Starcraft

[Corn Flakes]

See, that's one of these things I never truly understood. The Overmind was a disembodied psychic entity. Just why the fuck did he decide to make himself physical on Aiur?!

It's not like the Overmind or the Zerg were having any issues with things as they were. The Cerebrates had physical forms, sure, but nothing indicated the Overmind needed one either. Technically he wasn't even "Zerg", he was a purely Xel'Naga creation.

 

[Overcast]

I really liked SC1's story personally. Although I can understand it not being everyone's cup of tea.

Brood War had some niggling issues looking back. (Okay, Duran is clearly betraying the UED and Stukov goes after him, telling the player to inform Dugalle that he has "personal bussiness" to take care of. But apparently Duran still tricks DuGalle. Kinda weird looking back.)

Haven't played 2, but I have spent time watching the cutscenes and I can definitely say everything about it is hot garbage. Holy shit. Entertaining hot garbage but still. I mean really, that one line Mengsk's son made about Kerrigan being a Queen in a game of Chess was so fucking cringey.

As for Tassadar sacrificing himself, I thought it was really cool and in character for him. Earlier he was willing to turn himself to stop his brethren from killing each other, so it would make sense to kill the Overmind as fast as possible to save as many lives as he could.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Snekposter]

See, that's one of these things I never truly understood. The Overmind was a disembodied psychic entity. Just why the fuck did he decide to make himself physical on Aiur?!

It's not like the Overmind or the Zerg were having any issues with things as they were. The Cerebrates had physical forms, sure, but nothing indicated the Overmind needed one either. Technically he wasn't even "Zerg", he was a purely Xel'Naga creation.

Because A. It actually was physical prior, just located on Char where the Xel'Naga had created it to guide the Zerg, and B. Aiur is the place to be if you want to nom on the Protoss and absorb their power.

Oh, and tangential thought since we're discussing the Overmind: It took Kerrigan for a variety of reasons. First off, she was there, Mengsk practically offering her to the Zerg on a silver platter. Second, IIRC she was pretty powerful as far as Ghosts go, and according to the manual the Zerg were after mankind for our psychic potential as a counter to the Protoss and their psychic abilities. Remember, she gets to cast Psychic Storm once Infested... an ability that prior belonged only to the High Templars, the dedicated psychic caste of the Protoss. Thirdly, if you wanted a semi-independent field commander for your forces, hard to beat one that's driven by betrayal-fueled misanthropy that's out for bloody revenge against all mankind for its sins against her. "Oh wow, this psychic lady hates everyone and everything for stabbing her in the back! She's perfect!"

 

[Corn Flakes]

Because A. It actually was physical prior, just located on Char where the Xel'Naga had created it to guide the Zerg,

That doesn't make sense. The Zerg only arrived on Char around the time of Starcraft 1. If the Overmind was to have a body, it would be in their actual homeworld of Zerus, not Char. Char is just their base of operations in the Koprulu Sector.

 

[augment]

You guys are so invested into a story that Phinney and Metzen threw together under half an hour over brunch at Denny's.

 

[Corn Flakes]

You guys are so invested into a story that Phinney and Metzen threw together under half an hour over brunch at Denny's.

It's fun. You can't truly rip into someone's shitty fiction unless you pay attention to it.

 

[augment]

The cringefest that was legacy of the void was somewhat pretty to look at.

 

[FreedomMussel]

If anything, this made me want him to truly come back in SC2 just to have someone rag on him about how much of a shit military commander he was.

That’s an interesting way to look at it. The problem is... this is all a result of bad writing.

Tassadar makes tons of idiotic mistakes and gets praised for it because the writer had no clue how to write. This is baby’s first fanfiction level incompetence that had the massive luck to be published professionally.

See, that's one of these things I never truly understood. The Overmind was a disembodied psychic entity. Just why the fuck did he decide to make himself physical on Aiur?!

It's not like the Overmind or the Zerg were having any issues with things as they were. The Cerebrates had physical forms, sure, but nothing indicated the Overmind needed one either. Technically he wasn't even "Zerg", he was a purely Xel'Naga creation.

Again, according to interviews the design team demanded an epic climax so they had Tass kamikaze the Overmind. Nobody at Blizz gave a fuck if it made No sense or damaged the integrity of the setting. Years later the writer would admit he wanted to use Tass again but forgot why he was killed off.

