Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Starscreams Cape said:
You may complain about the colors, but you can't tell me that budgetary constraints making certain ships vague blobs of light or the shuttlecraft being larger than a starship in "The Doomsday Machine" weren't noticed even back then.
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The flaws are clearly visible, there's no arguing with that, but the 2009 CGI also has substantial flaws due to its age. CGI still struggles with things like fire, light reflecting white off of surfaces (this one in particular catches my eye because you can clearly see that this isn't how it works in real life), and fluid effects, and ten years ago it struggled with those things quite a bit worse. Remastered Star Trek looks like someone's Call of Duty Modern Warfare mod to my eyes, it just takes me out of the experience. At least the cheap and dated effects feel like they were made in the 1960s when the rest of the show was. The CGI effects look like they were made in, well, 2009.

The Remastered Star Wars movies have this same issue, where 1990s and early 2000s CGI has aged like milk. Though at least in that circumstance the original model work still looked pretty good and could mostly be cleaned up for its HD release.

Starscreams Cape said:
Having said that, I think they did it the right way in the Blu Ray DVD's by giving people a choice. I have nothing against the old effects, as I said they are in my blood. But I think the updates were done with care and in my opinion add something. They are not sacrilege to me at all.
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I suppose I'm a bit more hostile about it because I still remember the 2010-2013 period or so where the only way to see the show was with the new effects, to the point where I had to find a European set of the show to get the old effects. Still though if you go to watch the show on Netflix and such you're stuck with the new effects, and I've talked to people just getting into the show who are flat out unaware of the orignals.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
It at least hits Kirk and Picard meeting each other out of the park though.

The "So long as you sit in that chair you can make a difference" speech made the rest of the movie worthwhile.
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Generations succeeded in making Kirk look like a real man's man, and Picard look like a weak and kind of stupid ninny.

The Nexus could have literally sent Picard ANYWHERE, and at any time- he could have even asked to go back to right before his brother and nephew died in a fire to save them (supposedly a main thing weighing on his mind for all of this film, and quickly forgotten after, which he knew about the time... and he'd still have had more than enough time to stop the main problem of the rest of this film before it even started.) But nah, he asked to get sent back to like 5 minutes before Malcolm McDowell had totally succeeded in his plan, just with Kirk along to die for him.

It is 100% Picard's fault that Kirk died *under* a bridge, and not *on* one like he wanted to. (I'm not claiming credit for that observation, but it is still completely true.)

I don't even generally prefer TOS over TNG, (not counting the TOS movies, which are obviously and objectively a lot better.)- But if you're asking me: "Who's the best Trek Captain, Kirk or Picard?" Even before STP, I would have told you Kirk. But the real answer to that question still is and always has been "The Sisko."
 
JamesFargo said:
As long as your favorite isn't Archer, we can be friends.

Archer couldnt empty a bucket if the instructions were on the bottom.
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Archer was batshit insane, and only even got where he did in the first place because of nepotism. I'm not even inferring that, the show itself literally told us that (He wasn't even originally the captain in the Enterprise mirror universe episodes, which were actually pretty good, where the Zefram Cochrane and friends stole the Vulcans ships by shotgun, so Earth/The Terran Empire didn't ever need his father's warp engine.)

Here's something fun. I originally made this for the virgin/chad meme thread on here a while back, I think I even cross-posted it in this thread.
I know I cast Archer as "the chad", but it fits the meme.
vc.png
 
JamesFargo said:
It's still a topic of some debate. IIRC, Nimoy was pissed when he heard about the remaster, though he later came around. The Special Editions of Star Wars got more wrong than they did right. All those additions take some people out of the story.


We agree on that, at least. Each episode of Season 1 TNG cost $70k to remaster. Was anyone clamoring for that?
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At least the "special edition" of TOS did not add a "Jabba scene" or make Kirk fire second.
 
JamesFargo said:
We agree on that, at least. Each episode of Season 1 TNG cost $70k to remaster. Was anyone clamoring for that?
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back when TNG still had value they probably considered it an investment, pay big bucks now, easy remaster down the line when new formats come up.

UnKillShredDur said:
(He wasn't even originally the captain in the Enterprise mirror universe episodes, which were actually pretty good, where the Zefram Cochrane and friends stole the Vulcans ships by shotgun, so Earth/The Terran Empire didn't ever need his father's warp engine.)
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but the point of the mirror universe is that everything's the same - but eviiiiiiiiiiiil. it's a fun "what if" to the grounded main series but never made much sense given the stark contrast in how the timeline would've progressed. even more proof how shit nutrek is given it's hack writers made it a big point for "'member spock with a goatee?!?!?!"" nostalgiabait
 
Kornula said:
At least the "special edition" of TOS did not add a "Jabba scene" or make Kirk fire second.
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"Jabba, you're a wonderful human being."

Just in case you wondered if you changed, rather than Star Wars, when you look at it now and it's shit.
 
Kornula said:
At least the "special edition" of TOS did not add a "Jabba scene" or make Kirk fire second.
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I'll give a shout out to the only remastered episode I actually like, The Ultimate Computer, which replaced all of the special effects of the episode with objectively better shots. The originals were all stock footage from previous episodes that didn't fit and in some cases made no outright sense (a robot freighter that looks just like the Botany Bay. wut). Stuff like replacing the Woden robot freighter with one of the robot ships from TAS was pure retcon, but it worked.

