- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Yeah like it or hate it, there was something interesting about Get Out
Us was indeed fucking stupid though
Subverting Expectations: The Megathread - Or How Baby Dick Creators ‘Sort of Forgot’ What an Anti-Climax Is
- Thread starter Secret Asshole
- Start date
Us was indeed fucking stupid though
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2019
What was interesting about it? Isn't it just Black Twitter-conspiracy theories?
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2014
The concept of someone taking control of your body for any reason while you're still conscious is pretty solid for a horror movie.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I dunno if it was intentional or not, but I also got some "lefties who fetishize black people can be just as bad as white supremacists shouting nigger all day" meaning out of it as well. Beyond that, it was a horror movie done well enough.
Us was a fucking nonsense waste of time.
Speaking of subversions, I'm currently working my way through Ben Bova's very long Grand Tour series of novels because I'm a sucker for space exploration sci-fi (also found out he passed away just last year before finishing what would presumably be the end of the series, so RIP). I'm going in release order, and I'm still pretty early in the series; chronologically they're all over the place, but generally move forward in time.
Anyway, I don't know if anyone particularly cares about spoilers for a book 20+ years old, but just in case, I'll put them under a tag.
First, a note about the series proper: The novels in the series are all in the same shared universe, but generally follow different characters in each novel. Sometimes characters return in another book, and sometimes there are mini-series in the overarching narrative. There's action, intrigue, romance, all the stuff you'd want out of a book. Not to mention that men are men and women are women, and nobody's shy about that. Dangerhairs would hate them, I'm sure.
The book I'm currently on is Moonrise, number three or four in release order. The "first" book, Privateers, was written before the collapse of the USSR, so it has Soviets trying to take over all space operations; events from the book seem to be referenced later on, but Bova never specified if it was still canon to the series, and later books just have them replaced with Russians. Hence, this is third or fourth. Anyway, the general plot of Moonrise revolves around the first permanent lunar colony and the struggles to both get it operational and keep it from being shut down.
So one common thread among these novels is a strong male lead, very gung-ho about space exploration. Moonrise opens with the lead character having barely survived an attempt on his life through rogue nanomachines, struggling across the lunar surface to reach safety before his air gives out, determined to get back to Earth and get revenge on the man who tried to kill him. The first part of the book is this narrative interspersed with the events that led there, until the prelude finally catches up and shows the murder attempt, just as the present-time character gets to a shelter to regroup.
And then, just as he's about to make it back to Moonbase, it turns out that he wasn't safe after all, and the nanomachines were just dormant until they reactivated and began to eat through his suit. Realizing he'd only destroy Moonbase and kill everyone inside if he tried to go any further, he sends out a message not to come near, tells his wife he loves her, then cracks the seal on his helmet before the nanomachines can devour him painfully.
I only just finished the first part so I'm don't know yet who the protagonist will be from here on, but I found that subversion interesting. You think that you're gonna follow this protagonist in the mold of the other novels' main characters, up to the point where he makes a heroic trek to reach safety and begin his revenge, and then bam, struck down at the last minute. I'm definitely interested to see what comes next, and it just goes to show what a talented author can do with a subversion.
The book I'm currently on is Moonrise, number three or four in release order. The "first" book, Privateers, was written before the collapse of the USSR, so it has Soviets trying to take over all space operations; events from the book seem to be referenced later on, but Bova never specified if it was still canon to the series, and later books just have them replaced with Russians. Hence, this is third or fourth. Anyway, the general plot of Moonrise revolves around the first permanent lunar colony and the struggles to both get it operational and keep it from being shut down.
So one common thread among these novels is a strong male lead, very gung-ho about space exploration. Moonrise opens with the lead character having barely survived an attempt on his life through rogue nanomachines, struggling across the lunar surface to reach safety before his air gives out, determined to get back to Earth and get revenge on the man who tried to kill him. The first part of the book is this narrative interspersed with the events that led there, until the prelude finally catches up and shows the murder attempt, just as the present-time character gets to a shelter to regroup.
