Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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You know what character I gained the most respect for after rewatching DS9? Quark. Dude was actually rather badass for a Ferengi. And a damned decent dude at times while being an utter shit at others. I wanna look at some of Quark's best moments.

There was the time he turned the entire Klingon belief system into his bitch.
Seriously ballsy move. He called their entire concept of honor into question nearly exposing how farcical it could be at times. And what the fuck could they do about it? He was right. Their concept of honor allowed an asshole to legally rob a widow simply because their honor code doesn't give a fuck about evidence, which Quark provided in spades. But the moment an accusation of dishonorable conduct is made the system allows the evidence to be sidetepped with a demand for combat.
He forced them to either intervene or let him be killed and in so doing admit that their entire concept of honor was a sham.

Then how about the time he evoked the spirit of German WWI veteran Stefan Westmann when he talked about how humans will readily become the most vicious things you could ever meet under the wrong circumstances.

Quark-centric episodes were some of the consistently best in the entirety of DS9. Armin Shimerman got some of the best parts and lines in the entire series, and it was often shocking to see that someone like Quark could have profound wisdom. Much of the time Quark was treated as an example of someone not to listen to or emulate, but they did their best to show us that even this flawed man has something valuable to say.

Goddamn, old Trek was truly capable of being some quality TV.
 
Exceptionally Exceptional said:
Much of the time Quark was treated as an example of someone not to listen to or emulate, but they did their best to show us that even this flawed man has something valuable to say.
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In the beginning, he was just there to disrupt things. Something like half of S1 starts with him breaking the law, which attracts an alien presence to DS9.

The pivot happens in the S2 finale, right at the end. This episode establishes the Ferengi as a foil to the Vorta. As they say, "don't bullshit a bullshitter."
 
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Rewatching TNG right now, on “The Neutral Zone,” and found a new appreciation for this based king. Also I like how they’re not unilaterally critical of the rich guy; they let him show his value when he sees through the Romulan bullshit.
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
it was often shocking to see that someone like Quark could have profound wisdom
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One silly gremlin man dropping straight facts, undermining the whole self-righteousness of the Federation; how...? Just watch the free video ->


Armin Shimerman himself said something along the lines that DS9 was able to show "the undesirables" as someone who is still worthy of respect, despite having annoying/disgusting (to us) traits. This is the kind of healthy (in my opinion) tolerance Federation and Starfleet are trying to preach: you can be whoever you like, behave however you like (off duty), as long as you can follow the rules and be actually useful without bitching about stuff.
 
You know, I wouldn't mind seeing a Star Trek: Quark, if the correct people were running it.

No, I obviously don't want to see another fucking prequel. I want to see his life after his brother was retardedly made the Grand Nagus, and after the Federation left DS9.
 
Ij999 said:
Rewatching TNG right now, on “The Neutral Zone,” and found a new appreciation for this based king. Also I like how they’re not unilaterally critical of the rich guy
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I was surprised at how that episode turned out. Even in the eighties, TV was a bit more nuanced than now. And I don't just mean politically. Everyone has to either agree with the good guy or eat crow.
 
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I wouldn't want to see anything live action post DS9 that involved any of the main cast simply because Nog would be gone. Watching ancient ass Arimin Shimerman in the make up along with Max Grodenchik would suck without Aron Eisenberg.
 
White Devil said:
I wouldn't want to see anything live action post DS9 that involved any of the main cast simply because Nog would be gone. Watching ancient ass Arimin Shimerman in the make up along with Max Grodenchik would suck without Aron Eisenberg.
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I haven't watched that "What we left behind" documentary yet (not before I watch the last two seasons of DS9), but it seems many people who contributed to the creation of DS9 are thinking now they have paved the way for the woke parade and "fought a good fight". Some time ago I have checked some of the actors' twitter accounts - big mistake on my part.
 
horni said:
I haven't watched that "What we left behind" documentary yet
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It's self-congratulatory, as docs tend to be.

"Season Eight": annoyingly, it relies on Bajoran religious stuff.

Sequel novels: half-good and half-fanfic.
 
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horni said:
I haven't watched that "What we left behind" documentary yet (not before I watch the last two seasons of DS9), but it seems many people who contributed to the creation of DS9 are thinking now they have paved the way for the woke parade and "fought a good fight". Some time ago I have checked some of the actors' twitter accounts - big mistake on my part.
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Yeah a lot of those people have TDS and are lefties. I'm sorry you learned it the hard way
 
Ij999 said:
Due to Voyager’s episodic nature I don’t feel as though Insaneway developed in any tangible way. On the one hand she starts treating the Doctor more like a person and you think she may’ve developed, the next she’s comparing him to a replicator (way more “racist” than anything Archer said about Vulcans). Her opinion of the Maquis flips on a dime in one episode; you almost forget they’re not even a full Starfleet crew. One episode she’s torturing a former Starfleet officer and giving the boot to Chakotay, the next she’s happy and chipper. Tuvix asks everyone to remember his death - no one does.
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If only they had the guts to stick with Evil Janeway 100% of the time. Screw Tuvix and screw computers that think they're people.
 
JamesFargo said:
It is funny how the Doctor keeps standing up for the "rights" of artificial beings, only for said computers to start exterminating people. Every time.
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Well, there was that one time he managed to convince an AI controlled doomsday bomb that the war they were fighting was over and that to continue the attack would result in more of the people who built him, people he was built to serve and protect, being killed, which caused him to yeet the rest of the formation of AI bombs once their consensus was "Fuck the evidence, bomb the target!"

Or was that someone else? Haven't watched Voyager in forever.
 
horni said:
Armin Shimerman himself said something along the lines that DS9 was able to show "the undesirables" as someone who is still worthy of respect, despite having annoying/disgusting (to us) traits. This is the kind of healthy (in my opinion) tolerance Federation and Starfleet are trying to preach: you can be whoever you like, behave however you like (off duty), as long as you can follow the rules and be actually useful without bitching about stuff.
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Prima Facie, this is mostly good and also makes for great fiction. However, I would argue that, in the Western World, we are living with the consequences of showing a bit too much deference to the "outcasts", "undesirables" - the "Quarks" of the world. We weren't supposed to look to those people as an ideal or an example or, heaven help us, as leaders. Yet that is exactly what we are doing. The pendulum has swung way too far.
 
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