Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Captain Syrup]

the first (and only one I care about) Klingon retcon.

When you take away the blackface, they all look like Jason Mamoa.

 

[naaaaiiiiillllll!!!]

I know there are alot of arguments about TNG seasons 1-2 being bad and should be skipped, but after learning/knowing/loving the characters, they become amazing. I just found this bit of old TNG where Troi walks into Worf and some side bitch making out and cried laughing.

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

I know there are alot of arguments about TNG seasons 1-2 being bad and should be skipped, but after learning/knowing/loving the characters, they become amazing. I just found this bit of old TNG where Troi walks into Worf and some side bitch making out and cried laughing.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-dycPifxptg

I completely forgot about that scene.

 

[horni]

It's also the one where Gul Dukat has to give Sisko a fireworks display. The plain weirdest moment in the whole of DS9.

I'm rewatching DS9 two episodes a week every Sunday and I just watched this (3x22). The fireworks from Dukat were very odd, but I am a hopeless DS9 fanboy and I didn't mind them much - a whimsical ending to a dream-like/oniric episode. Oddly fitting after the previous one, where Garak tortures Odo and The Dominion is cucking Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The fireworks from Dukat were very odd

This didn't really faze me. Dukat is doing what any real-life politician would do. It's a photo-op, costing him nothing. If this were the Romulans, it would be out-of-character. But I expect this sort of saccharine crap from Cardassians.

 

[los pepes]

This didn't really faze me, tbh.

Dukat is doing what any real-life politician would do. It's a photo-op, costing him nothing. If this were the Romulans, it would be out-of-character. But I expect this sort of saccharine crap from Cardassians.

I agree. First they deny, then when presented with undeniable proof, they coopt and pretend they are a happy part of this historic discovery.

 

[Kerr Avon]

It's somewhat ironic to think Shatner started out as a stage actor, while Leonard Nimoy started out as mainly playing thugs. James Doohan was on the Howdy Doody Show. You might have seen DeForrest Kelley in old Western shows and movies, like Bonanza and Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (for some reason he was in three different versions of this maybe just from being good at it).

He was far from the only Star Trek star who showed up on Westerns. Bonanza has a lot of them. Did you know Ricardo Montalban showed up on it? So did both Leonard Nimoy and DeForrest Kelley.

De Kelley played an Doctor in the Virginian , and Nimoy played one of his patients. My favorite Shatner ham was his appearance in Kung Fu.

 

[Flexo]

Yeah, but... Is TAS considered canon in any amount? I think for the most part, we like to pretend it never happened. It's... Bad.

Yesteryear where they go to Vulcan and Spock's past was generally considered Canon because it was so good. And maybe the Harry Mudd episode because he was a fan favorite. Officially that was literally it.

There really was no reason why that finale had to take place in season 7. They couldn't redress an Enterprise set for the Titan and have it take place in-universe present?

SFDebris' idea was that Admiral Riker (explaining the age) was getting reading to induct the 1 millionth (or thousand, some number) world into the federation and was studying Archer's birth of fed speech for inspiration.

It's so elegant, obvious, and would have been the perfect close to that era of Trek It's actually not that surprising the numbnutts missed that solution.

TAS isn't worth dismissing outright like that. For one thing Yesteryear is one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever written, and there's a fair amount of of decent episodes in there.

As for the bad episodes, you haven't lived until you've seen Kirk and Spock accidentally summon Satan, and then travel to the center of the galaxy where Kirk has an honest to god fucking wizard battle with the guy in charge of the Salem Witch Trials.

That sounds metal.

No joke, it is also a first draft of Star Trek 5.

Star Trek (TAS): The Magicks of Megas-tu

Star Trek Reviews

sfdebris.com

+1 to TAS being worthwhile.

Yes, it has a few really boring and terrible episodes, but the good episodes are on the same level as the best from seasons 1 & 2 from the original live action show. The Infiinite Vulcan and the Robert April episode are both quality Trek.

The Infinite Vulcan is not quality (all respects to Chekov who wrote it).

But the best part of TAS is that even when it is bad, it is so bonkers and visually interesting you're never really bored. The worst episode still has some entertainment value - even if unintentional.

To be fair, they killed him at like the second to last episode. It was a stupid death but I don't think they'd have done it if the series wasn't getting cancelled. Way smarter to keep him and T'Pol as a tense couple.

It was the finale. Troi and Riker comment on it.

