, wonder, space exploration and sci-fi with soap opera clichés, girl power fantasy and people crying in every episode. Kurtzman is the worst thing that could have happened to Trek.
 
That's the goal. They think that if they hire writers from the CW girl teen drama shows, women will watch Star Trek. They've replaced escapism, wonder, space exploration and sci-fi with soap opera clichés, girl power fantasy and people crying in every episode. Kurtzman is the worst thing that could have happened to Trek.
And they call this "making the show more inclusive" or "giving the show a broader appeal". fml.
 
Enterprise already did it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vO3Z2yeElvk
You all are such hacks! (The writers, not you, @Stab You in the Back)
What the fuck is wrong with the STD writers? Who wants this?
I've been going back and watching Enterprise and it's like art compared to STD. This is a very good example.
Maybe next they will have an episode where the characters jack off all over the holodeck (I know it doesn't exist yet but it doesn't fucking matter) and the camera will zoom in on the cum stained floor while they point blank talk about how everyone does it. Wouldn't that be fucking hilarious and like totally star trek? Isn't that a great joke???
 
Maybe next they will have an episode where the characters jack off all over the holodeck (I know it doesn't exist yet but it doesn't fucking matter) and the camera will zoom in on the cum stained floor while they point blank talk about how everyone does it. Wouldn't that be fucking hilarious and like totally star trek? Isn't that a great joke???
Sounds like something Reginald Barclay would do.
 
Sounds like something Reginald Barclay would do.

nah, old barcley was way to socially handicapped for that, he couldn't even talk normally about normal stuff with other people. he's the guy the would blow a load into holo-troi while getting rimmed by holo-crusher and still be smart enough to not leave any trace. maybe even make holo-wesley watch for kicks like some dudes these days who are into netorare.

He was probably just very unenthused and maybe even pissed about how his character was written. The bloke they brought on to advise them on American Indian customs for Chakotay's character was a known fraud. So of course all of Chakotay's American Indian moments in the show were blatant, shitty stereotypes.

didn't he try to get fired at some point after they did nothing with his character and after that he stopped giving a shit?
 
ive been making trekkie memes, mostly ones with sulu cause i hate takei.

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What the fuck is wrong with the STD writers? Who wants this?
I've been going back and watching Enterprise and it's like art compared to STD. This is a very good example.
Maybe next they will have an episode where the characters jack off all over the holodeck (I know it doesn't exist yet but it doesn't fucking matter) and the camera will zoom in on the cum stained floor while they point blank talk about how everyone does it. Wouldn't that be fucking hilarious and like totally star trek? Isn't that a great joke???
Nah, but I could totally see them making a joke, most likely in Lower Decks, where someone makes a joke about another character having "Holo-Dates" or something and how the floor needs to be wiped afterwards.

Then again, STD and STP have no restraint, so they might go for gross-out humor. No one knows, really.
 
This all sounds like making up for Joleen's piss poor active that oozed so much emotions they kinda went "She had emotions all along, it was planned!"

While yes, Humans irritate Vulcans they never acted so overtly annoyed and curt about it as much as Joleen did. I can imagine many early take trying to direct her to be colder and then eventually just giving up to get their damn shots.

Until her, Tuvok was the most nagging Vulcan in the series but he still managed to come off as impassionate and logical even while being pitted against the irritation tsunami that is Neelix. (Except that one time where he choked him like a bitch on the holodeck.)

so how would you portray "cunt" and "no emotion" at the same time? in a way that not only us nerds get it, but normie tv watchers as well. and without either a) have vulcans be literal cunts everybody hates or b) have them show up constantly to lowkey convey that sentiment to the viewer over time. it was probably the opposite, doing a good spock/tuvok impression but it wasn't enough.

all in all I don't remember her really being bad, or it simply never bothered me since vulkcan/human relationship was different back then and she's the first vulkan female as part of the ensemble (and good luck if your only other comparison is prime kirstie alley and kim cattrall).
add to that the first seasons always being rough, imo it kinda worked out in the end, intentionally or not. certainly cared more about her character than the asian or the navigator travis whatshisname.

there's also this tidbit from star trek II:
Saavik cries during Spock's funeral. Meyer said that during filming someone asked him, "'Are you going to let her do that?' And I said, 'Yeah', and they said, 'But Vulcans don't cry,' and I said, 'Well, that's what makes this such an interesting Vulcan.'" The character's emotional outbursts can be partly explained by the fact that Saavik was described as of mixed Vulcan-Romulan heritage in the script, though no indication is given on film.
wouldn't put it past them to basically just re-use the character in all but name, especially with the plot going possibly going that direction as @Tookie mentioned
(I'm also still salty we never got a S5 where shran joins the crew. imagine based jeffrey combs full blast for a whole season, possibly more)

She honestly came off a total bitch dumping him and just added one more reason why I wanted her off the show. The writers/network really fucked Jenifer Lien over.

in the end neelix got the last laugh, imagine what kind of devastation a guy that makes a klingon women ask for seconds leaves behind.
but yeah, the writers fucked a lot of shit up that could've been gold.

