Tabletop Community Watch

[Shaka Brah]

If it's the book I'm thinking (New World, right?), I must have missed that part. Now I'm morbidly curious.

Yeah NWoD Changing Breeds. I'd have to go back and take another look at it but it's probably the most hated W:tF sourcebook.

 

[PaladinBoo]

Rate me late if this has already been shared, it's several months old now, but this was linked to on another article that came up in recommendations on my phone's browser - D&D as a safe space for "queer" players. I'm convinced D&D is well and truly lost, and wouldn't be surprised if others were also looking for alternatives to it as the genderspecials have taken it over completely. And having played so much 5e I can say I'm well and truly sick of it, but it's all that ever seems to be going on in terms of TTRPGs, both in my online and real life communities, as it's simple enough that anyone can play, so no wonder it went mainstream and the woke crowd took over.

Take my advice, go to OSR. There isn't a lot of woke crap in them, they are much better balanced, more satisfying in gameplay, challenges the player rather than the character, and most of the Tumblr and Twitter weirdos avoid OSR like the plague as they think it is "too hard" and "too toxic". If you like some of the campaigns from 5e (Some of them are not bad, it is just they are tied down with 5e crappy system and balancing) then you can easily change the system to a system used with OSR.

 

[Troonologist PhD]

Yeah NWoD Changing Breeds. I'd have to go back and take another look at it but it's probably the most hated W:tF sourcebook.

Changing Breeds is so bad that the W:tF people refused to let their game on the cover, so it's just a general NWoD sourcebook. It was the most hated sourcebook until Beast: the Primordial came out. At CB isn't a rapist's self-insert fantasy, and I am not exaggerating with that. Despite being the most hated Chronicles/NWoD game it also has large number of troon fans, because of course it does.

 

[SITHRAK!]

For most fans, (fans of 3rd-7th edition) it died when the Primaris Marines showed up in 2017. And for fans of the 1st and 2nd editions Warhammer, it died with 3rd Edition appeared in 1998.

Original 40k player from ‘88 here. Loved RT, liked 2nd, liked 3rd, loved 4th, hated every fucking page from 5th onwards.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Original 40k player from ‘88 here. Loved RT, liked 2nd, liked 3rd, loved 4th, hated every fucking page from 5th onwards.

Interesting. I didn't know that fans of 3rd and 4th edition have so much to hate with 5th edition.

 

[SITHRAK!]

Interesting. I didn't know that fans of 3rd and 4th edition have so much to hate with 5th edition.

I can only speak to my experience, but 4th was something of a refreshing departure from the ‘rush to assault’ of 3rd. It meant maneuver and psychology became important aspects of the game.

5th then not only went back to first-turn-assault as a holy grail, but also introduced stupid shit like first-turn deep strike assaults. A lot of the simplicity and subtlety that Andy Chambers brought to fourth was abandoned for yet more boring ’first turn advance, second turn assault’ crap.

In my opinion, 4th was as balanced and stable as 40k ever got. Cityfight in particular was a fucking fantastic supplement and Armageddon was stupidly fun. Every version since has gotten more complex and less fun, and the final indignity is the stupidity of incorporating the Age of Sigmar combat resolution system.

 

[Ghostse]

Take my advice, go to OSR. There isn't a lot of woke crap in them, they are much better balanced, more satisfying in gameplay, challenges the player rather than the character, and most of the Tumblr and Twitter weirdos avoid OSR like the plague as they think it is "too hard" and "too toxic". If you like some of the campaigns from 5e (Some of them are not bad, it is just they are tied down with 5e crappy system and balancing) then you can easily change the system to a system used with OSR.

There is woketard shit in OSR but its greatly reduced because math is cis-oppression.
But even when included... Sure go ahead and roll up a dangerhair gender fluid dwarf... oh no your super special gender snowflake is dead in the first room oh no roll up another character and please include another 5 page back story about gender oppression please do.

 

[Shaka Brah]

Changing Breeds is so bad that the W:tF people refused to let their game on the cover, so it's just a general NWoD sourcebook. It was the most hated sourcebook until Beast: the Primordial came out. At CB isn't a rapist's self-insert fantasy, and I am not exaggerating with that. Despite being the most hated Chronicles/NWoD game it also has large number of troon fans, because of course it does.

They use the term "therian" which is an otherkin thing from the 90s and 00s, and do it completely without irony. You know it's gonna be good when you see something like that in a book.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

Reminds me; you know what actually got me looking into the 40k rabbit hole way back in the long long ago? A kitbashed 2nd edition marines army called "The Sons of Elvis". It's exactly what it sounds like (with the exception of the Chaplain, which for some reason was modeled after Little Richard). I bought a copy of 1st Edition Space Hulk that very convention.

I remember seeing pictures of that back in the old AOL / Netzero days.

 

[Wormy]

I remember seeing pictures of that back in the old AOL / Netzero days.