Its a weird situation where the stuff they changed using the CGI isn't actually the problem like it was with the SW remasters, its just the CGI itself is old and primitive.
 
I want to weigh in on the movies, I know I'm late but whatever.

1 to 4 are awesome, the rest should have never happened.

1 is like a long version of the tv show. It OK, not super awesome but solid. And the 70's take on fashion and decor rock. The concepts are very Star Trekie in feel and resolution and I dig that.

2...well its Wrath. It's by far the best of all ST movies. Ricardo is perfect vs Shatner. Each trying to out ham the other and the death of Spock..pow right in the feelz. Seeing the reality of a battle for the first time shows that even in ST days life can be too short and really drives home the message.

3 is decent too. I don't know what hurt more Spock dying or seeing the Big E go down in flames. The impression DeForest did of Nimoy is pretty fun to watch. I like the whole Genesis planet idea even if it was a little wacky. The movie was a soild 7/10 in my book. I loved the lines Bones says as the E goes down. It tells us that the idea, the legacy is whats most important and not the hunk of metal attached to it.

4 is runner up. It was great to see a little comedy after the 2,3 drama punch. I know some shit on it because "muh serious bizzness" but ToS had lots of fun wacky episodes that didn't involve life or death situations. The Trouble with Tribbles is the first that springs to mind. It should of ended there...the ToS crew had done a lot of crazy shit and bad things to save Spock and saving the Earth was their ticket out of trouble. Let them sail off into the sunset as the heroes they all are. We didn't need to see an aging crew desperately attempt to stay relevant in 6 and 7.


All the rest were pretty much garbage IMHO. The last 2 ToS movies should never have been made, extra specially 6...fuck 6. Fuck it with a corn cob.

The TNG movies were all just junk...that's when the "sell ST to the normies with big action" idea started. They didn't think ST had enough legs to live on it own so they wanted to hook in the action junkies with the big lights and loud noises. Space battle galore, pew pew everywhere. Fuck them all. Of the good 4 movies only 2 really had a big battle in it and it was central to the plot and made sense in universe, everything else like killing off the Enterprise-D was just done to draw similarities to 2 and to get TNG fans to go ooooooh. Generations was boring and an insult to Kirk, First Contact was a bit better but still pretty lame and after that....yuck.

I don't think I need to talk about the abortion that is JJ-Trek. Fuck JJ-Trek. Fuck STD and double FUCK ST-Picard.
 
Sweet and Savoury said:
I want to weigh in on the movies, I know I'm late but whatever.

1 to 4 are awesome, the rest should have never happened.

1 is like a long version of the tv show. It OK, not super awesome but solid. And the 70's take on fashion and decor rock. The concepts are very Star Trekie in feel and resolution and I dig that.

2...well its Wrath. It's by far the best of all ST movies. Ricardo is perfect vs Shatner. Each trying to out ham the other and the death of Spock..pow right in the feelz. Seeing the reality of a battle for the first time shows that even in ST days life can be too short and really drives home the message.

3 is decent too. I don't know what hurt more Spock dying or seeing the Big E go down in flames. The impression DeForest did of Nimoy is pretty fun to watch. I like the whole Genesis planet idea even if it was a little wacky. The movie was a soild 7/10 in my book. I loved the lines Bones says as the E goes down. It tells us that the idea, the legacy is whats most important and not the hunk of metal attached to it.

4 is runner up. It was great to see a little comedy after the 2,3 drama punch. I know some shit on it because "muh serious bizzness" but ToS had lots of fun wacky episodes that didn't involve life or death situations. The Trouble with Tribbles is the first that springs to mind. It should of ended there...the ToS crew had done a lot of crazy shit and bad things to save Spock and saving the Earth was their ticket out of trouble. Let them sail off into the sunset as the heroes they all are. We didn't need to see an aging crew desperately attempt to stay relevant in 6 and 7.


All the rest were pretty much garbage IMHO. The last 2 ToS movies should never have been made, extra specially 6...fuck 6. Fuck it with a corn cob.

The TNG movies were all just junk...that's when the "sell ST to the normies with big action" idea started. They didn't think ST had enough legs to live on it own so they wanted to hook in the action junkies with the big lights and loud noises. Space battle galore, pew pew everywhere. Fuck them all. Of the good 4 movies only 2 really had a big battle in it and it was central to the plot and made sense in universe, everything else like killing off the Enterprise-D was just done to draw similarities to 2 and to get TNG fans to go ooooooh. Generations was boring and an insult to Kirk, First Contact was a bit better but still pretty lame and after that....yuck.

I don't think I need to talk about the abortion that is JJ-Trek. Fuck JJ-Trek. Fuck STD and double FUCK ST-Picard.
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I'm too lazy to type a long rebuttal, but I respectfully disagree about your opinion on The Undiscovered Country.

Also TMP is an abortion that should have never happened. It's a two hour long acid trip with a Star Trek skin pulled over it.
 
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