Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Michael Wade said:
Been a while, but despite contradicting first contact, Federation is pretty good.

I especially liked its take on Cochrane's past and what happened to him after his appearance in TOS. Gave me some good gundam vibes, but it's crossover element felt really lacking to me.

It's a fun read to see how both sides meet in the middle, but nobody from TOS and TNG really interacts aside from a brief engagement at the end
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The book was released before First Contact.

Hm. Now that I think about it... First Contact is about Cochrane and attacking cyborgs. Generations is about an anomaly that brings the two crews together. The first two TNG movies really are just that book split in two isn't it?
Michael Wade said:
Yes I remember I owned a copy of the first one. It was a fun, if rather absurd and lopsided crossover.


Most people hear about the TOS comic but there's also another comic and a full blown novel of all things on a TNG crossover.

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Have not read either yet, but its really crazy how they did it. The comic actually leads into the novel and ties into the first xmen TOS comic. Heard it was really good.


Then there's Star trek Vs Transfomers.

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It was pure genius the way they combined both the G1 and TOS animated series art styles. They did a bang up job.

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I love how it turns out start trek has their own version of the transformers that just straight up left the earth after the events of first contact.

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Kirk pilots a transformer copy of the enterprise.
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Then at the very end the crew even get their own suits (briefly).
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And starsceam tries to take over the Klingon empire. It's good shit.
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Only negative I can think of, is that the new chick transformers feel very out of place design wise. Otherwise it gives everything you could want.

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I think the only other cross company crossover left is TOS and the legion of superheros. Ill have to check that one out.





As far as crossovers within the franchise go. Im VERY fond of Q gambit

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Now Im not terribly fond of JJ trek. im sure most people here are not either, but this isn't really a JJ trek story.

It's a DS9-Q story in disguise!

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If you hated JJ Trek as much as I did at the time. you'll love this.

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What starts out as Q dicking around in Nu trek for giggles becomes a dark future story that explores a Nu universe Ds9. A future where kirk dies, the federation lost a war against the Klingon's and everybody is currently being enslaved by the dominion. They completely and utterly steal the show from JJ Nu trek, to the point where Kirk even complains at the end that he didn't do anything worthwhile.


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And of course the main villain is Gul Dukat. No subtlety or heroic quality's here unfortunately, just power mad madman time. It's still fucking beautiful.

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Also it begins and ends with a nice little Picard-Q scene.

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LET THEM DIE Q!



Really fantastic read. Probably gonna be better then all of the next Picard show unfortunately.
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Yesssssss! I LOVE Q gambit. Nice to find another man of culture as well on this board.
 
Flexo said:
Though it's growing harder as many works get locked behind "exclusivity" on different platforms.
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Frighteningly the majority of younger people I've talked to don't know how to pirate shit anymore. I've been pirating shit since I was in fucking high school, yet these kids are out of school working their first jobs and still don't know how to torrent. I fear for the next generation.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
To be honest, we don't know much about their economy except that they have now (somehow) infinite resources so nobody's lacking anymore. But that hasn't got rid of the sense of individuality people have. Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything. Nobody's forced to join Starfleet beyond your own parents. People have the same personal issues we all have right now: self doubt, insecurity, etc.

And we even have governments, something commies keep claiming shouldn't exist in a communism society. We really don't know how strict they are, but considering there are terrorist groups, there are some who disagree with what Starfleet and any ruling class are doing. People can go to jail for committing a crime, which is proof that independent thought it's still a thing.

It's very stupid to pretend ST is a communist society because you can't make that comparison with a society that doesn't have the same issues as we have. And even though they have solved poverty, people are still not equal. Kinda like the Scandinavian Paradox: women are very free there, but still make less than men and shit like that.
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The "somehow" is very easy to answer; they have innumerable colony worlds. Remember that the Federation is comprised of 150 member states, not member planets. The Feds set up so many colonies that they can't keep track of them all, which is why in early TNG, they kept running into colonies they didn't even know existed like in Angel One or The Ensigns of Command. Official colonies set up by the Feds wanted access to the interstellar, relatively tariff-free trade network and would exchange a planet's natural resources such as dilithium or self sealing stem bolts or tube grubs. In the 23rd century, the Federation was tied up competing with the Klingon Empire. Once the Empire fell into obsolesce, the Federation seized upon the power vacuum and expanded significantly. As a side effect, they started minor border wars with various minor powers such as the Tzenkethi, the Talarians, the Sheliak, and the Cardassians.