Couldn't find any online pictures of it remaining though. Was worried for a second it was just a fever dream

 

[Imperial Citizen]

I suppose so. But from my perspective, the more likely outcome is that they'll have Rowboat Girlyman turn progressive, since he already hates the Imperium as it is:

"Why do I still live? What more do you want from me? I gave everything I had to you, to them. Look what they've made of our dream. This bloated, rotting carcass of an empire is driven not by reason and hope but by fear, hate and ignorance. Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than live to see this.

We failed, father. You failed your sons, and we in turn failed you. And now, to compound our arrogance and vainglory we have failed all of them too. Did Horus not say you sought godhood? He built his rebellion on that claim. Oh how he would gloat and laugh at the state of the imperium now."

He's already GW's answer to Rey; a hero who has everything in his power to change things for the better. So once the traditionalists and the back-stabbing ass-kissers in the Imperium turn against him and launch a civil war with him, Guilliman will use it as an excuse to purge the Imperium of every backward, retrograde, traditionalist influence, and GW will use it to purge any "problematic" elements in the Imperium and have Guilliman be Mr. Rational, arranging an alliance with aliens like the Eldar, while having Belisarius Cawl innovate more new tech for the military. Guilliman will then go off eradicating the more fundamentalist parts of the Imperium, to create what amounts to an enlightened despot state that the normies can love without being called fascists. Instead of Space Nazis, they'll have Frederick the Great in space, now with more tolerance for those filthy xenos.

Mark my words. They'll turn 40K into an SJW agitprop eventually. Especially since it makes them lots of money, ever since 8th Edition dropped:

Games Workshop Group PLC, GAW:LSE financials - FT.com

Games Workshop Group PLC (GAW:LSE) financials, including income statements, growth rates, balance sheets and cash flow information.

markets.ft.com

You think Guilliman could transform the Imperium? After he left Terra for the Indomitus Crusade, a bunch of High Lords launched a coup which was brought low only by the full might of the Minotaurs chapter and the Officio Assassinorum. Guilliman distrust Cawl and views him as borderline heretekal. He knows that he can’t remove the Ecclesiarchy and has started reading the Lectitio Divinitatus, possibly beginning to believe in the divinity of the God-Emperor.

Guilliman is an administrator. He’s no warlord, no charismatic despot. He only got the Imperium to accept the Primaris by the backing of the Custodes. He might be able to make the Imperium more efficient but he will not be able to stop its barbarism and decay.

 

[Kongo-Müller]

New drama in Nu TSR land: TSR has launched a $50k crowdfunding campaign to sue Wizards of the Coast (Archive)

What are they suing them for? Well, I'll let them speak for themselves:

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership. TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


Prediction: They will fall way short of their target, fail with their litigation, and the donations will simply vanish in the pockets of the TTRPG grifters orbiting Nu TSR.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Yeah NWoD Changing Breeds. I'd have to go back and take another look at it but it's probably the most hated W:tF sourcebook.

You left out that not only does it reek of fetish, it's also horrendously unbalanced.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

We all saw this, right?

Support TSR against Wizards of the Coast | Indiegogo

archived 8 Dec 2021 15:26:41 UTC

archive.fo

TSR, the new one that got canceled by wokies for the crime of Gary Gygax Jr saying he wanted to make an old school game without modern shit like gender idpol crap in it, is apparently suing WoTC. This is after WoTC employees were absolutely 100% involved in getting TSR and Gygax Jr banned from all conventions, publishing contracts blocked, getting people to quit working for them to avoid being blacklisted, etc etc.

It LOOKS like they're suing in part becuase WoTC is using TSR's trademark with older games (which WoTC no longer owns and thus cannot use without permission), and partially because the WoTC woke performative "disclaimer" claims in part that the TSR products were all horrifically racist and bigoted and yadda yadda... which kinda implies the TSR guys were horrifically racist and bigoted and yadda yadda.

This seems like a... odd way of going about it. They need to just file a defamation lawsuit, but they can't, because WoTC is just going to hide behind the "it's just our opinion you're nazis and white supremacists and hate women and poor innocent minorities wot are too stupid to be treated the same as everyone else" shield.

 

[Shaka Brah]

You left out that not only does it reek of fetish, it's also horrendously unbalanced.

I struggle to call anything released late in the NWoD life-cycle balanced. Without much more than the starting 3 dots in abilities a Geist could kill any supernatural except a Mage and Geist was an otherwise great book.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You think Guilliman could transform the Imperium? After he left Terra for the Indomitus Crusade, a bunch of High Lords launched a coup which was brought low only by the full might of the Minotaurs chapter and the Officio Assassinorum. Guilliman distrust Cawl and views him as borderline heretekal. He knows that he can’t remove the Ecclesiarchy and has started reading the Lectitio Divinitatus, possibly beginning to believe in the divinity of the God-Emperor.

Guilliman is an administrator. He’s no warlord, no charismatic despot. He only got the Imperium to accept the Primaris by the backing of the Custodes. He might be able to make the Imperium more efficient but he will not be able to stop its barbarism and decay.

