Steven Universe - Now a Griefing Thread

[The Pink Panther]

When you put the Kevin and White Diamond incidents back to back, some disturbing implications are raised.

It doesn’t matter that Kevin was a bit of arrogant prick, what matters is that he had made Steven and Connie uncomfortable. It doesn’t matter that White Diamond was a tyrant with a caste system, she hurt Steven personally.

Sugar was right in that Steven wasn’t a forgiving person...to people who have slighted him. So long as you don’t bug him, you can commit murder and he’ll still forgive you.

You're right about that. He isn't unless you fuck with him.

Still don't you think it's weird that Steven and Connie's automatic reaction wasn't uncomfortableness in Alone Together and then all of a sudden out nowhere a season or two later, they feel really angry when they see him? That really caught me off guard when I was marathonning the show because I didn't even remember this character at all and then he just showed up and they started hating on him. However, if they planned to build him up that way in the first place, then I could understand more. Otherwise, it's just a reflection on how inconsistently written this show is.

edit: I meant WASN'T uncomfortableness

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

You're right about that. He isn't unless you fuck with him.

Still don't you think it's weird that Steven and Connie's automatic reaction was uncomfortableness in Alone Together and then all of a sudden out nowhere a season or two later, they feel really angry when they see him? That really caught me off guard when I was marathonning the show because I didn't even remember this character at all and then he just showed up and they started hating on him. However, if they planned to build him up that way in the first place, then I could understand more. Otherwise, it's just a reflection on how inconsistently written this show is.

Yeah that’s something I noticed too. Marty and Kevin are the most hated characters in the show despite being, at best, assholes. To be fair they did try to humanize Kevin in his last appearance, by giving him a sad backstory, but still Steven was uncharacteristically hateful with him.

Though, also notice how they aren’t cool gems with magical powers that will idolize him? That says a lot about Steven.

But what’s more messed up is how the fandom hated Kevin, I kid you not, they basically said he was a rapist. But Yellow Diamond committing genocide because she is sad is fine ?

 

[Private Pyle]

You're right about that. He isn't unless you fuck with him.

Still don't you think it's weird that Steven and Connie's automatic reaction wasn't uncomfortableness in Alone Together and then all of a sudden out nowhere a season or two later, they feel really angry when they see him? That really caught me off guard when I was marathonning the show because I didn't even remember this character at all and then he just showed up and they started hating on him. However, if they planned to build him up that way in the first place, then I could understand more. Otherwise, it's just a reflection on how inconsistently written this show is.

edit: I meant WASN'T uncomfortableness

Truth be told, I can’t tell you whether Kevin was built up after his first appearance; contrary to what fans say, the crew makes up a lot as they go along. Kevin could have been a one off until they brought him for a moral of the day. It’s still inconsistent in the sense that Steven still hated a random douchebag more than Yellow Diamond at this point.

Yeah that’s something I noticed too. Marty and Kevin are the most hated characters in the show despite being, at best, assholes. To be fair they did try to humanize Kevin in his last appearance, by giving him a sad backstory, but still Steven was uncharacteristically hateful with him.

Though, also notice how they aren’t cool gems with magical powers that will idolize him? That says a lot about Steven.

But what’s more messed up is how the fandom hated Kevin, I kid you not, they basically said he was a rapist. But Yellow Diamond committing genocide because she is sad is fine ?

It gets even worse; people try to rationalize Steven’s attitude by pointing out “things that happen to you personally will affect you more than things that happened far away.” The example used is (shocker) Harry Potter; basically pointing out how Dolores Umbridge is considered a more vile villain than Voldemort because she hit closer to home. And because people know a Kevin in their lives but don’t know a Diamond/dictator in their lives, Kevin is seen as worst.

I dunno, I wasn’t there for the Rwandan Genocide but I still find that more vile than someone who called me names years back and I react as much with fiction.