I speculated earlier in this thread that the Federation actually exiles their malcontents to these colonies by persuading them that if they don't like the way the Feds run things, they can self-govern themselves on their own planet. Which would explain why the Feds don't seem to care about their colonists all that much when poverty or Antifa take over a planet. You can have an Irish or Navajo ethnostate if you want, but don't expect the Feds to bail you out. If anything, the Feds might just make it that you end up on the wrong side of the border with an asinine treaty.

33:30
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
The "somehow" is very easy to answer; they have innumerable colony worlds. Remember that the Federation is comprised of 150 member states, not member planets. The Feds set up so many colonies that they can't keep track of them all, which is why in early TNG, they kept running into colonies they didn't even know existed like in Angel One or The Ensigns of Command. Official colonies set up by the Feds wanted access to the interstellar, relatively tariff-free trade network and would exchange a planet's natural resources such as dilithium or self sealing stem bolts or tube grubs. In the 23rd century, the Federation was tied up competing with the Klingon Empire. Once the Empire fell into obsolesce, the Federation seized upon the power vacuum and expanded significantly. As a side effect, they started minor border wars with various minor powers such as the Tzenkethi, the Talarians, the Sheliak, and the Cardassians.
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By "somehow" I meant through replicators and unlimited energy, but you are right too. Humanity is not more limited to the natural resources of earth either as they have other planets to exploit for whatever they need if they need it.

The fact that any human or any race that is a member of the Federation can simply take their shit out of any planet and settle wherever they want and live under their own rules is proof enough that this ain't a communist society in any way.

Truly communism in Star Trek are the borg and nothing else. Borgs absorb resources to add them to the collective, which is precisely what Cuba is doing to Venezuela and Bolivia. If they had the technology to put chips in people's brains, they would.
 
L50LasPak said:
Frighteningly the majority of younger people I've talked to don't know how to pirate shit anymore.
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Not enough seeds, too much malware. Similar to picking up prostitutes. Between the STDs and knives, it's not worth bothering with. If you can work a job you can pay the fee.
 
XYZpdq said:
git gud
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L50LasPak said:
Speak for yourself, I've run into no trouble with it unless I want something really obscure.
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I share porn all the time. I'm not made of money.

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Bashir: I'm sorry Vic, but you're gonna have to forgive him, he's having a hard time accepting her death.​
Quark: So am I, but you don't see me busting up the joint!​
Bashir: She wasn't your wife.​
Quark: She should have been!​
​
(DS9 07e01 Image in the Sand)​

Never change, Quark. Never change. ;)
 
Don't know where to put this, but since it kinda started with someone asking about other good SF shows on here and me remembering Space: Above and Beyond, looking for clips, I stumbled over a channel that has all the German dubbed episodes in a playlist on Youtube.
The video quality is pitiful, but damn, the show is even better than I remembered. I'm at the halfway point and there are so many cool ideas and aspects of the show that I just forgot about. Stuff like the androids that rebell against humanity, how humane the main characters are (suffering from the war and all that jazz), the conflicts between regular people and in-vitroes... The setting is so cool, feels so expansive... It feels like a really large world and I would have loved to see more.

I only watched the show once in the late 90s, since there were absolutely no re-runs ever. I forgot so much about the show, it's like I never really saw it before.
This show should never have been canceled, it really feels like it would have profitted a lot from the opportunity to explore its setting more.

FFS, not even re-runs of this show? Dreaming of Jeanie and Little House in the Prairie get endless reruns in Germany, but Space: Above and Beyond didn't even get one? What the fuck is wrong with people?
 
Getting to the end of Voyager soon, and I've definitely enjoyed it way way more than I expected. Also unexpected was how much I liked Neelix, I thought he was just this weird-goofy-cat-clown-alien but there was a lot more going on with him than I thought. He had some really good episodes, and the entire dynamic between him and Tuvok was great even if it was just because of clashing personalities. Their little moment at the end was really great.
I'll probably finish the series tonight, but overall I really liked it and it feels bad that it'll be over.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
FFS, not even re-runs of this show? Dreaming of Jeanie and Little House in the Prairie get endless reruns in Germany, but Space: Above and Beyond didn't even get one? What the fuck is wrong with people?
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Sometimes a channel/network would buy the exclusivity on the entire catalogue of a studio or production company just to stop their competitors and only air a few shows.
In my country, for decades the state-owned broadcasting group (France Télévisions) had the exclusivity on the entire Warner catalogue and shows like Babylon 5 never aired. Farscape for example aired on some obscure cable channel and a company was selling the DVDs at triple the price despite missing the original (english) audio and subtitles and releasing each season in several volumes. Star Trek was like that too, I remember having to import the DVD boxsets of Enterprise from Belgium because in my country they costed 130 euros (twice the price of a DVD boxset of a "normal" tv show).
 
