Steven Universe - Now a Griefing Thread

[One Man Bland]

I think the show themes overshadowed its own good aspects. It became the show about lesbians instead of a cool adventure series with some lgbt elements, and it never fully commited to an audience: the older teenagers and young adults that might want some more personal drama, or a kids shows with tons of adventure and imagination.

SU also never seemed committed to being an adventure series in general, considering how as the story progressed action and even just physical comedy became much more sparse.

Combine that with how SU dragged on certain plot lines that could’ve been wrapped up in one episode for the bomb format rather than expanding on the plots that the bombs would’ve benefitted from, and individual episodes themselves severely dragged in the second acts (hell even the movie is like this) and you got a recipe for a show that’s doomed to be remembered for its milestones rather than its actual content; and will likely be dropped the second someone else does those milestones better.

 

[Private Pyle]

SU also never seemed committed to being an adventure series in general, considering how as the story progressed action and even just physical comedy became much more sparse.

Combine that with how SU dragged on certain plot lines that could’ve been wrapped up in one episode for the bomb format rather than expanding on the plots that the bombs would’ve benefitted from, and individual episodes themselves severely dragged in the second acts (hell even the movie is like this) and you got a recipe for a show that’s doomed to be remembered for its milestones rather than its actual content; and will likely be dropped the second someone else does those milestones better.

Jack of all trades, master of none.
By Sugar’s own admission, SU was supposed to be the ultimate cartoon and it trying to please everyone, it ended up burning a lot of people except for diehard fans. And dear lord I can go on with the pacing; everyone thinks the art is the worst part of the show but I think pacing is a bigger problem not many people talk enough about. And shocker, the top three examples of this all relate to the Steven Bombs.

 

[starborn427614]

Jack of all trades, master of none.
By Sugar’s own admission, SU was supposed to be the ultimate cartoon and it trying to please everyone, it ended up burning a lot of people except for diehard fans. And dear lord I can go on with the pacing; everyone thinks the art is the worst part of the show but I think pacing is a bigger problem not many people talk enough about. And shocker, the top three examples of this all relate to the Steven Bombs.

The live pacing was atrocious for sure, it's clearly meant to be binged and it was never clearer to me than when they did that series marathon prior to the premiere of the movie. It's obviously not something that erases all flaws, but when you're not waiting SIX MONTHS for a mediocre Rough Draft animated episode and townie antics you're much more willing to forgive the small stuff. I'm not surprised that a lot of people dropped off due to this stop/start process. I also think that the boarders themselves are way more suited to dialogue and character stuff rather than action and that was very much reflected in the show until even like SU Future with that one French boarder who worked on shows like Lastman.

tl'dr: I love the fucker, but it was undoubtedly too ambitious for its own good.

 

[Private Pyle]

The live pacing was atrocious for sure, it's clearly meant to be binged and it was never clearer to me than when they did that series marathon prior to the premiere of the movie. It's obviously not something that erases all flaws, but when you're not waiting SIX MONTHS for a mediocre Rough Draft animated episode and townie antics you're much more willing to forgive the small stuff. I'm not surprised that a lot of people dropped off due to this stop/start process. I also think that the boarders themselves are way more suited to dialogue and character stuff rather than action and that was very much reflected in the show until even like SU Future with that one French boarder who worked on shows like Lastman.

tl'dr: I love the fucker, but it was undoubtedly too ambitious for its own good.

I’ve actually marathoned the series and that doesn’t really fix the flaws.
How do I put this; during Steven Bombs, there will be a big plot going on which will then be put on hold or get glossed over.
>The Cluster is close to forming and destroying the earth! Oh but we need to celebrate Steven’s birthday.
>Lars is still stuck in space after having just died! But Connie is mad, need to deal with that.
>Rose is actually Pink Diamond! But forget that, there’s a wedding that needs preparing.
Like it’s not small stuff, the problems with the writing go deeper than just waiting six months.

I have to agree that the crew’s strength is mostly dialogue and character stuff, which makes the choice of a sci fi space opera more baffling.

 

[starborn427614]

I’ve actually marathoned the series and that doesn’t really fix the flaws.
How do I put this; during Steven Bombs, there will be a big plot going on which will then be put on hold or get glossed over.
>The Cluster is close to forming and destroying the earth! Oh but we need to celebrate Steven’s birthday.
>Lars is still stuck in space after having just died! But Connie is mad, need to deal with that.
>Rose is actually Pink Diamond! But forget that, there’s a wedding that needs preparing.
Like it’s not small stuff, the problems with the writing go deeper than just waiting six months.