And then, just as he's about to make it back to Moonbase, it turns out that he wasn't safe after all, and the nanomachines were just dormant until they reactivated and began to eat through his suit. Realizing he'd only destroy Moonbase and kill everyone inside if he tried to go any further, he sends out a message not to come near, tells his wife he loves her, then cracks the seal on his helmet before the nanomachines can devour him painfully.
I only just finished the first part so I'm don't know yet who the protagonist will be from here on, but I found that subversion interesting. You think that you're gonna follow this protagonist in the mold of the other novels' main characters, up to the point where he makes a heroic trek to reach safety and begin his revenge, and then bam, struck down at the last minute. I'm definitely interested to see what comes next, and it just goes to show what a talented author can do with a subversion.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2014
Oh that was definitely also an angle they were going for. The blind man also literally "can't see color" which is something insufferable people say. If you really aren't a bigot you don't need to say you don't care what the color of a person's skin is. Actions speak louder than words. I mean you can say it but it feels like someone is defending themselves if they do.
All in all I like it because it's just a pretty solid horror movie. Also the girlfriend not wanting the cop to question the main black character was foreshadowing that she didn't want the authorities to know where he is. Fun little tidbit I read a while back.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2021
Jordan Peele is a one trick pony that ran out of ideas in his first outing.
Everything he has done since Get Out has tried to replicate its appeal and failed miserably. Us is a fucking mess in every way possible, its narrative and themes make no fucking sense whatsoever. In less than a decade the man has reduced himself to a race grifter that makes shitty IdPol remakes of beloved classics.
The fact that he gets praised as a "modern master of horror" by journoscum and movie snobs is proof we live in clown world.
Everything he has done since Get Out has tried to replicate its appeal and failed miserably. Us is a fucking mess in every way possible, its narrative and themes make no fucking sense whatsoever. In less than a decade the man has reduced himself to a race grifter that makes shitty IdPol remakes of beloved classics.
The fact that he gets praised as a "modern master of horror" by journoscum and movie snobs is proof we live in clown world.
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
So I rewatched Looper. A Rian Johnson ‘joint’ that I remembered as a good execution of a simultaneously neat/dumb premise.
And looking back it is pretty good. Very layered. Good visual and audio storytelling. All of which have some obvious payoff. You can miss them and know what’s happening, just not all of what’s happening and how it all melds together.
There’s a scene where the main character has time with a hooker girl he’s sweet on. She doesn’t really like him. So it starts with her checking her time-piece, with an ambiguous look on her face, putting on her makeup, and then walking down a mirrored hallway. Acting and directing decisions coming together to tell you she isn’t really into this well before she outright says she’s not interested in being with Joe directly to him. This all happening when our main character is questioning his lifestyle, undergoing ennui and weariness with it. All of that. This too is another fake, unsatisfying thing.
What’s funny is that there is no subversion. At least not in the way he’s become notorious for. Jeff Daniels explains that he knows Joe the main character so well that he can manipulate him just by promising to take some of his savings away. This to coerce him into surrending his friend. Joe agrees, albeit with his arms tied, because he is a selfish guy. And by the end he kills himself to close his own loop because he has clarity on the damage he is causing. Pretty much a stock, servicable anti-hero story and ending.
All of these suggestions, both in the A plot and the little asides, are set up then payed off. They feel surprising because the plot moves quickly enough that you forget there was a set up until it's paid off. Because the story is actually confident in itself.
And looking back it is pretty good. Very layered. Good visual and audio storytelling. All of which have some obvious payoff. You can miss them and know what’s happening, just not all of what’s happening and how it all melds together.
There’s a scene where the main character has time with a hooker girl he’s sweet on. She doesn’t really like him. So it starts with her checking her time-piece, with an ambiguous look on her face, putting on her makeup, and then walking down a mirrored hallway. Acting and directing decisions coming together to tell you she isn’t really into this well before she outright says she’s not interested in being with Joe directly to him. This all happening when our main character is questioning his lifestyle, undergoing ennui and weariness with it. All of that. This too is another fake, unsatisfying thing.