Leave that stuff to the holodeck.

For every "City on the Edge of Forever", you have "Time's Arrow", "Wrongs Darker Than Day or Night", "Future's End", the one where amnesiac Archer and T'Pol were fucking (and no one cared).

Then again, fans point to "Timeless" as one of VOY's best. Looks like the batting average was skewed by having too many time travel stories.

Timeless was the 100th episode of voyager so they put actual effort into it.

Never much got into Enterprise. The one major memory I have regarding it is flipping through channels and coming upon what I thought was the ending to First Contact.
I was shocked shitless when Cochrane whipped out a shotty and blasted the Vulcan. Seriously unexpected.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xLuP_90sabY
For just a moment I thought I'd gone insane until the intro started.

I had the EXACT same experience.

Got me to sit still and watch the episode.

That was a horrible episode, and I can't understand the praise it received except maybe critics are nihilistic weirdos who yearn for death to release them from their sad, gay lives.

So the Enterprise finds a planet where people are dying of some kind of genetic disease, and decide "let evolution take its course, lol" and fly off, leaving them to watch their families die as they go extinct.

Till next week's exciting genocidal adventures, friends!

I GOT FAAAAIIITTHHH OF THE HEEEEAAARRTTT

Apparently this is "morally complex" and some other bullshit. Except it isn't, at all. We're told 12 million of them died in one year before the Enterprise arrived. They're an intelligent, sentient, civilized species that's capable of spaceflight, no doubt with a rich and unique cultural yadda yadda. And they're begging for help, which the Enterprise could easily supply.

The script tries to justify it by accusing the Valakians of a mild form of space racism, and has Phlox claiming they're an "evolutionary dead end". But I don't think that's even a scientific hypothesis. Evolution isn't a predetermined tech tree in a PC game, the only dead end they're facing is that they have an easily curable genetic disease that Phlox refuses to give them. Phlox thinks the less advanced species on the planet will flourish if the other guys all die. Well, how does he know? They could end up killing each other, or turn into space nazis, or any number of things.

It's like if they had a show where some African village is dying of drought and the "heroes" decide not to give them any water because "evolution, lol".

The same people who praised this sociopathic shitshow probably lose their minds at pandas going extinct because they don't feel like fucking, and thought Picard's decision not to permanently get rid of the Borg (who were a kind of anti-civilization responsible for the death or mutilation and enslavement of billions) was some kind of heroic moral flex.

SFDebris has a running theory that the Valekians eventually became the Breen, using their suits to survive, while the other race became the Pakleds.

It's entertaining how much of trek makes sense with this theory. (Like the galaxy quest theory.)

 

[Captain Syrup]

First they deny, then when presented with undeniable proof, they coopt and pretend they are a happy part of this historic discovery.

Cal Hudson had a line in S2 where he refered to Cardassians as "slick". They're good at the torture game; but also, the politics game.

A little reminiscent of modern dictators: Don't shout "allahu akbar". No communist ravings. Just wear a tie and praise the free market economy. All they had to do was act credulous.

It proved that the Federation is not equipped to deal with this sort of enemy.

Trovia: For a long time, it was referred to as the Cardassian Empire. This was changed to Cardassian Union (after it became a fleet carrier for the Dominion.) They don't see themselves as occupiers. They have always insisted that they are bringing culture to backward planets.

 

[Oats12345]

This isn't really supported by evidence. Sisko denounced the sanitized history of Vic Fontaine. He petitioned the writers to change the script.

"Far Beyond the Stars", which he directed. He got so deep into character, Benny's breakdown was legit.

It's hard to believe that Sisko's appreciation for African art wasn't at least inspired by Avery.

Siddig went public about Avery freezing him out, almost from day one. They were the only two 'actors of color' on the show. Siddig staged his stage name to "Alexander". Brooks, on the other hand, was increasingly vocal about addressing Ben Sisko's ancestors in-story. Siddig believed in the colorblind future that Gene envisioned. Looks like Avery had other ideas.

The cast and crew were required to address him as "Mister Brooks" on-set, which is eye-rolling. Brooks was a stage actor long before he stepped on a TV set, and that's just not how casts roll.

Hot take incoming: I have always maintained that Sisko is the least consistent actor to have ever played the Captain. It's not as though he is consistently awful, but he isn’t awfully consistent, either, and depending on whether you are catching him on a bad day, he either straps a rocket to the story or makes it dive-bomb.