That is the level of incompetence we’re dealing with. The same writer doesn’t understand his own writing. Jeebus Rice.

You guys are so invested into a story that Phinney and Metzen threw together under half an hour over brunch at Denny's.

This is so true. It’s absolutely drek.

That said, I think the story could have been so much better (relatively speaking, probably still b-movie tier) if there was actual thought put into it. Unfortunately, I don’t get along with fans who actually like the story so I don’t really have anybody to talk to about it.

Second, IIRC she was pretty powerful as far as Ghosts go, and according to the manual the Zerg were after mankind for our psychic potential as a counter to the Protoss and their psychic abilities. Remember, she gets to cast Psychic Storm once Infested... an ability that prior belonged only to the High Templars, the dedicated psychic caste of the Protoss.

“Mankind,” not a specific person. They should have been growing armies, not treating one psychotic chick as a messiah. Jeebus Rice, can we hire writers who actually care about the product and not their bizarre sexual fantasies?

Can you imagine the tyranids exalting a human being that way? No, because it’s bloody stupid!

The zerg campaign should have been written independently, not playing second fiddle by continuing the human characters’ plots at the expense of the REAL zerg characters.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That’s an interesting way to look at it. The problem is... this is all a result of bad writing.

Tassadar makes tons of idiotic mistakes and gets praised for it because the writer had no clue how to write. This is baby’s first fanfiction level incompetence that had the massive luck to be published professionally.

Except the way they wrote Mengsk and the Zerg hierarchy, they were competent generals. The reasons for Mengsk doing what he did, aside from abandoning Kerrigan and the people of Tarsonis, was rather logical, and the Zerg Overmind and its Cerebrates were also competent enough as leaders, with you as a Zerg Cerebrate protecting a tier-one asset, engaging the Protoss and decimating them on Char, and sparking the Fall of Aiur, with the other Cerebrates and the Overmind not being as brain-dead as Tassadar was.

Again, according to interviews the design team demanded an epic climax so they had Tass kamikaze the Overmind. Nobody at Blizz gave a fuck if it made No sense or damaged the integrity of the setting. Years later the writer would admit he wanted to use Tass again but forgot why he was killed off.

That is the level of incompetence we’re dealing with. The same writer doesn’t understand his own writing. Jeebus Rice.

Considering how Tassadar is a weepy baby with a martyr complex, I'm not surprised he chose to go out that way. Going full AN HERO instead of just using an assault to mask a Protoss Arbiter teleporting Zeratul in is pretty much something I can see him doing.

This is so true. It’s absolutely drek.

That said, I think the story could have been so much better (relatively speaking, probably still b-movie tier) if there was actual thought put into it. Unfortunately, I don’t get along with fans who actually like the story so I don’t really have anybody to talk to about it.

From my PoV, SC1 is fine, it had some good themes, and Brood War is cool, but it has a few problems in the Zerg and Protoss campaigns.

“Mankind,” not a specific person. They should have been growing armies, not treating one psychotic chick as a messiah. Jeebus Rice, can we hire writers who actually care about the product and not their bizarre sexual fantasies?

Hence why I think the UED should have been involved in SC2 as the primary good guy faction for Wings of Liberty. Stukov was already de-infested, why not have him come back in SC2 as the big good for the humans instead of having the most noble human leader be a drunk hick in a stolen cruiser?

The zerg campaign should have been written independently, not playing second fiddle by continuing the human characters’ plots at the expense of the REAL zerg characters.

I think, for a Zerg antagonist, they should have brought the SC1/Brood War Cerebrate player character (Araq) back in a Hybrid body. Like say, Duran managed to save him before Kerrigan decided to ice him, and placed him inside a Hybrid Reaver's body:

Sometime during Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void, he takes control of some of the Zerg forces, and he continuously throws Kerrigan's evil deeds in Brood War back at her face, especially when she tries to act all reformed.

Kerrigan: "No......I'm not that Queen of Blades anymore!"

Araq: "Sure you are. You're the same bitch who betrayed her friends and bungled every military advantage we gained. Then you had me clean up after your hijinks with the Protoss and the Dominion while we were fighting the UED."