 

[One Man Bland]

I mean, we've seen this universe's equivalent of New York City and New Jersey and they don't seem at all affected by this whatsoever. And all of the other Gem monuments/structures are all off in the middle of bumfuck nowhere anyways, so I assume everyone's either fine with it after having the Gems exist for so long, or they've just grown complacent and scared to do anything given the power the Diamonds had lauded over the entire species all those millennia ago.

...Or the Gems just didn't expand to places near completely devoid of life or resources that were useful to them, hence why Arabs still exists in a world with no religion, and why there seems to be no military around to do anything. I mean, really think about it: the fuck's a gun or tanks gonna do against a giant fuck-off mech of death, element-bending Gems, and a species that cannot die even under the most extreme circumstances?

At that point, especially with how even more primitive humanity's tech would've been back then, I'd probably just assume the position and let these two factions of Gems fight it out, and stay as far away from the conflict as possible.

I think that’s just it: the show is so unfocused that we can’t even draw any definite conclusions to the rest of humanity’s perception of Gems. Hell, 90% of the time non BC townies aren’t even on screen when weird Gem shit happens (and I always found it extremely weird that there’s all these ancient Gem ruins and sites light gravity-defying mountains and not a single one has become a tourist attraction or a hot spot for daredevils/adventurous explorers), and the few reactions we do have are indistinguishable from retardation. I mean, what the hell are we supposed to conclude about the setting from Andy calling Lapis and Peridot illegal immigrants? Or when Greg’s explanation that Steven couldn’t be enrolled in school because "[Steven’s] a Gem" when we have absolutely no point of reference to say how much of an issue this would be?

When the reactions from the average human characters are indistinguishable from that of the completely sheltered Human Zoo specimens, and you have several major plot point/plot hole explanations that are dependent on knowledge that the audience can’t possibly receive from watching the show, something has gone wrong.

Just reading Rebbeca posts about who Steven "Really is"
View attachment 1208125
It does show she doesn't understand her characters.
The reasons why everybody says that Steven is a forgiving is because of him constantly forgiven most of his enemies and up redeeming them through the power of friendship.
Also, Steven does not have a self-sacrificing nature he's incredibly selfish.
He was constantly begging the Gems to take him on adventures even though they're dangerous but they ultimately cave-in and give in to his demands.
Even the episode "The Test" which was of the "writers" having to retcon Steven mistakes because he ended up destroying ancient temple only for them to change into a test he failed and he gets upset and want to prove himself only to fail again and ends up lying to the Gems because he doesn't want to hurt their feeling, all the while failing to understand this all started because the Gems have no idea how to teach Steven.
Hell in the Movie he straight up abandoned his duties as Diamond because he just wants to lay on his ass and look at the sky and even when the movies try to say he has more work to do in the future, well in SU Future he straight ups leave at the end of the show.
The only times he ever truly sacrifice himself for others is when surrendering himself to the diamonds and berates him for doing this because according to Sugar "he's putting himself in harm's way" but that's the whole point.
You put your own needs and yourself for the sake of others because that is what someone who is truly selfless does.

Agreed; if anything, I would say that Steven’s biggest flaws are that he comes off as incredibly ego-centric and that he often feels like he’s written by people who preach empathy and understanding without the slightest clue on how people work or what empathy looks like in practice. (So like if Tumblr was a character.)

I wasn’t being frivolous when I compared Steven to Shinji before. I remember a long time ago I saw a video on NGE that argued that the reason Shinji comes across as whiny to so many people isn’t because he cries a lot or feels sad (after all that’s not unique amongst shonen protagonists) but that his angst comes from a place of ego that prevents him from even acknowledging or caring about anything that’s not himself. And who wants to root for a protagonist that’s so deliberately ignorant by their own making?