Nothing against Ethan Phillips, when the man is given the material he can make Neelix shine but so often the writers seemed intent on screwing him up (like the "survival expert" getting someone killed in a survival situation). I actually like the idea that Neelix was a cheerful, happy-go-lucky guy because he had seen some serious shit on the edge of survival in his life and being on Voyager was like winning the lottery and he was just so happy to have even the most minor role (ship's cook) on board because it was such a step up from his old life. The problem is, we needed to then see him "switch back" to that hard edge role during those times when Voyager was like his old life (stranded on a planet - year of hell, etc). It would have really made him a compelling character if you suddenly saw the cheerful morale officer suddenly switch over to a cold hard-ass that could make Garak shiver when the situation called for it.

this. like a lot of the early stuff from voyager they either were stupid or never elaborated on. ocampa as a concept don't really make much sense, and neelix was apparently a drifter for years before voyager picked him up, never to be mentioned again. half the crew being marquis makes zero difference after season 1.
I mentioned it before lot of pages ago, but towards the end neelix was flanderized to be the funny guy to tuvok's straight man, and I think that's what annoys people so much. there's nothing wrong with being star trek's jarjar binks, but most people can only take so much. now imagine neelix going full suder if need be and fucking up hirogen in the two-parter.

She's ranted and raved and been wrong about this multiple other times, this is just a sampling.

>she
 

This all sounds like making up for Joleen's piss poor active that oozed so much emotions they kinda went "She had emotions all along, it was planned!"

While yes, Humans irritate Vulcans they never acted so overtly annoyed and curt about it as much as Joleen did. I can imagine many early take trying to direct her to be colder and then eventually just giving up to get their damn shots.

Until her, Tuvok was the most nagging Vulcan in the series but he still managed to come off as impassionate and logical even while being pitted against the irritation tsunami that is Neelix. (Except that one time where he choked him like a bitch on the holodeck.)
You can't really compare T'Pol and Tuvok, they are from different generations of vulcans.
I thought Jolene did a great job throughout the show, as the character started as a typical vulcan who saw the humans as an inferior race, and she learned to be more tolerant with the help of Archer, Trip and also Phlox.
That said, Vulcans didn't really hate the humans, like Soval said in a later episode of ENT, they were scared of them because they used to be like the humans.
 
They really know no shame, do they?
Is it just me, or is Burnham getting fatter, too?

That said, Vulcans didn't really hate the humans, like Soval said in a later episode of ENT, they were scared of them because they used to be like the humans.
I think humanity also really puts many questions into their minds regarding their own culture.
Vulcans, afaik, suppressed their emotions in order to move on as a species and I would assume that this means that they came up with a reasoning, that it's impossible to reach warp-capabilities without doing so, cause technologically and culturally, they deem it impossible to invent fission and thereafter fusion without either becoming like the Vulcans or going extinct in a large nuclear war. Suddenly, there are humans, who somehow out of the ashes of a global war invented warp drives.
In any logical mind this would raise at least these two questions: 1) Does that mean Vulcans in the past were even more savage than the Humans? and 2) Humanity went through hell and came back stronger. What does that mean for their future?

This might lead to an unhealthy mix of inferiority (ie: Vulcans without logic are worse than humans) and paranoia (if they can make this kind of progress during a war, what will they do during peacetimes, what will they be capable of and what will they do when this peacetime ends?)

The relation between Vulcans and Humans is very interesting and something that could have been explored further in a prequel series. We got STD instead.
And even though it's a bit a prospos of nothing, but who greenlit the title "Star Trek Discovery"? Weren't they aware that the acronym would be really fucking unfortunate. Maybe it was the last true Trekkie on board production that did this to troll the show? What the hell.
 
Well, I powered through the rest of Picard last night. I won't lie and say I hated every single scene, I think Riker got off pretty easy, being given a pretty idylic, non-cucked post-Starfleet life and getting his moment leading an armada against the Romulans, but it's like 90% shit 10% "That scene was OK, I guess." I think the worst offender was the little tool that fixes everything if you use your imagination and they never explain it. Even in TOS there would have been some corny explanation for how it generates power. That in particular stands out to me above all else as an example of how this was not very Star Trekky.

I bet if you count it, like, a good 20% of the scenes in the entire series include someone crying.
 
worst offender was the little tool that fixes everything if you use your imagination and they never explain it
So, they stole the sonic screwdriver?
That sequence was part of the reshoot. He wasn't supposed to be there. Admiral Sheer-Fucking-Hubris was leading the fleet.
Why would they want to give her a scene to make her look cool?
Oh right, she was supposed to be cool and amazing even in the scene where she dropped F-bombs on Picard... (:_(
 
Nothing is cooler than a strong confident woman who puts a powerful man in his place.
Was Admiral Hubris really in the wrong though? She didn't want to help the Romulans because they're a hostile empire, which this show proves by having them act like total assholes to the one guy that tried to help them.