What’s funny is that there is no subversion. At least not in the way he’s become notorious for. Jeff Daniels explains that he knows Joe the main character so well that he can manipulate him just by promising to take some of his savings away. This to coerce him into surrending his friend. Joe agrees, albeit with his arms tied, because he is a selfish guy. And by the end he kills himself to close his own loop because he has clarity on the damage he is causing. Pretty much a stock, servicable anti-hero story and ending.
All of these suggestions, both in the A plot and the little asides, are set up then payed off. They feel surprising because the plot moves quickly enough that you forget there was a set up until it's paid off. Because the story is actually confident in itself.
Dafrunk89
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2018
I don't know if this counts. It's not about a sudden twist, it's not about taking a narrative turn or going against the overall "feel" of the story either, but it still kind of feels like one. I'm talking about Martin Scorsese's Silence, which is a movie that rocked my world.
If anyone is even remotely interested in seeing it, which I do recommend, I'll mark it as a spoiler just in case.
...and the movie did it so damn well, it absolutely destroyed everything "outside" to the point where I couldn't think about anything else than what was going on inside the person - as well as myself. I thought I was watching movie X at first, but it turned out I was watching movie Y. It wasn't even a cheap trick, it felt really natural. I have to say that I have never been this impressed and so moved by a movie before. Not many people like Silence, not that many even saw it, but for me it's fucking breathtaking. I have no idea if it requires someone to be even a least bit religious to really get this experience, but it certainly helped me.
If anyone is even remotely interested in seeing it, which I do recommend, I'll mark it as a spoiler just in case.
During the story, we see Rodriguez fighting for what he believes in. Everything around him slowly crumbles. It's fucking awful to watch, and you want to root for the guy. Something good must come out of it. But no, things get even worse. People die horribly, Christianity seems to be more of a death sentence than salvation in these lands, and Rodrigues starts to actually doubt God in ways he wasn't prepared for, at all. It seems there's nothing for him to fall back on. And if that's not enough, his old mentor Liam fucking Neeson starts hammering in the final nails with a speech that the most enthusiastic anti-theists could only envy. At this point in the movie, the "bad guys" and the points they make - no matter how much they torture people - start to seem reasonable. Near the end, Rodrigues is breaking, everything has gone to shit, there's nothing left, except him being seemingly the only one left who confesses Christianity. Perhaps more out of pride and fear than rigorous faith, but still. Surely now is the time when something happens? Surely all of that suffering can't be in vain? Can we get some relief now? No we can't. We see our protagonist stepping on an image of Christ and renouncing Him. And everyone who died and suffered, did so because he didn't do it earlier.
We're not used to seeing that. We're used to seeing movies where everything goes to shit, but not quite like this, because we're following a character very closely that doesn't really get those glimpses of hope at any point, it was a steady slide towards shit. It wasn't a twist that everything went to shit, it was inevitable the whole time, but still the movie made me think that it can't be like this. The way follow this character and the horrible tests and doubts he goes through, I was absolutely fooled to think that it will pay off. But it didn't. But that was because I didn't fully understand what kind of a movie it was. It wasn't just about someone's gloomy journey towards doom that had no point outside of cultural warfare and/or pride. When the movie finally ended, sometime after this "climax" (and when we see Rodrigues living in Japan as an apostate until he dies, which is a very important part that I won't spoil further) I understood the point of it better; it was about the essence of faith and what it means when everything around it is stripped away. It wasn't about torture and failure as much it was about the inward struggle (that was so well portrayed by everything happening outside) of faith and what remains when all our temples fall and crumble into dust.