The Shalka Doctor sure was a thing that happened... But he wasn't *that* bad. Especially compared to how shit the show has been for many years now... Especially in the Chinballs years)

And, I mean, Grant was ok enough that Moffat brought him back to be The Great Intelligence... And it wasn't even remotely close to the worst thing that Moffat ever did.


Isn't really supported by evidence? How do you respond to this clip then?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=u-5KSdpfWcI:31(I'm not talking about the guy commenting on it, although I don't disagree with him... I'm talking about the Brooks clip itself, I couldn't find it clean.)

I've already said here that Sisko's actions in "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang" were retarded and completely out of character for him compared to the entire rest of DS9 in particular, and that entire era of Trek as a whole. It's also completely ridiculous compared to real life, because Frank Sinatra (who Vic Fontaine was at least partially based on) was good friends with Sammy Davis Jr, and was fairly progressive (back when that was actually a good thing) about racial shit, especially for the time. But this is really the only time we ever see Sisko display such a retarded attitude about racism. (Benny Russell doesn't count. He's an entirely different character, and tbh he's justified... because unlike Sisko, Benny did actually have to deal with racism in his life..)

I've addressed this as well, even before just a paragraph up. The Benny Russell episodes (especially the second one) were a bit heavy handed, but I didn't mind them at the time. Of course, even the 90's, social justards like Beher had to suck themselves off occasionally. I'm just thankful that they mostly limited it to 2/3-ish episodes out of 176 of DS9.
Hey, we also got this funny joke out of it...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4
I'm not even offhand sure what you mean by "Sisko's appreciation of African art", even if that was a thing that I just forgot about DS9 (and hey, lets say that it is. I believe you) Why the fuck does it matter that a man, black or not, appreciates African art?

Also, I've literally heard no stories about issues between Siddig and Brooks. Again, would you like to share some evidence? If Brooks had a problem with Sidig, (a guy who, if I'm being honest, I didn't even realize was a "person of color" until I was much older), then I really do wonder what he thought about another actual black man joining the cast when Dorn did in season 4... Please share it all!


So he was a bit of a diva on set? This doesn't really surprise me (especially compared to his actions in recent years), nor is it particularly relevant to the discussion at hand. I don't see how him being full of himself makes him any more or less "woke".


Everything else before this, I could just dismiss as a simple disagreement... But this is literally just retarded. How can you call Sisko the "most inconsistent" captain when both Janeway and especially Archer exist?
I'll admit Sisko had his flaws, But Janeway acted completely different from episode to episode (depending on who was writing her at the time). She was literally shown to be on both sides of multiple similar issues throughout the course of the show, and yet we were still supposed to think she was correct every time, even though I would objectively say she was wrong a lot more often than a leader should be...

Even when Sisko did the 'wrong' thing, I would still say that he did it for the right reason more often than not, and we even occasionally see him somewhat regret his actions (I'm specifically talking about 'In the Pale Moonlight' even though yeah he does end up admitting that he can live with what he did.)
We NEVER see Janeway show a similar attitude. She always had a "because I said so" attitude. And I doubt she ever even regretted a thing.

And it is headcanon to me at least, that Archer had some form of major brain damage because of how randomly crazy he could be from episode to episode. I'm pretty sure the show even leaned into it near the end, especially with that mirror universe 2 parter.

TAS isn't worth dismissing outright like that. For one thing Yesteryear is one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever written, and there's a fair amount of of decent episodes in there.

As for the bad episodes, you haven't lived until you've seen Kirk and Spock accidentally summon Satan, and then travel to the center of the galaxy where Kirk has an honest to god fucking wizard battle with the guy in charge of the Salem Witch Trials.



In my opinion, Avery Brooks is an oldschool "racially conscious" actor. Something everyone used to consider woke before The Wokening began and really gave that term the baggage it deserves. Its hard to put my finger on why I still respect demagouges like Brooks, but I suppose it would have to be that he actually has the strength of his convictions in what he believes and seems to have done a fair amount of research on the topic to better educate his point of view.

For instance, Far Beyond the Stars was an unquestionably racially motivated episode, but all of the chracters in it were based on real science fiction authors of the era, and based on the actual discrimination that went on behind closed doors. They didn't make shit up or exaggerate or even demonize wiypipo all that much. Its blunt, but it tries to really explore the issues and actually humanizes the situation a great deal. Hence why even though I went in expecting that episode to be a massive pile of shit I still came out of it thinking its a great episode.