That attempted coup will justify Guilliman striking back and reforming the Imperium his way, to a way of thinking more along the lines of the Ultramarines. Even if he thinks that Cawl is a borderline heretic, he still uses the stuff Cawl made, like the Primaris Marines and the hovertanks, so it seems that Guilliman puts utility over his own opinions. He'll obviously hang on to the Imperial Cult, because outside of human sacrifices, prayers help keep his dad alive, but he'll probably re-work its beliefs to be more in line with what his father wanted for humans, for them to see the good in each other and resist Chaos.

That, and this wouldn't be the first time we see a major change that doesn't make sense lore-wise; the Primaris Marines broke the lore in half like an egg, but they're accepted in anyways because they sell well and people like to play them in the Tabletop, even though logically, they should have caused a massive civil war within the Imperium, with many Astartes chapters calling bullshit. Instead, most Astartes chapters just accepted the new reinforcements willingly with little resistance, which doesn't make sense lore-wise.

40K, in the end, is a tabletop game; the lore is a flimsy, non-canon excuse plot to justify everyone fighting everyone, and if the newer crowd wants a progressive Imperium that makes logical alliances with some elements among the Eldar and the Tau while waging wars against Chaos, hostile Xenos, and the backwards, retarded parts of the Imperium, they'll get it, because the lore takes a back seat to the tabletop game. If they want to turn 40K into an edgelord version of Mass Effect, they'll do it. They turned the Space Marines from a warning about fascism into capeshit-style superheroes that mix elements of the Punisher, the Hulk, and Iron Man, so they can change other parts of the lore as well, including factions.

This isn't Star Wars Legends, where not only is there a rigid canon structure, but the lore and story content of any given game is actually more important than the actual gameplay. And even in SW Legends, villain factions like the Empire reformed into a more benign system, so it wouldn't be that hard to imagine GW doing the same to the Imperium to make it more appealing to the normie crowd.

After all, the only people who will blow their fudge over such a change are the lore nuts, and they barely even buy models anyways, let alone play games. The grognards and tournament whales will keep buying whatever just so long as they can paint minis and use them in tournaments.

 

[Ghostse]

We all saw this, right?

View attachment 2784514

Support TSR against Wizards of the Coast | Indiegogo

archived 8 Dec 2021 15:26:41 UTC

archive.fo

View attachment 2784519
View attachment 2784520
View attachment 2784521

TSR, the new one that got canceled by wokies for the crime of Gary Gygax Jr saying he wanted to make an old school game without modern shit like gender idpol crap in it, is apparently suing WoTC. This is after WoTC employees were absolutely 100% involved in getting TSR and Gygax Jr banned from all conventions, publishing contracts blocked, getting people to quit working for them to avoid being blacklisted, etc etc.

It LOOKS like they're suing in part becuase WoTC is using TSR's trademark with older games (which WoTC no longer owns and thus cannot use without permission), and partially because the WoTC woke performative "disclaimer" claims in part that the TSR products were all horrifically racist and bigoted and yadda yadda... which kinda implies the TSR guys were horrifically racist and bigoted and yadda yadda.

This seems like a... odd way of going about it. They need to just file a defamation lawsuit, but they can't, because WoTC is just going to hide behind the "it's just our opinion you're nazis and white supremacists and hate women and poor innocent minorities wot are too stupid to be treated the same as everyone else" shield.

While I hate WOTC and want them to die in the fire of troons and faggots they have created, their limp-wristed Soy Sperg is something I don't take issue with. To rephrase a bit, I hate it but I can't blame them for its necessity, that's a larger culture issue.
They aren't censoring or retracting so I can accept it.

Also TSR, Jr. with their weird cyberhippie setting is not run by stable minds. I'd rather take that money and go find a Voodoo Temple and have them cast a curse on WOTC, since that's more likely to bring negative consequences than funding this lolsuit.

I do enjoy seeing Gygax Jr. being force fed the red pill suppository.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

I do enjoy seeing Gygax Jr. being force fed the red pill suppository.

It was certainly interesting seeing Gygax Jr. and co discover that a completely harmless "we just want to make classic games" comment be turned into a successful character assassination by people who are VERY VERY INTERESTED in making sure classic games as an alternative to their own "D&D 6.0: Now with Generfluid Elfsluts, take THAT you fucking disgusting gamers" official soy based D&D imitation product do not, and can never, exist.

Having said that.

https://twitter.com/WFDgames/status/1466502789304094725

wat

 

[Wormy]

Hey TSR; do a re-issue of Divine Right and Revolt on Antares and I'll back any cause you wanna go with.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Even if he thinks that Cawl is a borderline heretic

I'm probably way too late to start thinking about this now, but if the emp and the primarchs barring Lorgar were all militant atheists, and were well-used to hover tech that the m41 imperium lost, how much of a 'heretic' would Guilliman accuse anyone of being?

They turned the Space Marines from a warning about fascism into capeshit-style superheroes that mix elements of the Punisher, the Hulk, and Iron Man

You forgot someone.

Spoiler

Also, nuTSR = hyperautists. I'd cheer on someone who wanted to chip away at WotCs monolith, but only if they had at least half a functioning brain.