We're not used to seeing that. We're used to seeing movies where everything goes to shit, but not quite like this, because we're following a character very closely that doesn't really get those glimpses of hope at any point, it was a steady slide towards shit. It wasn't a twist that everything went to shit, it was inevitable the whole time, but still the movie made me think that it can't be like this. The way follow this character and the horrible tests and doubts he goes through, I was absolutely fooled to think that it will pay off. But it didn't. But that was because I didn't fully understand what kind of a movie it was. It wasn't just about someone's gloomy journey towards doom that had no point outside of cultural warfare and/or pride. When the movie finally ended, sometime after this "climax" (and when we see Rodrigues living in Japan as an apostate until he dies, which is a very important part that I won't spoil further) I understood the point of it better; it was about the essence of faith and what it means when everything around it is stripped away. It wasn't about torture and failure as much it was about the inward struggle (that was so well portrayed by everything happening outside) of faith and what remains when all our temples fall and crumble into dust.
...and the movie did it so damn well, it absolutely destroyed everything "outside" to the point where I couldn't think about anything else than what was going on inside the person - as well as myself. I thought I was watching movie X at first, but it turned out I was watching movie Y. It wasn't even a cheap trick, it felt really natural. I have to say that I have never been this impressed and so moved by a movie before. Not many people like Silence, not that many even saw it, but for me it's fucking breathtaking. I have no idea if it requires someone to be even a least bit religious to really get this experience, but it certainly helped me.
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Product Placement
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
Us would have been fine if he didn't try to explain everything. Sometimes not knowing is better than knowing especially in horror and even more so when the explanation doesn't make any sense.
- Joined
- May 25, 2018
The only good thing about "Us" was Lupita Nyong'o's performance. Literally everything else about the movie was really dumb and not good.
And I'm saying this as someone who really liked Get Out.
And I'm saying this as someone who really liked Get Out.
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
I won’t hold that last part against you. What even was the gimmick or twist about Us anyway?
- Joined
- May 25, 2018
Something something slaves ... Something something underground railroad ... Something something convoluted and on-the-nose allegory for "black people sad"
Been almost 3 years since I saw the movie. lol.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
It was apparently the government had a secret underground lair where somehow the us government thought it was a good idea to just clone every American and then discontinued the project yet for some reason kept feeding the clones underground. Main villain was the real Lupita while the one with the family was the clone who switched places with her when she was a kid
- Joined
- May 25, 2018
I don't know where else to put this (and I don't think it's deserving of its own thread), but I currently have a series that I am hate-watching right now: The Sex and The City Spinoff, "And Just Like That."
In regards to Sex and The City, here's my opinion on it: It's raunchy, girly escapist entertainment that females watch together on a girls night in. I don't think it's this great and fantastic show, nor do I think it's the worst thing ever made. The original series is fine. The movies are cringe, though. That said, at least the movies tried to be something that encouraged "girls night out" when they were out in theaters, as bad and as dumb as they were.
And Just Like That pulls the "subversion of expectations" thing by leading the fans of the original series to think that it's going to be a fun show. It's not. It's miserable, it's annoying, it's beyond soapbox-y, and the fans are absolutely hating it! The show is basically about death with tons of wokeness sprinkled throughout. The writers are all millennials who think that people in their 50's are basically all one foot into the grave. There was a whole episode dedicated to Sarah Jessica Parker getting hip replacement surgery and was hopping around on a cane throughout the first half of it. How fun! The Golden Girls acted younger than this.
It's so bad that I'm hate-watching it, much like how a bunch of people hate-watch a series like Batwoman. It's a woke and out-of-touch trainwreck that I simply can't look away from. Don't worry though: I'm not giving HBO Max any streams, if you catch my drift.
All I have to ask about the series is this: After what has been happening to the world since 2020, I can guarantee you that the last thing that people wanted was a new Sex and The City show that was about death that preaches at you with basically every single scene. What were these people thinking?!
Just to give a taste of the horrible-ness of the series: There is a part where Charlotte's daughter no longer identifies as a girl, and so she proceeds to change her name to everyone in school (unbeknownst to her own parents). The daughter's teachers lecture Charlotte about how SHE needs to deal with it despite being entirely bypassed as a parent on the name change. What's the message, here? That teachers can bypass the parents and raise the kids instead? Ludicrous and gross.
