Tabletop Community Watch

[Kofi Drinka]

First impressions look at the OPR box set from someone who seems to be a genuine backer and not some sort of shill (he is pretty biased towards OPR, but i meant that he isnt sponsored)

TL;DW the quality is pretty solid and there were no bent pieces, seems to be of a softer plastic than regular sprue models (some pieces are bendable and they include a guide on how to straighten bent pieces) but they seem to be about as detailed as their resin STL counterparts (from my observation), Only issue is that it seems like its meant for true uber noobs so no assembly required including the big pieces, so some of those are a bit janky to paint. the accoutrements that were included (tokens, dice, cards etc) were all of good quality.

Im going to have a slight chuckle if a random portuguese furry who got around 500k does better quality products than the industry veterans at TC who got 5 million

He's a total OPR fanboy. His channel is nothing but OPR and "Can OPR beat warhammer" type videos.

If the minis are just PVC stuff based on the 3d prints then that's good enough. Doesn't need to be anything more. And he's not the type to outright lie even if he is way too invested in OPR usually.

 

[Adamska]

So long as it doesn't arrive broken consistently or shit out poisonous caustic resin years later, then it's better than TC by far.

Pure copium for the "Warhams Killer" mindset since it requires defeating sunk-cost mindsets and having something equating to store and table game access, which would be hard. But becoming a part of that niche where people might actually play it enough to eat into the market and have its role? Very doable.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

He's a total OPR fanboy. His channel is nothing but OPR and "Can OPR beat warhammer" type videos.

If the minis are just PVC stuff based on the 3d prints then that's good enough. Doesn't need to be anything more. And he's not the type to outright lie even if he is way too invested in OPR usually.

So long as it doesn't arrive broken consistently or shit out poisonous caustic resin years later, then it's better than TC by far.

Pure copium for the "Warhams Killer" mindset since it requires defeating sunk-cost mindsets and having something equating to store and table game access, which would be hard. But becoming a part of that niche where people might actually play it enough to eat into the market and have its role? Very doable.

Pretty much, im not expecting it to kill or dent Warhammer at all within its lifetime as a product, but the comparison to TC in regards to it being an indie tabletop IP trying to break into the scene. Its more or less having the same evolution, a mini agnostic game with self-made 3d printable options breaking into the store scene in different manners, TC is seemingly doing the wrong moves throughout while OPR has been getting some successes in spite of a much more modest warchest and hype. The comparison is fascinating, OPR itself made some of the same mistakes as TC (trusting onlygames), but it swiftly corrected them and seems to be on the right path, while TC is resting on its laurels and comfy 5 million while constantly alienating its playarbase (political retardation, shitty and now discontinued STLs, preorder woes, onlygames being retarded, lack of options in plastic. etc etc)

 

[p1138]

Pretty much, im not expecting it to kill or dent Warhammer at all within its lifetime as a product, but the comparison to TC in regards to it being an indie tabletop IP trying to break into the scene. Its more or less having the same evolution, a mini agnostic game with self-made 3d printable options breaking into the store scene in different manners, TC is seemingly doing the wrong moves throughout while OPR has been getting some successes in spite of a much more modest warchest and hype. The comparison is fascinating, OPR itself made some of the same mistakes as TC (trusting onlygames), but it swiftly corrected them and seems to be on the right path, while TC is resting on its laurels and comfy 5 million while constantly alienating its playarbase (political retardation, shitty and now discontinued STLs, preorder woes, onlygames being retarded, lack of options in plastic. etc etc)

OPR has had this box in the works for months, with samples sent to youtube people ages ago, long before TC realized they needed to get something together for retail. At least they seem to have had the brains to pull the brakes on it, and make sure it wasn't a shit product for whatever reason before actually going to retail. TC really could have been learning from the mistakes of OPR, Mantic, etc. this entire time but basically refused to do so because of the dumbshits cheering on their stupidity. And there's been some OPR events over the course of the past year as well, again showing people actually playing the game and that a community of actual players exists.

Being pre-assembled does cater to the noob market, but there are people who just hate assembling minis, so if they can eliminate that barrier for some people, why not. Also makes the product more kid friendly. Plus most of the poses look fairly open, so they shouldn't be too much of an issue to paint for experienced people.

 

[Kofi Drinka]

Pretty much, im not expecting it to kill or dent Warhammer at all within its lifetime as a product, but the comparison to TC in regards to it being an indie tabletop IP trying to break into the scene. Its more or less having the same evolution, a mini agnostic game with self-made 3d printable options breaking into the store scene in different manners, TC is seemingly doing the wrong moves throughout while OPR has been getting some successes in spite of a much more modest warchest and hype. The comparison is fascinating, OPR itself made some of the same mistakes as TC (trusting onlygames), but it swiftly corrected them and seems to be on the right path, while TC is resting on its laurels and comfy 5 million while constantly alienating its playarbase (political retardation, shitty and now discontinued STLs, preorder woes, onlygames being retarded, lack of options in plastic. etc etc)

OPR has some major problems that hinder it's ability to grow.

