Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Never underestimate the lunacy, fanaticism and useful idiotism of Luddites or how easy they're co-opted by the powers-that-be to control the unruly peasants. Especially the environmental and Malthusian Luddites who have little to no FTG if a significant portion of the human population dies off in order to return their "idyllic" tech free world.
 
Didn't Robert make people read by candlelight (which actually is bad for eyes)? If he's not big on electricity, he's not big on other forms of technology.
There is definitely electricity in that house. Or whatever is that they use in his time.

IMG_20210502_232549.png IMG_20210502_232639.png

Other images show some sort of technology around his property, so I guess -if they're his- he's fine with technology that helps his craft.

Which makes the whole fire thing just more ridiculous.

The only reason I can think of for them to make them die like they did, was to make the "time is the fire that burn us" line meaningful to Picard. Kill your darlings, guys.
 
You can easily tell. Soran's delivery is so over the top, and Picard is (literally) struck dumb by the power of wordplay.


I actually like the line, but in context, it was kept to make an impression on Picard just before we find out about his family's death. And I liked the line even before I even noticed this, so there is really no need for the plot to kill them by fire or in any way.
 
You can easily tell. Soran's delivery is so over the top, and Picard is (literally) struck dumb by the power of wordplay.

It honestly would have made more sense if Soran had hypnotic powers. Then you have that line about Soran belonging to the same race as Guinan. This is also needless, because the Nexus could have picked them up individually from different planets. I don't know, guys. I'm looking at this film from every angle, and it's moldy dick cheese.
Or just not have Soran at all. What if the Duras sisters was fucking around with chronotons to go back to the Klingon Civil War, but use too much and warp them and Enterprise D back to Enterprise B times? The D crew are busy trying to figure out what Lursa & B'Etor's goals are post Kithomer Accords (because only a few TOS cast members showed up, hence can't lean on TUC too much) while not mucking up the timeline. The B investigates the temporal anomaly and find the D. The B crew try to find out what happens in the future and/or try to steal D technology on Harriman's orders, but the D crew have to be extremely tight-lipped about everything, which engenders mistrust between the two crews. Eventually, Picard has to privately explain to Kirk Captain to Captain why they're in the past and tell him about the Duras sisters, but to act oblivious to the 23rd century Duras house as that would affect the timeline too much. Kirk persuades or pulls rank to get the B to follow up possible Duras leads in the D's place. Kirk finds the Duras sisters on the Klingon border, but they're a bit too late and the Duras Sisters are under escort. The B refuses to engage, but the D shows up as the cavalry and take out the Duras sisters. The movie ends with Kirk reporting that a UFO took out the Klingon escort fleet in an attempt to preserve the timeline.

Or better yet, modify the All Good Things script to have Kirk in it.
 
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It's true... As much as I like Malcolm McDowell, Generations would have been so much better if he just wasn't in it at all... But that isn't even counting how much that movie screwed the pooch for the one and only meeting of Kirk and Picard we ever got. What a waste.

But you know... A certain other Trek lead *also* managed to meet Captain Kirk... And it actually managed to be legendary, even still among the best Trek episodes of all time...
Sisko-meets-Kirk.jpg

Badass.

I'm just saying, if you're still asking yourself "Kirk or Picard?" You're asking the wrong question, and the answer still is (And given the current state of Trek will always be) "The Sisko."
 
It's true... As much as I like Malcolm McDowell, Generations would have been so much better if he just wasn't in it at all...
He and Hamill had better chemistry in Wing Commander. Which is weird, because McDowell and Stewart worked together in the RNC. They go back sixty years.

It wasn't going to be McDowell's finest hour, no matter what he did. He turned down the role four times.
 
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I think Generations is a poor movie, with only one redeeming feature.

PICARD: Kirk, let's forget the science fiction trappings and admit what's going on here. We both made it to Heaven somehow. But millions of people are going to die. I don't know them, never will, and they'll never hear about us. But I want to say "No thanks," and go and save them because it is the right thing to do.

KIRK: You put it that way, how can I say no?
 
Rene and Robert were killed in a fire because Patrick Stewart demanded the writers give Picard more to do. Patrick wanted to do "real acting". I can't remember if what happened was directly his suggestion, but it would not have happened if not for his demands.
That's even worse than Shatner wanting Uhura off the bridge and bitching whenever anyone but him got lines.
 
That's even worse than Shatner wanting Uhura off the bridge and bitching whenever anyone but him got lines.
Shatner was impossible. He made his castmates out to be prima donnas, trying to be more than what they were. The truth is, they objected to losing what little time they had.
 