That‘s how I’ve felt about Steven for the entirety of the show. 9 out of 10 times Steven either causes or aggravates the conflicts of the episode because of his inability to read the fucking room or leave people who don’t want or need his meddling well enough alone, and because of how episodes are structured there‘s several instances that can only be read as Steven deliberately ignoring impending danger until the last minute a la Steven’s infamous "working hard in importan, but feeling good is important too!" 1.5 days before the Cluster is about to destroy the Earth, or complaining about Connie being mad at him was "even more messed up" than his resurrected human companion that was stranded on a hostile alien planet. Steven felt especially insufferable in SUF to me because it seemed like all his worst habits - self-centeredness, hearing but never actually listening, asking really obvious questions that he could answer himself if he thought about anything for even a second while ignoring the things that could be expanded upon - were on full display, but being presented as obnoxiously "valid uwu." I know I shouldn’t be surprised that SU ended with a group hug and everyone learning that they have to cater to Stevenso feelings more by... doing exactly what they’ve been doing before, but now with an off-screen therapist; but it still baffles me that that’s the best they could come up with.

Even Sugar’s own examples come off more like Steven being a martyr to fluff his own ego rather than true self-seacrifice. I always thought the conclusion to The Test was really fucking stupid because a) of fucking course the Gems aren’t going to make danger room simulations that could actually kill him, that‘s the most common sense they ever exhibited in the whole series, and 2) there was an easy compromise in making the obstacle course pass/fail if the traps get within range, but the whole premise that Steven did this to "spare their feelings" cane off as so artificial. I’ve also noticed that Sugar being critical of the concept of self-sacrifice because "but then they’ll get hurt!!’ was a thing really common with her villain arcs, and pro the main reason why most of them are so unsatisfying. If villains can only atone for truly horrific acts through deeds that won’t "harm" them and therefore come with no real sacrifice on the villain’s part, how could they ever hope for a satisaying conclusion?

None of these give off the impression that Steven is a "self-sacrificing" person. If they really wanted to deconstruct Steven, a better angle would’ve been that the above behavior comes across as though White Diamond had been right on the money when she said Steven/Pink surrounded themselves with people they secretly looked down on ti make themselves feel better/superior when they gave them help. Hell, they could’ve even kept the ‘self sacrifice‘ part in by asking where sacrifice ends and a savior complex begins.

 

[NSJAP]

"Aliens with a limited grasps on humanity = autistic representation"
-Rebecca "J.K. Rowling" Sugar

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

You know I'm kinda curious how Rebeca Sugar sees Pink Diamond.

Contrary to what Pearl said about things all being the result of "complicated factors beyond anyone's control", literally every Gem related bad thing that ever happened was caused by her acting like a spoiled child and then her literally roleplaying as her O.C hero gemsona.

By the usual Tumblr logic that judges people by intentions, not their actions (no matter how bad), that would put her as a misunderstood victim that simply wasn't aware of the damage she was causing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sugar didn't think Pink was a villain and just needed to "express her feelings" or something like that.

 

[Wabbu]

Here is the map I talked about ages ago but is never fucking built upon because we had to have a 60th episode showing us about how everyone in beach city is a normal fucking human besides a strange midgit and his exceptional individual mumbling fishing dad.

Everywhere is fucked up except for North America and Europe, good job Becky

(this is a joke btw)

 

[ufukiniggas]

Greg's leg and pearl's helicopter parent tendencies were problems that were solved in the series. The porkchop saying even made a return at some point. There weren't any retcons that major.

They were retconed because Greg "always ran away from gem business" and "never protected Steven". And apparently no one ever looked out for Steven - they just sent him merrily into danger and were therefore completely irresponsible which is why he has broken bones and PTSD from the early seasons. And everyone can make mistakes except Pink Diamond who is apparently the one true villian of the series.

SUF was terrible in large part because of the retcons and the production crew's complete inability to fucking write a competent ending to save their professional lives.

