Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Nick Gurs said:
They were Never the Space niggers and space sand niggers like CBS is stressing.
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Klingons have a culture. They have managed to develop art, literature, science. I mean, they are in space like everybody else.

There is a lot of "classical" Oriental influence in their culture. Wouldn't say Asian because that'd include Arabs, although there could be a few bits of them there.
 
JamesFargo said:
I would pay money to know the logic behind these casting decisions. VOY, ENT, DISCO....I can see these people "starring" in some crappy CBS crime show. Not a merchandising giant
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To be fair you could have the best actors ever and I dont think it would have mattered for those shows. The characters in VOY and ENT are a huge step down from TNG and DS9. In addition a lot of them are just bland. Like I dont think I could tell you a single thing about that Asian chick from ENT and I have watched every episode of Star Trek. Her and the other crew except maybe the captain and the Vulcan are just boring. Not much for any actor to do in that situation. In ENT and Voyager it seems like they didn't give a lot of those characters anything to do.

I do agree though that they seem like low budget actors.
 
Parallel Moon said:
In ENT and Voyager it seems like they didn't give a lot of those characters anything to do.
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Supposedly, Garrett Wang was told, "somebody's gotta be the Ensign."

In that time, Tom got promoted, hooked up with Torres, and started a family. Take his first scene and his last scene and Kim is exactly the same person doing exactly the same things.
 
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Tasty Tatty said:
Klingons have a culture. They have managed to develop art, literature, science. I mean, they are in space like everybody else.

There is a lot of "classical" Oriental influence in their culture. Wouldn't say Asian because that'd include Arabs, although there could be a few bits of them there.
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They've also shown familiarity with and admiration for Shakespeare, although that's a fairly common theme in Trek in general.
Nick Gurs said:
They were Never the Space niggers and space sand niggers like CBS is stressing.
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But they're violent and warlike, so what can they possibly be but a racist attack on Negroes?

Yet another of these SJW situations where if you see a violent, warlike race, and you see black people, maybe you are the fucking racist.
 
AnOminous said:
They've also shown familiarity with and admiration for Shakespeare, although that's a fairly common theme in Trek in general.
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My favorite is when Garak grasps the meaning behind Julius Caesar. A little too late, as it happens.
 
JamesFargo said:
Supposedly, Garrett Wang was cast because "somebody's gotta be the Ensign." That was Berman's excuse for why Kim was never promoted. In that time, Tom hooked up with Torres and had a kid, at least. Take his first scene and his last scene and Kim is exactly the same person doing exactly the same things.
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You forgot (or at least forgot to mention) that over the course of the show, Paris was demoted back down to Ensign for pissing Janeway off, and was stuck in the brig for 30 days as punishment over it. While dressing him down, Janeway says that she would have actually killed him if it had been necessary, because of what he did...

I just re-watched the episode "Thirty Days" before posting this, and I honestly couldn't even tell you that Janeway wasn't just being petty at Paris for disobeying her. I'm still not even convinced that he was really in the wrong in first place... I honestly think he had a point...
*AND YET*
Paris was still reinstated back to Lieutenant before the end of the show, and yet Janeway never considered promoting Ensign Kim, not even once. To quote Chuck, "Poor dumb Harry".
 
When the most noteworthy thing a character ever did was turning down sex with Seven of Nine, you know the writers had no clue what to do with the poor guy at any point throughout 7 seasons of runtime.

The Doctor went through an amazing character arc, had not a single bad episode centred around him and is easily one of the top 10 characters of ST in general.
Torres had a bit of a bland identity conflict thing going on, but at least there was something and her relationship with Paris was a nice touch to add a human element to the plot. Paris himself had a bit of an arc, nothing spectacular, but servicable. Neelix didn't do much, but he had his moments I think. Tuvok is en par with Spock in terms of iconic Vulcans if you ask me. He doesn't really have an arc, but I don't think he really needs one.

And then you have Chakotay, who is just sort of there on the bridge and Kim, who is so bland, you could cut him from the show and it would not change anything. It's a bit of a shame, I think both guys could have been good in their roles, if the writers had actually given them stuff to do.

Voyager had a unique chance to ask the questions:
"What is more important? To cling to Starfleet ideals, even if it means to lose the ship and crew? Or be more open minded, even if it clashes with the Prime Directive? What is the captain's highest priority? To keep to the rules of Starfleet or to keep her crew alive and safe?"

It's an interesting conflict that would play off of the Starfleet-Marquis dynamic and it could have been personified by Janeway and Chakotay... but as with most aspects of Voyager, it was an interesting idea that was sort of there in the beginning but was dropped within a few episodes of the first season in exchange for the tried, tested and somewhat boring Monster/Anomaly-of-the-week plotlines.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
When the most noteworthy thing a character ever did was turning down sex with Seven of Nine, you know the writers had no clue what to do with the poor guy at any point throughout 7 seasons of runtime.
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The writers knew how to deal with the character, they just literally hated Garett Wang so much because he was such a worthless pothead that the character never advanced at all during the series.
 
BIG BILL HELL'S said:
The writers knew how to deal with the character, they just literally hated Garett Wang so much because he was such a worthless pothead that the character never advanced at all during the series.
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Really, was that the reason? Never heard about that tbh. Would explain some things, though.
 
BIG BILL HELL'S said:
they just literally hated Garett Wang so much because he was such a worthless pothead
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Was he? I watched some promotional clips where Garret Wang was showing the visitors around the sets. He was very enthusiastic and excited, the polar opposite of his character in the show. I was under the impression he is a trekkie, happy to just be there - what did he do to make the writers cuck him out of interesting things to do in the show?
 
horni said:
what did he do to make the writers cuck him out of interesting things to do in the show?
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Wang was partying in Vegas and gorging on craft services. Braga made a veiled reference to his weight in the script.