To change the subject to GOOD Star Trek, has anyone noticed that the crazy Admiral trope evolved from legit crazy admirals like Decker, the reverse aging guy on bath salts, and the entire admiralty board in TNG season 1 to frustrated bureaucrats that want to be more hawkish?

-Satie wanted to uncover all possible links to the Romulans and while she went overboard, three episodes later in Mind's Eye, Geordi nearly assassinated a Klingon governor because of Romulan fuckery.
-Maxwell (he fits the trope) was concerned about a Cardassian invasion which happened years later when the Council and the Cardassians drew arbitrary lines in the Badlands to create the DMZ and the proxy war that followed. Cal Hudson is effectively another Benjamin Maxwell.
-Pressman went against the Treaty of Algeron by inventing the phasic cloak because he thought that treaty was stupid. And Picard himself witnessed 6 years of Romulan fuckery first hand, but could say with a straight face that treaty was signed in good faith.
-Leyton wanted a national security state so that he could prepare them for the Dominion War, which was the right idea because a few years later, they did have to fight the Dominion and nearly lost the war.

For contrast, look at a good admiral like Nechayev. In Journey's End, she was the middleman between Picard and the Council and tried to lobby the Council to not resettle the Navajo and she does more or less the same thing in The Maquis with Sisko. The audience calls her Bitchayev for her trouble even though she didn't actually do anything wrong or illegal. Dougherty in Insurrection, despite being an actual crazy Admiral, technically was working under the Federation Council, which is plausible as the Federation is perfectly fine relocating people to make their lives easier. The job of an Admiral is actually very disempowering in Star Trek, which is why Kirk turned into an out-of-touch old man in TMP. A good Admiral is a glorified messenger. A bad one is one who takes initiative and makes command decisions.

Yes, the hawk Admirals did break the law, but they also had foresight. Why? Maxwell said it, "Wait six month until the bureaucrats sitting around reading reports, trying to figure out what to do. They don't know what's going on out here." Which we see in later Rogue Admiral characters because they keep hitting the wall when trying to explain to the Federation Council realpolitick.
 
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Why would they want to give her a scene to make her look cool?
Oh right, she was supposed to be cool and amazing even in the scene where she dropped F-bombs on Picard... (:_(
Exactly. You have to remember that to them, these Admiral Clancy (Hubris), Mirror Georgiou and Romulan Cersei are "badass" characters, even if they go against everything Star Trek stands for.

She didn't want to help the Romulans because they're a hostile empire
Not really, it's because she didn't want to start another PR nightmare between Starfleet and the members of the Federation after that ridiculous interview of Jay-El in the pilot episode.
Also friendly reminder that by the end of the season, the show proved that the Zhat Vash were right all along and that the Federation shouldn't have lifted the synth ban because those androids were (and still are) a threat to the entire galaxy.
 
this. like a lot of the early stuff from voyager they either were stupid or never elaborated on. ocampa as a concept don't really make much sense, and neelix was apparently a drifter for years before voyager picked him up, never to be mentioned again. half the crew being marquis makes zero difference after season 1.
I mentioned it before lot of pages ago, but towards the end neelix was flanderized to be the funny guy to tuvok's straight man, and I think that's what annoys people so much. there's nothing wrong with being star trek's jarjar binks, but most people can only take so much. now imagine neelix going full suder if need be and fucking up hirogen in the two-parter.
Yeah, there was nothing wrong with Voyager that couldn't be fixed by them sticking to their freakin' premise! And Garak proved that you could do a happy-go-lucky badass. They wouldn't have needed to make Neelix a copy to pull him off. For one, Garak always kept a smile and was polite even while killing (or drugged up, see Empok Nor). When Neelix's switch gets flipped, they could have him visibly change moods - even outfits.

I mean hell, can you just imagine him and Chakotay having regular holodeck sessions where they fought in war games just to keep their skills sharp? In some ways when you think about it, those two should have been friends more than Neelix and Tuvok.

Hold on... *squints* Is that Zoe of Firefly as one of the aliens?

That somehow makes this worse!
 
Was Admiral Hubris really in the wrong though? She didn't want to help the Romulans because they're a hostile empire, which this show proves by having them act like total assholes to the one guy that tried to help them.

This I take it is the paradox of Nu Trek. Since everyone sucks, racism looks pretty reasonable.
 
I mean hell, can you just imagine him and Chakotay having regular holodeck sessions where they fought in war games just to keep their skills sharp? In some ways when you think about it, those two should have been friends more than Neelix and Tuvok.
"Are there explosions in Kadis Kott? Then I'm not interested!"

 
I mean hell, can you just imagine him and Chakotay having regular holodeck sessions where they fought in war games just to keep their skills sharp? In some ways when you think about it, those two should have been friends more than Neelix and Tuvok.

bloody hell, now you made me miss the chakotay/neelix buddy cop & survival thriller episodes we never got.
 
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