When he sees Kerrigan fighting alongside Jim Raynor, Araq throws Fenix's death in their faces, and Araq asks Jim about his promise to kill Kerrigan. Araq talks about how Kerrigan ordered him to kill Fenix and make life hell for the Protoss forces during Brood War. Then when Artanis fights him, he laughs in the Hierarch's face and talks about how weak the Protoss were when he invaded Aiur, decimated entire cities, and razed the Xel'Naga Temple to the ground.

Artanis: "You will do no better than any of those other Cerebrates that fell before our might!"

Araq: "Don't make me laugh, boy. I burned down the most sacred site in your homeworld so that the Overmind could nest over it. I eradicated entire legions of Protoss warriors on Aiur as if they were rabid dogs being slaughtered for pig feed, just as I decimated the armies of that pitiful fool Tassadar on Char. Your people's empire, at its height, could not stop me. How could a has-been like you do better than your beloved hero Tassadar?"

*Cue Artanis exploding in nuclear rage against Araq while Zeratul desperately tries to hold him back*

 

[Overcast]

Except the way they wrote Mengsk and the Zerg hierarchy, they were competent generals. The reasons for Mengsk doing what he did, aside from abandoning Kerrigan and the people of Tarsonis, was rather logical, and the Zerg Overmind and its Cerebrates were also competent enough as leaders, with you as a Zerg Cerebrate protecting a tier-one asset, engaging the Protoss and decimating them on Char, and sparking the Fall of Aiur, with the other Cerebrates and the Overmind not being as brain-dead as Tassadar was.


Considering how Tassadar is a weepy baby with a martyr complex, I'm not surprised he chose to go out that way. Going full AN HERO instead of just using an assault to mask a Protoss Arbiter teleporting Zeratul in is pretty much something I can see him doing.


From my PoV, SC1 is fine, it had some good themes, and Brood War is cool, but it has a few problems in the Zerg and Protoss campaigns.


Hence why I think the UED should have been involved in SC2 as the primary good guy faction for Wings of Liberty. Stukov was already de-infested, why not have him come back in SC2 as the big good for the humans instead of having the most noble human leader be a drunk hick in a stolen cruiser?


I think, for a Zerg antagonist, they should have brought the SC1/Brood War Cerebrate player character (Araq) back in a Hybrid body. Like say, Duran managed to save him before Kerrigan decided to ice him, and placed him inside a Hybrid Reaver's body:

View attachment 2098327

Sometime during Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void, he takes control of some of the Zerg forces, and he continuously throws Kerrigan's evil deeds in Brood War back at her face, especially when she tries to act all reformed.

Kerrigan: "No......I'm not that Queen of Blades anymore!"

Araq: "Sure you are. You're the same bitch who betrayed her friends and bungled every military advantage we gained. Then you had me clean up after your hijinks with the Protoss and the Dominion while we were fighting the UED."

When he sees Kerrigan fighting alongside Jim Raynor, Araq throws Fenix's death in their faces, and Araq asks Jim about his promise to kill Kerrigan. Araq talks about how Kerrigan ordered him to kill Fenix and make life hell for the Protoss forces during Brood War. Then when Artanis fights him, he laughs in the Hierarch's face and talks about how weak the Protoss were when he invaded Aiur, decimated entire cities, and razed the Xel'Naga Temple to the ground.

Artanis: "You will do no better than any of those other Cerebrates that fell before our might!"

Araq: "Don't make me laugh, boy. I burned down the most sacred site in your homeworld so that the Overmind could nest over it. I eradicated entire legions of Protoss warriors on Aiur as if they were rabid dogs being slaughtered for pig feed, just as I decimated the armies of that pitiful fool Tassadar on Char. Your people at their height could not stop me. How could a has-been like you do better than your beloved hero Tassadar?"

*Cue Artanis exploding in nuclear rage against Araq while Zeratul desperately tries to hold him back*

I seem to remember reading that in SC2, the cerebrates were all killed off by Kerrigan for some reason. Why is that? Araq as you've described pretty much did a lot of the heavy lifting.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I seem to remember reading that in SC2, the cerebrates were all killed off by Kerrigan for some reason. Why is that? Araq as you've described pretty much did a lot of the heavy lifting.

And in my storyline, Duran manages to rescue Araq and places him in a Hybrid Reaver's body.