I think it was me who asked about other good sci-fi shows (and thank you for the answers).
I think you guys still had it better: original Star Trek was considered "imperialistic propadanda" in my (post)soviet country and aired for the first time as late as the nineties. There is no love and no nostalgia for it in my country (contrary to Star Wars, which found its way to the cinemas and was extremely popular). I would even say that it is being ridiculed and used as a negative example of "how stupid sci-fi can be" (people expected serious sci-fi stories - and first Star Trek movie is kinda like that - and got a fun and sometimes campy adventure with sci-fi concepts thrown in).
Some episodes of the first season of TNG were aired on public tv during the first half of the nineties and that was it. Some years later first or first two seasons of DS9 aired around 10:00 AM or other weird hour. Then DS9 was picked up by a commercial tv station and they tried promote it, "Emissary" aired at 8:30 PM as a "today's hit film"... And it probably bombed hard, as the next episodes aired around 4:00 PM as a filler, nobody even wanted to buy commercials in that timeslot so you could watch episodes almost uninterrupted. Then it got moved to some less popular tv channel and they ended DS9 with season 5, on the biggest fucking cliffhanger in the entire series - I never watched seasons 6 and 7, hopefully I will do it now, when rewatching everything from start on Netflix.
All other shows, like Stargate, Babylon 5, Earth: Final Conflict, Star Trek: Voyager and so on aired on commercial stations I had no access to back then. When I got access to them eventually, all the shows moved to thematic channels you have to pay extra for, so now if something is not on Netflix, I will pirate it without hesitation.

One exception to this was Space: Above and Beyond, which aired in prime time and was popular. They advertised it as - take a guess - "way better than Star Trek!".


Related to the above: contrary to Star Wars, they never released (not to my knowledge) any Star Trek books in my country. Are there any that are a must-read?
 
horni said:
I would even say that it is being ridiculed and used as a negative example of "how stupid sci-fi can be" (people expected serious sci-fi stories - and first Star Trek movie is kinda like that - and got a fun and sometimes campy adventure with sci-fi concepts thrown in).
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iirc the idea that Trek is wannabe serious business SF Lit for semi-literate dummies is also a traditional complaint in the USA side of things from some hardcores back to TNG if not earlier
 
horni said:
I think it was me who asked about other good sci-fi shows (and thank you for the answers).
I think you guys still had it better: original Star Trek was considered "imperialistic propadanda" in my (post)soviet country and aired for the first time as late as the nineties. There is no love and no nostalgia for it in my country (contrary to Star Wars, which found its way to the cinemas and was extremely popular). I would even say that it is being ridiculed and used as a negative example of "how stupid sci-fi can be" (people expected serious sci-fi stories - and first Star Trek movie is kinda like that - and got a fun and sometimes campy adventure with sci-fi concepts thrown in).
Some episodes of the first season of TNG were aired on public tv during the first half of the nineties and that was it. Some years later first or first two seasons of DS9 aired around 10:00 AM or other weird hour. Then DS9 was picked up by a commercial tv station and they tried promote it, "Emissary" aired at 8:30 PM as a "today's hit film"... And it probably bombed hard, as the next episodes aired around 4:00 PM as a filler, nobody even wanted to buy commercials in that timeslot so you could watch episodes almost uninterrupted. Then it got moved to some less popular tv channel and they ended DS9 with season 5, on the biggest fucking cliffhanger in the entire series - I never watched seasons 6 and 7, hopefully I will do it now, when rewatching everything from start on Netflix.
All other shows, like Stargate, Babylon 5, Earth: Final Conflict, Star Trek: Voyager and so on aired on commercial stations I had no access to back then. When I got access to them eventually, all the shows moved to thematic channels you have to pay extra for, so now if something is not on Netflix, I will pirate it without hesitation.

One exception to this was Space: Above and Beyond, which aired in prime time and was popular. They advertised it as - take a guess - "way better than Star Trek!".


Related to the above: contrary to Star Wars, they never released (not to my knowledge) any Star Trek books in my country. Are there any that are a must-read?
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Now I wonder what a soviet style Sci-Fi movie would look like. They have a knack of cool designs, but I feel the necessity to toe a political line would be so strong, you'd not get much entertainment out of the writing, cause it is equally hamfisted with its political messages as... well... ST today.
 
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