I have to agree that the crew’s strength is mostly dialogue and character stuff, which makes the choice of a sci fi space opera more baffling.

The Cluster I agree with, but given Lars had the Off Colors who know Homeworld better than probably even the Diamonds I wasn't really concerned about him. Now if you wanted to twist the question to "Would I have liked to see more of stuff with him INSTEAD of that "then yes, but the abrupt brakes on the plot is something I became numb to by season 4. As for the Rose/PD thing that was a product of them having to wrap shit up after their funding was yanked for being too gay and I've no doubt there would've been more episodes to discuss the fallout as well as a longer Diamond arc in general. That being said, even with more episodes there's not much more you could do besides giving each character their own reaction to the reveal (like they did) and then move on. The bitch is dead after all, it's not like she's gonna show up and answer questions.

With all that said, this strikes me more as the first person perspective hampering the writing than the writers actual talent. I didn't think Dewey Wins was great, but it wasn't the idea that was the issue, it's that they, as they so often would do to not overwhelm the kids, softball it. The argument should've spanned the whole episode and really gotten into BOTH characters mindsets with the election taking the place of Gemcation instead. Most of the rest of that arc could've been condensed into one or two episodes as well.

 

[One Man Bland]

Jack of all trades, master of none.
By Sugar’s own admission, SU was supposed to be the ultimate cartoon and it trying to please everyone, it ended up burning a lot of people except for diehard fans. And dear lord I can go on with the pacing; everyone thinks the art is the worst part of the show but I think pacing is a bigger problem not many people talk enough about. And shocker, the top three examples of this all relate to the Steven Bombs.

I think the other part is just the characters and filler stories themselves just aren’t strong enough to carry those slump periods in the narrative.

There’s been a lot of shows that have a similar “a handful of episodes covering an overarching plot and a bunch of filler episodes between those plot beats” format. Off the top of my head, 2003 Teen Titans, Justice League Unlimited, and ATLA come to mind. But those succeeded where SU failed was 1) the filler episodes where usually fun on their own with either fun set pieces or creative action, and 2) the characters had enough going for them that you just like watching them fight the random bad guys of the week or simply hang out and bounce off of each other. SU... didn’t have that. The set pieces were either underutilized or boring, action was always put on the back burner, and while Sugar put a lot of work into the character angst and the backstory for all that angst that didn’t make them enjoyable to watch in any other situation. All that kinda worked against SU and made it all the more noticeable when the plot was at a stand still and left a lot of viewers stuck in “when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory” mode for the majority of the series.

Good characters can save a flimsy plot, but I don’t think any amount of meticulous plotting or DEEEPEST LORE can make up for flimsy characters.

 

[Private Pyle]

The Cluster I agree with, but given Lars had the Off Colors who know Homeworld better than probably even the Diamonds I wasn't really concerned about him. Now if you wanted to twist the question to "Would I have liked to see more of stuff with him INSTEAD of that "then yes, but the abrupt brakes on the plot is something I became numb to by season 4. As for the Rose/PD thing that was a product of them having to wrap shit up after their funding was yanked for being too gay and I've no doubt there would've been more episodes to discuss the fallout as well as a longer Diamond arc in general. That being said, even with more episodes there's not much more you could do besides giving each character their own reaction to the reveal (like they did) and then move on. The bitch is dead after all, it's not like she's gonna show up and answer questions.

With all that said, this strikes me more as the first person perspective hampering the writing than the writers actual talent. I didn't think Dewey Wins was great, but it wasn't the idea that was the issue, it's that they, as they so often would do to not overwhelm the kids, softball it. The argument should've spanned the whole episode and really gotten into BOTH characters mindsets with the election taking the place of Gemcation instead. Most of the rest of that arc could've been condensed into one or two episodes as well.

The thing is, the reveal was the big story turning point, where everything gets decontextualized and nothing would be the same...only to be shrugged off. All for a gay wedding that was quickly forgotten after a few months. It would be like if Vader being revealed as Luke’s father was quickly forgotten about in the span of five minutes. Given how polarizing the reveal was, I feel that improving the execution would have made it an easier pill to swallow. And really, if the writers insist on using the singular point of view even when it’s detrimental to the show, does that not make it bad writing.