Maybe Infested Kerrigan resented having generals smarter than her, and once she had supreme power over the swarms, she felt like she no longer needed Araq or any other Cerebrate.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I seem to remember reading that in SC2, the cerebrates were all killed off by Kerrigan for some reason. Why is that? Araq as you've described pretty much did a lot of the heavy lifting.

The remaining Cerebrates were killed off because if left to their own devices they'd eventually merge into a third Overmind. That's just what they did when they were missing an Overmind.

 

[Overcast]

The remaining Cerebrates were killed off because if left to their own devices they'd eventually merge into a third Overmind. That's just what they did when they were missing an Overmind.

Right right. I remember now.

Still, shame about Kerrigan's best Cerebrate.

 

[Stasi]

So is this just a story sperging thread? Anyone else watch competitive SC? GSL and ASL both on right now I'm one of these people that can barely beat the AI in these games but will watch the Korean pro events religiously.

 

[Corn Flakes]

So is this just a story sperging thread? Anyone else watch competitive SC? GSL and ASL both on right now I'm one of these people that can barely beat the AI in these games but will watch the Korean pro events religiously.

I used to watch SC1 comp way back. SC2 is hit-and-miss. I enjoyed watching it in Wings, skipped Heart of the Swarm, and Legacy of the Void is just a snorefest to me. I don't know what they changed, but it's just kind of boring to me unless a player tries something silly and catches everybody off-guard.

 

[Overcast]

So is this just a story sperging thread? Anyone else watch competitive SC? GSL and ASL both on right now I'm one of these people that can barely beat the AI in these games but will watch the Korean pro events religiously.

It's always a joy watching a good Brood War match. The game is just so balanced (for the most part) and people keep finding ways to change and expand on the meta.

Anyone else think Artosis is a bit of a sperg though? I enjoy his and Tasteless' commentary during the matches but I wasn't expecting him to use the same kind of terminology DSP uses in fighting games.

 

[Stasi]

It's always a joy watching a good Brood War match. The game is just so balanced (for the most part) and people keep finding ways to change and expand on the meta.

I enjoy watching Brood War way more than SC2, don't know if its the balance but it feels much more exciting than SC2 for the most part (Brood War ZvZ matches I find boring as hell though).

Anyone else think Artosis is a bit of a sperg though? I enjoy his and Tasteless' commentary during the matches but I wasn't expecting him to use the same kind of terminology DSP uses in fighting games.

I never watch their streams outside of the tournament casts, gotta say thats pretty funny. Artosis always comes across like the more calm and mature of the two. Guess you have to be some level of sperg to dedicate your life to video games 'professionally'

 

[FreedomMussel]

The reasons for Mengsk doing what he did, aside from abandoning Kerrigan and the people of Tarsonis, was rather logical,

Maybe in isolation. But he shouldn’t have been able to succeed in the first place because his plan relied on the zerg mindlessly following the psi-emitter, having arbitrary forces to steamroll any opposition, and Kerry being a mary sue with all the best magical powers. Chris Metzen, the guy who wrote it all, is a bad writer. His writing is bad. You are making excuses for bad writing. You give me a headache. Jesus Christ.

and the Zerg Overmind and its Cerebrates were also competent enough as leaders, with you as a Zerg Cerebrate protecting a tier-one asset, engaging the Protoss and decimating them on Char, and sparking the Fall of Aiur, with the other Cerebrates and the Overmind not being as brain-dead as Tassadar was.

They won because of Metzen’s author fiat, not because their strategy made any sense. Kerry being a tier-one asset? Jesus Christ, she’s a mary sue. Metzen’s girlfriend insert. The writing is bad.

From my PoV, SC1 is fine, it had some good themes, and Brood War is cool, but it has a few problems in the Zerg and Protoss campaigns.

It’s bad. B-movie at absolute best. It’s a complete waste of its own premise that prefers to focus on absurd soap opera dynamics at the expense of the actual factions.

Hence why I think the UED should have been involved in SC2 as the primary good guy faction for Wings of Liberty. Stukov was already de-infested, why not have him come back in SC2 as the big good for the humans instead of having the most noble human leader be a drunk hick in a stolen cruiser?

The UED are a giant retcon anyway. They weren’t even originally going to be in BW. They were added later, and they aren’t actually necessary either. The writing is bad because Chris Metzen is a bad writer.