Most of the men contributed nothing and spent days goofing off on the bridge with nothing to do. This is a recipe for a hostile set. No two ways about it.
 
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RomanesEuntDomus said:
Really, was that the reason? Never heard about that tbh. Would explain some things, though.
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It's true. When 7of9 was added to the show, originally they were going to fire Garret. Then they were afraid of being accused of racism, so they fired Jennifer Lien instead.

JamesFargo said:
Remember that Jennifer Lien was hired because she had a great rack. When she had her baby, her breasts shrank to normal size, and the execs got mad.
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IMDB says her son (also an actor) wasn't born until the year after Voyager went off the air.
 
AnOminous said:
They've also shown familiarity with and admiration for Shakespeare, although that's a fairly common theme in Trek in general.

But they're violent and warlike, so what can they possibly be but a racist attack on Negroes?

Yet another of these SJW situations where if you see a violent, warlike race, and you see black people, maybe you are the fucking racist.
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On the other hand there are the Next Gen episodes Birthright Part 1 and 2 about Worf finding peaceful Klingons and heroically teaching them to be violent. Apparently the episodes were directly inspired by the Malcolm X movie, which always makes me laugh.
 
Travoltron said:
Yes, Guinan was teased early on as being much more than she appeared to be. Q seemed to fear her and acted as if she was dangerous. We were teased little bits of information about her people.

Then Generations happened and shit all over it. The only other member of the her race, named here as the El-Aurians, is Soran. And he never showed any of that supposed fearsome power. He was just some long-lived guy.

I'm not sure if it's in the completed film or not, but it was explained that Guinan's powers are not something endemic to her race, but is something that she received from her contact with the Nexus.
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Not quite. One of Guinan's people showed up on DS9 (played by Prince Humperdink in fact) back at the start of 1994.
memory-alpha.fandom.com

Rivals (episode)

Quark feels threatened when a con artist arrives on the station and opens up a competing bar. Meanwhile, Chief O'Brien is determined to beat Doctor Bashir at racquetball. 1 Summary 1.1 Teaser 1.2 Act One 1.3 Act Two 1.4 Act Three 1.5 Act Four 1.6 Act Five 2 Memorable quotes 3 Background...
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Generations aired in theaters at the end of 1994.

There is nothing in the film about Guinan having any powers related to the Nexus. (There is a book where Q created the Nexus once because he was bored.)

EDIT: WTF IS THIS SHIT ON MEMORY ALPHA?????
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Michael Wade said:
The writing on Discovery and everything else these days has really made me appreciate the shatnerverse books more and more.


Im considering doing a retrospective on them. As all over the place as they are, I do get the sense that the writers actually know and give a semblance of a shit about the lore of star trek.


Plus Shatner's interview on them with conan is hilarious. https://youtube.com/watch?v=bawMXdBNc8M

View attachment 2147575
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I read up to "Preserver." They are... interesting though I can only really remember the first 3.

By far the best Picard/Kirk crossover is the novel "Federation." It would have been a bitch to adapt to a movie, but if they had pulled it off, Generations would have been remembered in the same breath as Wrath of Khan.
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Federation (novel)

At last, the long awaited novel featuring both famous crews of the starships Enterprise in an epic adventure that spans time and space. Captain Kirk and the crew of the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) are faced with their most challenging mission yet - rescuing renowned scientist Zefram Cochrane from...
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JamesFargo said:
He was in Night of the Comet. Which is .... kind of?..... science-fiction.

I would pay money to know the logic behind these casting decisions. VOY, ENT, DISCO....I can see these people "starring" in some crappy CBS crime show. Not a merchandising giant.
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RomanesEuntDomus said:
And then you have Chakotay, who is just sort of there on the bridge and Kim, who is so bland, you could cut him from the show and it would not change anything. It's a bit of a shame, I think both guys could have been good in their roles, if the writers had actually given them stuff to do.
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See: the 100th episode "timeless" where Wang & Beltran both got to act.

Star Trek (Voy): Timeless

Star Trek Reviews
sfdebris.com
JamesFargo said:
That's weird, I must be thinking of some other show. Sorry. Maybe it will come back to me.
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You were thinking of 7 of 9. Jeri Ryan had just had her baby and that's why her breasts are so.... juicy in her first season.
 
i have watched Voyager end to end three times and I just... I honestly don’t really care about almost all of the crew. This is my fundamental problem with enjoying it. The characterisation was just lacklustre. You couldn’t make a VOY equivalent to Picard because honestly, who really cares about what happened to most of them afterwards?
 
Flexo said:
Not quite. One of Guinan's people showed up on DS9 (played by Prince Humperdink in fact) back at the start of 1994.
memory-alpha.fandom.com

Rivals (episode)

Quark feels threatened when a con artist arrives on the station and opens up a competing bar. Meanwhile, Chief O'Brien is determined to beat Doctor Bashir at racquetball. 1 Summary 1.1 Teaser 1.2 Act One 1.3 Act Two 1.4 Act Three 1.5 Act Four 1.6 Act Five 2 Memorable quotes 3 Background...
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com

Generations aired in theaters at the end of 1994.

There is nothing in the film about Guinan having any powers related to the Nexus.
Click to expand...
OK, so according to this timeline, Guinan hadn't been named as an El-Aurian yet. Then DS9 introduces a bit character as an "El Aurian", the first time the name was used. How was the audience supposed to know that this guy was from the same race as Guinan?

As to Guinan explaining she got her powers from the Nexus, this was in the comic adaptation (in a hilarious wall of text page), and I suspect it came from the original script.
Star Trek - Generations - 32.jpg
 
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