There’s a lot more that I want to see but I’m starting to think I’m overthinking this.

 

[starborn427614]

The thing is, the reveal was the big story turning point, where everything gets decontextualized and nothing would be the same...only to be shrugged off. All for a gay wedding that was quickly forgotten after a few months. It would be like if Vader being revealed as Luke’s father was quickly forgotten about in the span of five minutes. Given how polarizing the reveal was, I feel that improving the execution would have made it an easier pill to swallow. And really, if the writers insist on using the singular point of view even when it’s detrimental to the show, does that not make it bad writing.

There’s a lot more that I want to see but I’m starting to think I’m overthinking this.

Well I mean the wedding had story significance to beyond just paralleling Ian and Rebecca's choice to get married IRL (Sapphire and Ruby being their gemsonas), what with it solidifying their bond as a team who'd moved on from Rose Quartz's teachings, but in the end it's down to the individual to make their own choice as to whether it was well executed or not. As obnoxious as I am already, I draw the line at speaking for other people.

 

[AnOminous]

And shocker, the top three examples of this all relate to the Steven Bombs.

People binge a show because they want to. Actually forcing them to is bullshit. If I ever watched that show, that would just piss me the fuck off, especially if I wanted to talk about it online and would have to dodge spoilers for a month until I got around to watching them all.

 

[starborn427614]

People binge a show because they want to. Actually forcing them to is bullshit. If I ever watched that show, that would just piss me the fuck off, especially if I wanted to talk about it online and would have to dodge spoilers for a month until I got around to watching them all.

You wouldn't just have to worry about the format, the show itself was leakier than a chocolate teapot. For a time, there was very solid theory that CN was genuinely trying to kill the show.

 

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

The thing is, the reveal was the big story turning point, where everything gets decontextualized and nothing would be the same...only to be shrugged off. All for a gay wedding that was quickly forgotten after a few months. It would be like if Vader being revealed as Luke’s father was quickly forgotten about in the span of five minutes. Given how polarizing the reveal was, I feel that improving the execution would have made it an easier pill to swallow. And really, if the writers insist on using the singular point of view even when it’s detrimental to the show, does that not make it bad writing.

There’s a lot more that I want to see but I’m starting to think I’m overthinking this.

There's even a fucking song in the wedding episode where steven says
Mom was a Diamond who invaded Earth
Saw its beauty and its worth
Mom made an army and she fought herself
Did that even end up mattering when she faked her own shattering?
Mom lived in hiding by the name of Rose
But the friends she'd made, and the form she chose
Now all that's left of her exists in me
And I think that we can all agree
That is a little bit upsetting
I'd rather think about a wedding!

WHAT KIND OF BULLSHIT--
But yeah "healthy coping mechanisms" Rebecca, sure.

 

[Muttnik]

They never resolved the Steven-Rose conflict, an unforgivable mistake that absolutely destroys all hope of good writing on the show.

 

[starborn427614]

There's even a fucking song in the wedding episode where steven says
Mom was a Diamond who invaded Earth
Saw its beauty and its worth
Mom made an army and she fought herself
Did that even end up mattering when she faked her own shattering?
Mom lived in hiding by the name of Rose
But the friends she'd made, and the form she chose
Now all that's left of her exists in me
And I think that we can all agree
That is a little bit upsetting
I'd rather think about a wedding!

WHAT KIND OF BULLSHIT--
But yeah "healthy coping mechanisms" Rebecca, sure.

Yes that is a thing with Steven and it's not healthy. Well spotted.

They never resolved the Steven-Rose conflict, an unforgivable mistake that absolutely destroys all hope of good writing on the show.

Technically they did. To quote Steven from Future Episode 4 "Volleyball"
"Stop it! I can't deal with more horrible thing she did, Okay?! (The Pearls gasp.) I don't want to hear about it! I don't even want to think about it! I just want to FIX IT"


I don't think he hates her at all, but it's hard to look at your parents the same way once you actually see them as a person, warts and all, instead of the shining figure that you initially associated them as. Well, from what the gems told him she was like anyway.

 

[One Man Bland]

There's even a fucking song in the wedding episode where steven says
Mom was a Diamond who invaded Earth
Saw its beauty and its worth
Mom made an army and she fought herself
Did that even end up mattering when she faked her own shattering?
Mom lived in hiding by the name of Rose
But the friends she'd made, and the form she chose
Now all that's left of her exists in me
And I think that we can all agree
That is a little bit upsetting
I'd rather think about a wedding!

