Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Trig.Point said:
I've read that O'Hare was in a bad way when they brought him back in a guest role in season 3
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He was FUBAR long before that.

O'Hare supposedly had Bechterew's disease, along with visible signs if you recognize those. His vertebrae had already begun to fuse by the time he was cast on B5. That's why he was on loads of painkillers and sleeping pills. He also suffered from asthma. He had to give up tons of roles because of his poor health. (As a result of this, there were rumors swirling around about drugs. He got a lot of undeserved shit online, and Jerry Doyle poured fuel on that fire.)

"War Without End" was shot when O'Hare got in good enough shape to resume filming. He was on very strong meds, and the side effects showed.

Of course, the treatments were never entirely successful. He had visible tardive dyskinesia by '98 and gained plenty of weight.

If watch old convention videos, it's easy to see why he could have been a success. Sort of a marriage between Shatner's looks and Stewart's delivery:

 
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JamesFargo said:
He was FUBAR long before that.

O'Hare supposedly had Bechterew's disease, along with visible signs if you recognize those. His vertebrae had already begun to fuse by the time he was cast on B5. That's why he was on loads of painkillers and sleeping pills. He also suffered from asthma. He had to give up tons of roles because of his poor health. (As a result of this, there were rumors swirling around about drugs. He got a lot of undeserved shit online, and Jerry Doyle poured fuel on that fire.)

"War Without End" was shot when O'Hare got in good enough shape to resume filming. He was on very strong meds, and the side effects showed.

Of course, the treatments were never entirely successful. He had visible tardive dyskinesia by '98 and gained plenty of weight.

If watch old convention videos, it's easy to see why he could have been a success. Sort of a marriage between Shatner's looks and Stewart's delivery.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0pR5IuVptRw
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He could have been a household name im sure of it. I got a classic paragon/renegade Shepard vibe from him. Shame we'll never know.
 
XYZpdq said:
Firefly is cool as long as you haven't seen Outlaw Star
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Inara can't be easily transplanted into another show. She's sort of an Ambassador / honeypot / white hat con artist. She's alright.

Book is Giles. Simon is Wesley. Jaylee Fred. Jayne is Cordelia/Spike. Wash is Xander. Blue Hand docs are the Gentlemen.

Every writer has a repertory company in his head. Joss isn't skillful at casting them.
 
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Babylon 5 remains one of the few shows that can compete with TNG and DS9.
 
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Thomas Highway said:
Babylon 5 remains of the few shows that can compete with TNG and DS9.
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You could say that Trek had unfair advantages. Better FX budget, the Paramount lot, RSC actors. The acting on B5 is wildly uneven: the regulars are good. The villains of the week are dreadful.

Trek also benefits from a writer's room, whereas B5 is the work of one guy. And protection from editors is not always a good thing. There are scenes where characters stop and quote pop philosophy at each other. Sometimes it works:


And other times you get this:
SHERIDAN: That's why my father taught me to live each second as though it were the last moment of my life. He said, "If you love, love without reservation. If you fight, fight without fear." He called it "the way of the warrior."
TURHAN: The past tempts us, the present, confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away moment by moment, Iost in that vast, terrible in-between.
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For God's sake, man. Give me a chance to absorb your coffee table wisdom before dropping another truth bomb on me.

On the other hand, B5 had perks that Trek didn't have. The megacorps, for starters. Which gave us "commercial teeps" (Talia) and the riveting stuff with Edgars on Mars.
 
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B5 has its own charm, though. And it can hold itself on its own. I remember some normies watched it because it didn't have the "Star Trek"™ brand attached to it. I'm talking about decades ago, of course. Not everybody who enjoyed the occasional scifi show is a nerd.
 
JamesFargo said:
In hindsight, that's the moment where it dawned on the public that, "wait, these aren't people, these are archetypes ripped from other Whedon shows."

Morena (I can't be bothered to look up her name on the show) can't be easily transplanted into another show. She's sort of an ambassador / honeypot /"white hat" con artist. She's alright.

(I don't have a good screengrab of her rn, so here's one of Baltar's hoochies)

View attachment 2121608

Book is Giles. Simon is a poorly-written Wesley. The engineering chick is Fred, but homelier. (And sluttier.) Jayne is Cordelia/Spike. Wash is Xander. Blue Hand docs are the Gentlemen.

Every writer has a repertory company in his head. Joss isn't skillful at casting them. There's not much here you haven't seen done better.
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The thing I like about firefly is that it heavily reminds me of gundam. The show is basically following a band of ex Zeon soldiers trying to make a (mostly) honest living and not get fucked over by the federation. Mal was interesting to me because of what he'd been though and the struggle of moving on from that war. You dont typically see a character like him these days.

I think it is a legit good short series/movie that succeeded in spite of Whedon.
 
Somebody earlier mentioned B5 and a certain character in it waving. I'll agree that it's a lot better if you actually know *why* he's waving, (and I would never spoil that) but even totally stripped of context, it's still a fun little gif.
Vir-waves-2.gif
 
The absolute state of Trek when the thread devolves to B5 sperging and is actually better for it. :story:

Not that I mind; I rather have good show discussion than reminiscing on how bad ST:D is for X times.
 
To get a bit on track, as much as B5 has its positive traits and is legit good. I do think Ds9 is better then it every way


There is some bias in that I watched Ds9 first, but I found that the longer 7 seasons and dominion war in combination with the more natural sounding dialogue made it superior.

And as good as B5 is I dont think any character holds a candle to Garrek.

 
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JamesFargo said:
In hindsight, that's the moment where it dawned on the public that, "wait, these aren't people, these are archetypes ripped from other Whedon shows."

Morena (I can't be bothered to look up her name on the show) can't be easily transplanted into another show. She's sort of an ambassador / honeypot / "white hat" con artist. She's alright.

(I don't have a good screengrab of her rn, so here's one of Baltar's hoochies)

View attachment 2121608

Book is Giles. Simon is a poorly-written Wesley. The engineering chick is Fred, but homelier. (And sluttier.) Jayne is Cordelia/Spike. Wash is Xander. Blue Hand docs are the Gentlemen.

Every writer has a repertory company in his head. Joss isn't skillful at casting them. There's not much here you haven't seen done better.
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...and River is Buffy.
I used to like Firefly until I saw the Serenity movie. If this was what Whedon had in mind for the show then I'm glad it got cancelled.
 
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