 

[UnKillFill]

Why couldn't we have gotten some actual closure with Uncle Carl Andy in Future? I'm not gonna lie, he's my second favorite character of what I've seen of this entire show. (Like a lot of you, I agree that Greg is clearly the best character. That one episode of future that tried to make him look like an asshole didn't change my mind on him, and I'm glad he finally got the house in the end, he should have been living there all along.) But yeah, more Andy would have been better, what little I saw of him was fucking great. (I guess he got a 10-ish second non-speaking cameo in Future where an npc gem was shown to be a better pilot than he was. Meh.)

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

They were retconed because Greg "always ran away from gem business" and "never protected Steven". And apparently no one ever looked out for Steven - they just sent him merrily into danger and were therefore completely irresponsible which is why he has broken bones and PTSD from the early seasons. And everyone can make mistakes except Pink Diamond who is apparently the one true villian of the series.

SUF was terrible in large part because of the retcons and the production crew's complete inability to fucking write a competent ending to save their professional lives.

I think the main problem with Steven Universe Future is that it was a show that people were expecting it would say something interesting, but it had already said everything it wanted to say so they had to regress the characters to create conflict.

Sugar's endgame was Pink's reveal and then Steven befriending the diamonds that's it. And the movie had already used the forgotten villain card with Spinel.

Personally, I think it was obvious they were in a corner so they had to make Steven had mental health issues because the story really couldn't move anywhere forward: The gem plot was over and Sugar didn't have any "secrets" or anything to expand the world.

Don't get me wrong, there are A LOT of things they could've done, like maybe more reveals or even a new villain, or have Pink face consequences for her action, but I think they simply didn't want to.

 

[Knojkamarangasan_#4]

When you put the Kevin and White Diamond incidents back to back, some disturbing implications are raised.

It doesn’t matter that Kevin was a bit of arrogant prick, what matters is that he had made Steven and Connie uncomfortable. It doesn’t matter that White Diamond was a tyrant with a caste system, she hurt Steven personally.

Sugar was right in that Steven wasn’t a forgiving person...to people who have slighted him. So long as you don’t bug him, you can commit murder and he’ll still forgive you.

It’s the JK Rowling school of presentation; make up stuff to make your work seem deeper than it actually is, even if nothing in the story backs it up or outright contradicts it.
Even then, Rowling still made an interesting world she explored in the actual story. Sugar relegates all the interesting stuff to interviews and made a season about mental health because she read a book about it.

At the end of the day Steven Universe main problem has and was always its writing, which very much seems to be a problem relating to how it's mainly a storyboard driven show from the stuff we'v heard. Maybe it can create some cool stuff in the moment but in the long run in creates huge inconsistencies which wouldn't be something people would care too much if it was just "the slice of life with magic show". But when the show presents itself as being serious and is obviously attempting to fit in a serious story in it all it just comes across as very lazy.

There is tons of stuff you can list in the end but overall as someone who has been following SU since 2014, the overall word would probably be wasted potential. There is so much potential lore and stuff you can do with it but in the end it all gets thrown out the window for some more "oh no lets take a break from everything and do a townie episode, also lets cry a lot and nobody is bad etc". On the positive side I am at least glad pink/Rose was never brought back. That was honestly a surprise. At the end of the day,, i'd say Steven universe suffer from a severe tonal iconsistencies and bad writing.

I remember back in the day seeing all these cool theories and speculation, the yellow diamond reveal, hints about lore etc but it all just went nowhere really. Like remember that Rose mural in the pyramid? What the heck was that all about? I still enjoyed Steven universe throughout its run but the problems just kept stacking on and on and instead of solutions they just added more and more new plot threads. If anything Steven universe is a prime example on how to not write a show based solely on story boarding. And the importance of good writing.