WHAT KIND OF BULLSHIT--
But yeah "healthy coping mechanisms" Rebecca, sure.

I know the idea is supposed to be that Steven and the others are trying to distract themselves, but that falls flat when “procrastinating on the plot” shit happens with literally every single reveal.

There’s down time, and then there’s jerking your audience around. And SU became the latter every time they pulled this “can’t we just have THIS ONE BREAK?” episode after Joy Ride.

 

[starborn427614]

I know the idea is supposed to be that Steven and the others are trying to distract themselves, but that falls flat when “procrastinating on the plot” shit happens with literally every single reveal.

There’s down time, and then there’s jerking your audience around. And SU became the latter every time they pulled this “can’t we just have THIS ONE BREAK?” episode after Joy Ride.

The others are fine, it's just Steven. He's done this since arguably The Test where he pretended to be fine so the gems would feel like their training was actually working. I get where you're coming from with the pacing thing, but they are technically in the middle of a cold war. I know it doesn't seem like that since sometimes it's all "ha ha townie episode go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr" but Steven as a kid does not have a healthy life/work balance and that comes back to bite him hard in Future.

 

[One Man Bland]

The others are fine, it's just Steven. He's done this since arguably The Test where he pretended to be fine so the gems would feel like their training was actually working. I get where you're coming from with the pacing thing, but they are technically in the middle of a cold war. I know it doesn't seem like that since sometimes it's all "ha ha townie episode go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr" but Steven as a kid does not have a healthy life/work balance and that comes back to bite him hard in Future.

It’s not just a matter of the pacing, it’s also a matter of the repetition. The “Steven needs a break” plot happens like twelve times, and while the details might change the actual story beats are almost identical. Same go for a lot of the townie episodes.

Good filler& one-off episodes rely on not just interesting stand alone premises, but also knowing where to put them. And SU understood neither.

 

[starborn427614]

It’s not just a matter of the pacing, it’s also a matter of the repetition. The “Steven needs a break” plot happens like twelve times, and while the details might change the actual story beats are almost identical. Same go for a lot of the townie episodes.

Good filler& one-off episodes rely on not just interesting stand alone premises, but also timing. And SU understood neither.

What are the other instances of Steven needing a break exactly? Or rather, moments or episodes categorised as where we get insight into his character which he tends to keep private from everyone except maybe Connie. I can think of Joyride and maybe Mindful Education. Even during townie episodes he's still helping people which is work to him.

 

[mario if smoke weed]

Man, how fast this show has lost the relevance it had. I mean, its like people just forgot about it.
Evangelion, Batman TAS, Dragon Ball, King of the Hill, Adventure Time, Dexters Lab, Samurai Jack, Sailor Moon etc, have had decades of people talking about them after they finished and have shaped pop culture. What did SU accomplish? I actually really liked the show, but its fucking dead as a franchise. The only one talking about it is us beating a dead horse and the hardcore fanbase that will move on once the new shinny thing comes along. Its kindda sad because I really liked the use of music and the exploration of some themes, like Lapis Lazulis trauma.
I think the show themes overshadowed its own good aspects. It became the show about lesbians instead of a cool adventure series with some lgbt elements, and it never fully commited to an audience: the older teenagers and young adults that might want some more personal drama, or a kids shows with tons of adventure and imagination.
RIP Steven Universe. You had some cool songs.

Damn, I remember when I was super excited to watch Steven Universe and see where the story went. It had a lot of potential back in the day. If only they didn't rush the Pink Diamond arc and stop the show short because "muh gay wedding".

 

[starborn427614]

SU never gave us Rusty Shackleford or had episodes which are relevant to this day even.

Like the dog being aggressive against that black repairman implying Hank is racist when it's equally aggressive against any repairman.

"Those gems ain't right, Bobby"

SU has plenty of relevant episodes, it's a pretty moralfag type of show. Unless you mean "memorable" which isn't really the same thing.

 

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

I know it's old hat by now, but goddamn it's still pissing me off how Rebecca went
"we NEED all these pointless townie not-Diamond not space-empire (and much more interesting) episodes to make you care about the townies when they get kidnapped!"
And then the townies got kidnapped by the blue midget and the ripped ass gay permafusion
and guess what, Becky?
In spite of all your wasted townie episodes, I still didn't care. Also they fucking escaped right after, so what a load of fucking wasted episodes.