The community is very very casual and doesn't take well to changes. They want the most basic wargame they can get and any attempt to refine or improve the rules leads to a backlash and the furry faggot reversing course. This leads to a complete stagnation in the game and any attempt to be competitive or even hold serious events will be met with backlash and maybe even community revolt. Even holding tournaments at major events gets the idiots saber rattling.

The lack of complexity makes the game boring after a few games. As an introduction to wargaming it's solid but it has nothing to keep people invested. I knew an OPR playground and at first they were excited to get away from modern warhammer but they eventually went to other games or oldhammer because OPR lacks depth. As soon as there is an edition change or a big rules update (which doesn't really change anything, but the perception matters) people say "We haven't played OPR for a few versions now. We wouldn't know where to start" and never touch it again.

Any attempt to make the lore and setting work has failed due to furry fetishism and a lack of originality. It feels fake as can be and everyone sees it as a fan ruleset for warhammer. OPR can't break out of this, every attempt fails. So now we have knock off Halo fighting a dude's fursona kroot. And a lack of lore, sandbox or fixed turns off a lot of players. They never get the "my faction" autism that warhammer relies on. There's a reason why people buy multiple space marine armies and it's something OPR fails to connect with.

I would complain about more gritty issues like the turn structure makes the game scale poorly. But that's not relevant to a starter set. People playing large armies and turning the board into a token mess with no time to sit back appeals to some gamers, but the majority aren't looking for that above a warband sized game. As an actual wargame OPR scales very poorly due to a lack of faction identity, depth of the rules and the turn structure. So it's a self limiting game which spreads it's self too thin to ever be a real contender in the tabletop market.

OPR as an introduction wargame is great. Or as a party game where you use OPR's rules and then put a skin on top of it. Like making OPR animal farm to take to a convention to raise money for your local animal shelter. That's where the game excels, a pick up and play party game. But as a serious contender for market share it's fucked. Their fanbase will reject any attempt to make it more meaty and a lack of meat kills interest within a year.

 

[Ghostse]

The community is very very casual and doesn't take well to changes. They want the most basic wargame they can get and any attempt to refine or improve the rules leads to a backlash and the furry faggot reversing course. This leads to a complete stagnation in the game and any attempt to be competitive or even hold serious events will be met with backlash and maybe even community revolt. Even holding tournaments at major events gets the idiots saber rattling.

The lack of complexity makes the game boring after a few games. As an introduction to wargaming it's solid but it has nothing to keep people invested. I knew an OPR playground and at first they were excited to get away from modern warhammer but they eventually went to other games or oldhammer because OPR lacks depth. As soon as there is an edition change or a big rules update (which doesn't really change anything, but the perception matters) people say "We haven't played OPR for a few versions now. We wouldn't know where to start" and never touch it again.

Any attempt to make the lore and setting work has failed due to furry fetishism and a lack of originality. It feels fake as can be and everyone sees it as a fan ruleset for warhammer. OPR can't break out of this, every attempt fails. So now we have knock off Halo fighting a dude's fursona kroot. And a lack of lore, sandbox or fixed turns off a lot of players. They never get the "my faction" autism that warhammer relies on. There's a reason why people buy multiple space marine armies and it's something OPR fails to connect with.

I would complain about more gritty issues like the turn structure makes the game scale poorly. But that's not relevant to a starter set. People playing large armies and turning the board into a token mess with no time to sit back appeals to some gamers, but the majority aren't looking for that above a warband sized game. As an actual wargame OPR scales very poorly due to a lack of faction identity, depth of the rules and the turn structure. So it's a self limiting game which spreads it's self too thin to ever be a real contender in the tabletop market.

OPR as an introduction wargame is great. Or as a party game where you use OPR's rules and then put a skin on top of it. Like making OPR animal farm to take to a convention to raise money for your local animal shelter. That's where the game excels, a pick up and play party game. But as a serious contender for market share it's fucked. Their fanbase will reject any attempt to make it more meaty and a lack of meat kills interest within a year.

This is a lot of words that could have been boiled down to "Because we must not suffer the furry to live"

 

[Kofi Drinka]

This is a lot of words that could have been boiled down to "Because we must not suffer the furry to live"

The community is worse than the furry. It's a community built out of childish spite and they can't even help people because of it.