Spoiler: An autistic list of inconsistencies and abandoned potential: (There's TONS more but this is just some)

A small list of inconsistencies and abandoned potential: (There's TONS more but this is just some on the top of my head)
- Gem stuff being referred to as magic in earlier seasons and never mentioned again
- All the ancient gem stuff like the whaling stone
- The whole cluster arc
- The mess that was the Lapis redemption arc
- Jasper never really got a closure
- The whole off colors in space
- Gems who disagreed with Steven such as aquamarine
- The gems impact on other planets
- Background on gem society as a whole, creator. Whites comment on the "shades of light you are the part of me"
- Introducing a random mystery girl that never is seen again
- Gregs family (a mention in the LAST FUCKING EPISODES really?)
- Why the fuck is every human just okay with gem stuff?
- All the other mural things
- Weird stuff like introducing reality breaking time machines then abandoning them
- The whole era 2 vs era 3 thing
- "Homeworld is running out of resources" WHY?
- Why the fuck was the cluster created in the first place.
- So the famethyst and humans are just stuck on that space station forever?
- The earths map
- Bad fight animations
- Animation inconsistencies in general
-Ronaldo always being right but then abandoned with the snake thing
- "Stevens point of view" as a concept was awful and led to a very limited worldview.
- A severe lack of actual villains (Besides Kevin???)
- Steven having super buff gem power but no that bad also mental illness, like really? The thing with Jasper was actually promising for once.
- (Also maybe this is just me but) it was an interesting concept to see someone surrounded by femininity embracing his more masculine side but again lets throw all that cool stuff aside for more crying and hugging.
- Why the fuck do gems look like human women? There could have been some cool evolutionary(evangelion ish plot there but again who cares)
- The whole Pedee as a main character that they were building on in season 1 as a counterpart to Connie.
- Why was Pink so much smaller than the other diamonds?

 

[Private Pyle]

View attachment 1209354
"Aliens with a limited grasps on humanity = autistic representation"
-Rebecca "J.K. Rowling" Sugar

Not only that, but Amethyst and Bismuth actually display no autistic traits whatsoever, actually being willing to try new things and being fairly friendly with humans.
It’s so transparent how she’s trying to court every single part of the representation checklist now that the show is over. Even Rowling would tell her to quit while she’s ahead.

Why couldn't we have gotten some actual closure with Uncle Carl Andy in Future? I'm not gonna lie, he's my second favorite character of what I've seen of this entire show. (Like a lot of you, I agree that Greg is clearly the best character. That one episode of future that tried to make him look like an asshole didn't change my mind on him, and I'm glad he finally got the house in the end, he should have been living there all along.) But yeah, more Andy would have been better, what little I saw of him was fucking great. (I guess he got a 10-ish second non-speaking cameo in Future where an npc gem was shown to be a better pilot than he was. Meh.)

After that whole mess with Greg and his family, it’s probably for the best they left Andy alone. Future was not kind to many of the characters. The townies and gems who faded into the background are probably the lucky ones.

 

[UnKillFill]

After that whole mess with Greg and his family, it’s probably for the best they left Andy alone. Future was not kind to many of the characters. The townies and gems who faded into the background are probably the lucky ones.

Yeah, you're probably right.
Side note: If I had to guess, I'd bet that "Orange Man Bad" probably doesn't exist in the world with only "39 states"... But if he did, "Uncle" Andy would have totally voted for him.

 

[ufukiniggas]

Hold up. How much does of the rest if the world know about the existence of gems? All of these monster of the week episodes have been limited to just outside Beach City and random unnamed planets. After they were purified and rehabilitated they seem to just stick around and the townies are happy to take them in as employees or whatever, but y’know they’re used to it; the Crystal Gems have been a staple around town for hundreds of years, they’re a part of the town’s history. If one fucks off out of town, what are normies outside of this mess gonna think about it?

We are absolutely never shown the rest of the world and how it copes with monster attacks and sudden lesbian rock aliens. The whole “saving the world” thing means jack shit.

Now recall Greg mentioning he didn't take Steven to the doctor or school because of his Gem.

Then actually think about an upset baby Steven in kindergarten accidentally ripping some poor kid's arm off.

Also, Pearl did not pull out Steven's gem, but a doctor might - they might also call the Department of Family Services on the creepy guy who lives in a van and showed up with a baby that has no identification or information in the system or ... mother, but does have a large valuable piece of material shoved deep into it's body.