I think, for a Zerg antagonist, they should have brought the SC1/Brood War Cerebrate player character (Araq) back in a Hybrid body. Like say, Duran managed to save him before Kerrigan decided to ice him, and placed him inside a Hybrid Reaver's body:

The hybrids are fucking stupid, like everything else in this shit story. They’re a giant retcon that contradict the entire MO of the zerg. Metzen is a bad writer. He writes like a child. Jesus fucking Christ.

The remaining Cerebrates were killed off because if left to their own devices they'd eventually merge into a third Overmind. That's just what they did when they were missing an Overmind.

No, they were killed off because Games Workshop threatened to sue Blizzard back in the day. No, I don’t understand it either,
Fucking nonsensical space magic anyway. Fuck Metzen. Fuck Kerry. Fuck Blizzard. Fuck Starcraft to fucking hell. I am so sick of this shit tier writing and listening to know-nothings praise this shit tier writing. God fucking damnit it.
I just want a bug war RTS with writing that isn’t fucking stupid. Where the bugs are inhuman monsters that don’t play second fiddle to the stupid fucking humans. Where the humans are not stupid girlfriend inserts or Saturday morning cartoon villains. Jesus fucking Christ, that isn’t hard.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

No, they were killed off because Games Workshop threatened to sue Blizzard back in the day. No, I don’t understand it either,

If there's any studio that deserves to be sued, it probably is Games Workshop, due to their omnipresent plagiarism. I'm surprised Michael Moorcock and the others haven't sued them into the dirt. At least George Lucas openly admits that he's taking influences from others, instead of saying that his creations are wholly original.

GW threatened to sue someone for using the word "Space Marine" in the title of their story. What pricks.

I just want a bug war RTS with writing that isn’t fucking stupid. Where the bugs are inhuman monsters that don’t play second fiddle to the stupid fucking humans. Where the humans are not stupid girlfriend inserts or Saturday morning cartoon villains. Jesus fucking Christ, that isn’t hard.

I'm pretty sure there could be a Starship Troopers game/mod or Aliens game that can fulfill that need.

That, or just play skirmish matches in Starcraft and throw the whole story out with the bathwater. No need to bother with a story when you can just make one in the campaign editor.

 

[FreedomMussel]

I'm pretty sure there could be a Starship Troopers game/mod or Aliens game that can fulfill that need.

There isn’t. I’ve been looking for years without success. The appeal of the zerg prior to Metzen’s shit writing ruining them was that 1) they were an inhuman villain intent on eating the universe and becoming perfect like every other devouring swarm trope, and 2) they had actual personalities to make their campaign more interesting than just animal growls, while still being monstrous and inhuman.
There is nothing in the whole of all human fiction to date that fits those criteria. It’s so fucking frustrating. I hate that stupid horndog Metzen so fucking much.
The vang from the Vang novels and the necrophages from Endless Legend game come closest, but they’re trapped in obscurity and nobody else gives a fuck about them.

That, or just play skirmish matches in Starcraft and throw the whole story out with the bathwater.

I never play SC anymore because it fills me with revulsion. Also, ActiBlizz isn’t even the same company that made the game and I don’t want to support them. They’re focused on making mobile shovelware.

No need to bother with a story when you can just make one in the campaign editor.

Tried that years ago. Gave up. It’s not fucking worth it. Not like the remaining fans would ever appreciate it anyway, since everybody who hasn’t jumped ship years ago loves sucking Metzen’s dick.
The most frustrating part isn’t that Blizzard done fucked up, it’s that there aren’t like-minded people I can talk to and share stories with. Believe me, I’ve tried. For years.
Writers who write self-inserts where they control zerg as a human and act all human and shit? They can shove their writing up their ass and suck Orson Scott Card’s dick. I don’t want fucking friendly formics singing kumbaya, I want fucking monsters that eat your face and don’t share any human values or consider human lives to hold intrinsic value because the bugs are the fucking superior species.
It’s not fucking rocket science. I am so fucking angry and bitter about this. Jesus fucking Christ.

I know that abstractly there are probably a lot of like-minded people out there. But I sure as hell can’t find them and they sure as hell aren’t showing themselves.

I hate complaining about this, but I’m at my wit’s end here. I have been stuck in a rut for years now without any hope. It’s maddening.