In regards to Sex and The City, here's my opinion on it: It's raunchy, girly escapist entertainment that females watch together on a girls night in. I don't think it's this great and fantastic show, nor do I think it's the worst thing ever made. The original series is fine. The movies are cringe, though. That said, at least the movies tried to be something that encouraged "girls night out" when they were out in theaters, as bad and as dumb as they were.
And Just Like That pulls the "subversion of expectations" thing by leading the fans of the original series to think that it's going to be a fun show. It's not. It's miserable, it's annoying, it's beyond soapbox-y, and the fans are absolutely hating it! The show is basically about death with tons of wokeness sprinkled throughout. The writers are all millennials who think that people in their 50's are basically all one foot into the grave. There was a whole episode dedicated to Sarah Jessica Parker getting hip replacement surgery and was hopping around on a cane throughout the first half of it. How fun! The Golden Girls acted younger than this.
It's so bad that I'm hate-watching it, much like how a bunch of people hate-watch a series like Batwoman. It's a woke and out-of-touch trainwreck that I simply can't look away from. Don't worry though: I'm not giving HBO Max any streams, if you catch my drift.
All I have to ask about the series is this: After what has been happening to the world since 2020, I can guarantee you that the last thing that people wanted was a new Sex and The City show that was about death that preaches at you with basically every single scene. What were these people thinking?!
Just to give a taste of the horrible-ness of the series: There is a part where Charlotte's daughter no longer identifies as a girl, and so she proceeds to change her name to everyone in school (unbeknownst to her own parents). The daughter's teachers lecture Charlotte about how SHE needs to deal with it despite being entirely bypassed as a parent on the name change. What's the message, here? That teachers can bypass the parents and raise the kids instead? Ludicrous and gross.
- Joined
- May 25, 2018
Update on the new Sex & The City series:
It keeps getting worse. It's almost impressive at this point.
Last week's episode took the cake. It involved Charlotte slamming her husband down on the ground during a fun couples tennis match, and then calling him a "mansplainer" when he asked for an apology. It also involved Miranda happily cheating on her husband for some "Non-Binary" bulldyke (who is the worst, most unfunny character in any form of media of all time, good god almighty), and the show plays off her actions as being completely OK because "she's finally finding herself." The show also shows the husband being a bumbling idiot who annoys his wife with his hearing problems. Clearly, if you are a man who has something medically "wrong" with you, then you get what you deserve?
Flip the genders in these two situations, and I'm sure the show would have depicted this shit in a very different light.
These characters are despicable and horrible people.
It keeps getting worse. It's almost impressive at this point.
Last week's episode took the cake. It involved Charlotte slamming her husband down on the ground during a fun couples tennis match, and then calling him a "mansplainer" when he asked for an apology. It also involved Miranda happily cheating on her husband for some "Non-Binary" bulldyke (who is the worst, most unfunny character in any form of media of all time, good god almighty), and the show plays off her actions as being completely OK because "she's finally finding herself." The show also shows the husband being a bumbling idiot who annoys his wife with his hearing problems. Clearly, if you are a man who has something medically "wrong" with you, then you get what you deserve?
Flip the genders in these two situations, and I'm sure the show would have depicted this shit in a very different light.
These characters are despicable and horrible people.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2015
Never watched Sex & The City and never will but this new crap sounds unbelievably awful. Every series that involves woke queer/troon/enby crap doesn't deserve to be watched because it's nothing but filth.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
That can work. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia did that. Seinfeld was an earlier version.
The problem is now the characters are shitty monsters but you're supposed to consider them brave and beautiful or some bullshit because of the fact they have some fetish.
Sexual Chocolate
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2019
I've never watched Sex In The City because I'm a heterosexual man, but I noticed it was a red flag 20 years ago. Every (then-) twenty something woman I knew who liked it turned to be some kind of emotionally unstable narcissist with chlamydia. I guess their audience has now aged into the bitter wine aunt demographic and the showrunners are just giving them what they want.
Michael Janke
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2021
in another life, tareeq nasheed would have gotten an academy award for making this movie.