Also - Steven has no mitochondria so he is definitely becoming a science experiment if anyone fines out. Also healing body fluid.

lol wut

He forgave every character except for Kevin.

And his mother - the worst thing he could accuse his father of was being like his mother. And the hypocritical little ass decides to run away from home as well.

You know I'm kinda curious how Rebeca Sugar sees Pink Diamond.

Contrary to what Pearl said about things all being the result of "complicated factors beyond anyone's control", literally every Gem related bad thing that ever happened was caused by her acting like a spoiled child and then her literally roleplaying as her O.C hero gemsona.

By the usual Tumblr logic that judges people by intentions, not their actions (no matter how bad), that would put her as a misunderstood victim that simply wasn't aware of the damage she was causing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sugar didn't think Pink was a villain and just needed to "express her feelings" or something like that.

The simple fact of it is that Pink/Rose is the Easy Way to Solve All Problems - because she's dead. So there is never going to be a need to get her off the hook and instead she can be used to redeem everyone else. Bismuth was murderous and tried to kill a child? Rose is to blame. Eyeball tried to kill a child? Rose is to blame. The Diamonds have murdered multiple planets and gems and are assholes? Well,, they spent time being sad because... um... yeah Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz is a monster. Yeah!

Basically they threw Pink under the bus because redemption arcs and decent writing are hard.

 

[Private Pyle]

Now recall Greg mentioning he didn't take Steven to the doctor or school because of his Gem.

Then actually think about an upset baby Steven in kindergarten accidentally ripping some poor kid's arm off.

Also, Pearl did not pull out Steven's gem, but a doctor might - they might also call the Department of Family Services on the creepy guy who lives in a van and showed up with a baby that has no identification or information in the system or ... mother, but does have a large valuable piece of material shoved deep into it's body.

Also - Steven has no mitochondria so he is definitely becoming a science experiment if anyone fines out. Also healing body fluid.

When you lay out like this, Greg actually has very good reasons for doing what he did and isn’t the fuck up everyone is suddenly painting him as. In a show that actually cared about nuance and complexity, they would have brought this during Steven’s argument to make it seem less black and white.
Oh but they needed Greg to suddenly be a terrible father in order for Steven to unload on him. Because artificial drama is what’s really deep.

 

[UnKillFill]

You know what...? Even having missed out on a lot of context before it, (I saw a lot of the first few episodes, and most of the finale episodes, and random ones in-between.) I genuinely liked the Steven Universe movie. Spinel has a fun character design.

...

Greg was still a good father. One bad episode doesn't change that.

 

[northstar747]

you know what after seeing how adventure time went soo far up its own ass. to explain what was basically an interesting world to the seek out some profound moment, i m okay with the ending.

The movie was cute and having spenel sing stevens own advice back to him was honestly nice.

Hell steven and others going to terms with rose/pink having a dark side would be something.

 

[ufukiniggas]

The movie was shit. And I wish Spinel had been shattered like was originally planned.
Oh, well.

 

[The Pink Panther]

most steven universe haters suck Greg's dick too much

For me, it's Peridot...and Ronaldo

 

[Private Pyle]

most steven universe haters suck Greg's dick too much

For me, it's Peridot...and Ronaldo

It’s not just “haters” though; Greg was universally loved by the fanbase for seven years because he’s a good dad, down to earth, oddly relatable and one of the few genuinely sane cast members. The last three are especially important in a show like SU. So his fanbase is more than well deserved rather than mindless dicksucking.

I’m not even going to rag on your choice in Ronaldo because once again, he’s a good idea with poor execution. Someone actually interested in the supernatural ala Dipper or Dib and questioning the Gems would be interesting in exploring the human and Gem sides interacting; if only he wasn’t used for a cheap gag that overstays it’s welcome. And Peridot still has the one of the only good redemption arcs in the show even if I don’t agree with what was done with her later.