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Shatner was impossible. He publicly made his castmates out to be prina donnas, pretending to be more than what they were. The truth is rightly objected to losing what little time they had ("That's a good line, but it's not mine" - every leading man ever), or making them look like idiots. ("I know this ship like the back o' me hand!" *bonk*)

If Gene is our answer to Terry Nation, then Bill is Tom Baker: There is no reasoning with this guy. You basically have to meet him head on (e.g. Louise Jameson, Leonard Nimoy) or be trampled on.
But we already knew Bill T. Kirkner was based and alphapilled
 
I've just watched Star Trek: Generations, the last Star Trek movie I haven't seen yet. It has been picked apart so many times and criticized by even its own screenwriters that I expected absolute borefest, but to my surprise... I kinda enjoyed it. There are many dumb ideas and Kirk's appearance and meeting with Picard are underwhelming, but still I wasn't bored and I've seen way worse Star Trek productions (as long as we still count nu-Trek as "Star Trek").
I think it was in "The Captains" where William Shatner described the scene where he's dying: "my character has seen so much in his life, so how is he going to react to his death? with a surprise: oh my". Cheesy, but kinda worked for me.
Also there is this one scene: when Picard is in the Nexus (some sort of heaven) and he can hug Rene, his nephew, who died in a fire. Would you like to meet again your loved ones who are not with you anymore? This got me a bit emotional to be honest, fortunately I have another episode of my beloved DS9 to calm down, I'm currently on season four and the next episode is "The Visi-" oh shit
I'll still defend Generations as "not as bad as the other TNG movies". I'll also still defend Kirk's death scene as appropriate for the character. Just stop and think about how they'd make that death scene today. It would be in a huge space battle with hundreds of ships flying around and blowing up everywhere, while there's also some big ground battle going on at the same time for no reason, and KIrk would do le epic last stand on the bridge of the Enterprise 2812-G while the ship falls apart around him, probably while saying some cheap one-liner like "Time's up" or worse, screaming the badguy's name as the ship crashes into the bad guy's WH40k boss superdreadnaught worldship.

It would be flashy, overdramatic, and it would suck. In retrospect I'm fine with Kirk giving his life to save some civilization he's never heard of to stop some random madman he's never met before. It shows his heroism and how he's willing to do what's right even though he has no personal stake in the matter. His reaction to his own death cinches it too. I dunno if its true that Shatner thought of that all on his own or not but it works great.

My other major problem with the script (other than the contrivances surrounding Soran) is how Kirk upstages Picard. Kirk fries eggs and announces he wants to get laid, while Picard sputters about duty? I get it, this is like a meeting of Time Lords where the eldest is appalled at the new version. Ha ha. But Picard keeps shrinking in his presence, to the point where he is a non-entity by the end. The obvious thing to do is let Picard use his brain and his eloquence to disarm Soran while Kirk does all the punching.
Be honest though, does that scene not make perfect sense in retrospect given what's become of the TNG franchise, especially after Picard?

I've watched Generations a couple of times and I never really understood, if Soran wants to enter the Nexus so badly, why the fuck does he need to blow up suns? Why doesn't he just grab a shuttle and head straight into it?
There's a line in the movie actually where Picard and Data are in the Enterprise D's nonexistent Astrometrics Lab. Picard says this almost word for word, and Data says "every ship that has approached the ribbon is torn apart by the gravimetric field" which I guess just means it would be too dicey and there's a chance he could be killed before he gets close enough.

I'm willing to accept this line actually since the magnetic field of Earth protects everything on the surface from a lot of nasty space phenomena like solar radiation and shit and we have had to harden our real equipment and spacecraft just to leave the lower atmosphere for extended periods. I just wish it wasn't brushed over so quickly. I didn't even notice that line was there until the last time I saw the movie for Christ's sake.

Rene and Robert were killed in a fire because Patrick Stewart demanded the writers give Picard more to do. Patrick wanted to do "real acting". I can't remember if what happened was directly his suggestion, but it would not have happened if not for his demands.
And here we arrive at the smoking gun for why the TNG movies all sucked the big one.

I'll see your modern trailer and raise you a fan trailer:
 
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Insurrection and Nemesis, same thing there.
I would still argue that all of the later TNG movies are worse because they didn't even bother trying to plug up their own plot holes half the time. I suppose this does have the effect of making those problems less noticable as the movie doesn't call as much attention to them, but you can still draw a pretty straight downward line from the messy plot of Generations to the iffy plot of First Contact to the straight nonsense of Insurrection and Nemesis.
 
you can still draw a pretty straight downward line from the messy plot of Generations to the iffy plot of First Contact to the straight nonsense of Insurrection and Nemesis.
I feel like I should day something positive about Generations.

Kirk lost the best years of his life to Starfleet and you get the sense that he regrets it.

We don't see the woman on a horse, just a silhouette of her, which was a smart move. She represents another life; an idea.

In a way I feel bad that he didn't remain in the fantasy. It would be like yanking Pike out of his idyllic life and trapping him in the iron lung again.
 
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Rene and Robert were killed in a fire because Patrick Stewart demanded the writers give Picard more to do. Patrick wanted to do "real acting". I can't remember if what happened was directly his suggestion, but it would not have happened if not for his demands.
And yet instead of learning that Patrick Stewart needs to be kept in check as an actor (and kept away from writer/showrunner decisions), they gave him a whole new Star Trek show where he's both lead actor and executive producer.
 
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