We can all agree that modern Wokesters clearly do not care about the racial messages or motivations behind any of their actions, and are just trying to pay lipservice to it to get ahead, shake some kind of white guilt on their conscience or just want free shit. Brooks is someone I would probably disagree with a great deal if I had a conversation with him, but I think it'd still be a fairly intellectual discussion instead of a bunch of bullshit buzzwords and canned marketing slogans.

Then again, maybe he is a wokester and just wisely keeps to himself. He seems smarter than that to me, but I admit I have no real proof of it.

I know these comments are a couple of days old. I always find these conversations about Avery Brooks interesting mostly because of different interpretations of him. Especially since he's one of the few trek actors who haven't acted like a retard these past couple of years.

Some say he's super work and some say he isn't. From what I can get sounds like he was consider very woke back in the 90s. But becuase SJWs have gone farther down the woke road. He sounds moderate now.

 

[Flexo]

I know these comments are a couple of days old. I always find these conversations about Avery Brooks interesting mostly because of different interpretations of him. Especially since he's one of the few trek actors who haven't acted like a retard these past couple of years.

Some say he's super work and some say he isn't. From what I can get sounds like he was consider very woke back in the 90s. But becuase SJWs have gone farther down the woke road. He sounds moderate now.

Also Brooks was born in 48. Jim crow ended in 65 (when he would have been 17).

There's a chance he actually saw shit and definitely had family who did. To me, older blacks and other minorities who actually lived through shit (even George Takei) get far more leeway and room to be woke-like.

If anything I'd say Brooks is probably explained by his actual life and experience compared to the modern woke who have become self-gaslit.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Also Brooks was born in 48. Jim crow ended in 65 (when he would have been 17).

There's a chance he actually saw shit and definitely had family who did. To me, older blacks and other minorities who actually lived through shit (even George Takei) get far more leeway and room to be woke-like.

If anything I'd say Brooks is probably explained by his actual life and experience compared to the modern woke who have become self-gaslit.

Takei deserves an asterisk for simping for the Democrats though. Fucking scummy to support the party that made sure he was personally incarcerated as a kid.

 

[Flexo]

Takei deserves an asterisk for simping for the Democrats though. Fucking scummy to support the party that made sure he was personally incarcerated as a kid.

No argument there.

During one panel he was talking about how one night he was going outside to the restroom and the camp shined a spotlight on him. At the young age he was, George thought they were lighting his way so he could see where he was going.

Not to downplay it, still scummy (even if the US had few options) but it is an apt lesson on how perspective can matter. If your brain can interpret a racist act into one of kindness, it could also interpret innocent acts into racism.

 

[Oats12345]

Takei deserves an asterisk for simping for the Democrats though. Fucking scummy to support the party that made sure he was personally incarcerated as a kid.

No argument there.

During one panel he was talking about how one night he was going outside to the restroom and the camp shined a spotlight on him. At the young age he was, George thought they were lighting his way so he could see where he was going.

Not to downplay it, still scummy (even if the US had few options) but it is an apt lesson on how perspective can matter. If your brain can interpret a racist act into one of kindness, it could also interpret innocent acts into racism.

I do find it scummy that he surpports the party that did that to him. Like the dems never distance themselves from Franklin Roosevelt and still praised the man to this day even comparing him to Biden.
So I awalys thought that was scummy of him. He even talks about how despite what happen to him when he was kid, he still loves the US. Yet praises the party that did that to him.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Nobody posted the image.

Spoiler: nsfw

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Nobody posted the image.

Spoiler: nsfw

View attachment 2060078

And suddenly I remember there being a scene with 7 of 9 naked as well. Because Q brought his teenage son aboard.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

And suddenly I remember there being a scene with 7 of 9 naked as well. Because Q brought his teenage son aboard.

He also created Star Trek: Discovery.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

He also created Star Trek: Discovery.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Le3m0wqaXH4

And then deleted ST: Picard.

 

[Captain Syrup]

And suddenly I remember there being a scene with 7 of 9 naked as well.

The actor who played Icheb had to flee offstage to hide his erection. True story.

There's no denying that sex sells, but the addition of Borg Kids always struck me as tone-deaf. They're chasing an adult audience while blatantly trying to cultivate a new audience for the next 30 years of fandom.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Too bad season 2 of Picard can’t be about Q Jr finding out about Icheb and correcting some shit.