I saw a post by someone asking if there's a more complex version of OPR. They had tried to introduce their friends to it but they found the system to be too basic. In typical Redditor form (wasn't on reddit) one person suggested trying the advance rules (which you pay for) while the rest made smarmy comments about 10th ed 40k. Telling him to go back to 40k with it's mess of cards and stratagems and shit. They're the worst type of redditor snark for the most casual game possible. And when any one dares suggest it could be improved they will circle the wagons and double down on being as casual and bland as possible.

 

[SITHRAK!]

Since I'm thinking of Mordheim, some IRL peeps I know have talked this game up. Anyone got experience with it? Good amount of nice models if nothing else.

Mordheim fanatic with 10 warbands and thousands of hours of playtime checking in. My favorite wargame of all time, and I’ve played just about everything since the 80’s.

Its reasonably well liked, but not played a lot of because how involved play is.
Its not like Kill Team or a normal skirmish game, its played in a campaign so you need a DM. Its cooperative/competive where the players are working against the scenario and may decide to collaborate or compete (read: Backstab for gain). There is loot/wargear and it matters a lot so expect lots of tense negotiations and bartering over the spoils.

I should say, you cna just play it like overly involved and complex Warhams but that seems silly.

It’s clear you’ve never played it, as per your post, which is why so much of it is not quite right.

The actual gameplay is extremely simple, certainly much simpler than 10th Ed 40K, but with a great deal of tactical depth. There’s no need for a GM. I’ve played Confrontation and its offspring Necromunda; Kill Team, since the first rules were published in White dwarf; Warmachine, Warcry, Warzone and more. None are anywhere near as engaging as Mordheim.

You can absolutely play it as ‘one off’ games but the post-game sequence in campaigns is where it shines.

As a campaign progresses your warbands will gain and lose people and equipment that will require you to adapt your playstyle. Each warband has strengths and weaknesses that you will need to leverage to increase the chances of winning. Acquiring skills will unlock things like access to weapons your people can’t natively use, like giving Hochland Long Rifles to Skaven (my longest running campaign had two of these in my Skaven warband).

You will learn how to screen important models with trash mobs, establish fields of fire to control chunks of the battlefield, and manipulate player psychology to encourage people to voluntarily rout. You’ll learn orders of charging and attacking to improve your chances of taking down enemy models.

Mordheim is not just a great game whose combat rules you can learn inside out within 2-3 games, it’s also cheap as fuck to get into. There’s a good reason people still play it and support it well over a decade after it was dropped by GW.

I’m actually starting a new campaign Sunday and introducing two new players to the game. Can’t wait.

 

[MazonLabs Recruitment Rep]

Mordheim is not just a great game whose combat rules you can learn inside out within 2-3 games, it’s also cheap as fuck to get into.

I was with you up until here.

Mordheim is indeed a great game (shame I can't get people at the game store I frequent to try it, it's all Battletech, 40k, and Crisis Protocol for some reason. People at that store really like their Marvel.). I still proudly keep my copy of the original rulebook and have, I think, all the old Town Crier's.

And yea, getting a warband together isn't too bad. Where it gets dicey is buying terrain.

So yes, it's a wonderful game, but it needs players and a good number of them to shine.

Telling him to go back to 40k with it's mess of cards and stratagems and shit. They're the worst type of redditor snark for the most casual game possible. And when any one dares suggest it could be improved they will circle the wagons and double down on being as casual and bland as possible.

All this makes me fantasize about GW doing what Blizz did with World of Warcraft and do a little bit of support and re-release for an alternative retro line of Rogue Trader/2nd edition rules. People would buy it.

Yea, I know, never happen, quit listening to the member-berries.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

I was with you up until here.

Mordheim is indeed a great game (shame I can't get people at the game store I frequent to try it, it's all Battletech, 40k, and Crisis Protocol for some reason. People at that store really like their Marvel.). I still proudly keep my copy of the original rulebook and have, I think, all the old Town Crier's.

And yea, getting a warband together isn't too bad. Where it gets dicey is buying terrain.

So yes, it's a wonderful game, but it needs players and a good number of them to shine.


All this makes me fantasize about GW doing what Blizz did with World of Warcraft and do a little bit of support and re-release for an alternative retro line of Rogue Trader/2nd edition rules. People would buy it.

Yea, I know, never happen, quit listening to the member-berries.

Monkey's paw curls and they make a re-release of mordheim in only name that's only compatible with the artsy fartsy warcry warband bits like 30k

 

[SITHRAK!]

Where it gets dicey is buying terrain.

You can get a Bambulabs FDM printer for a couple of hundred bucks and make heaps of terrain super easy. A ‘terrain day’ with friends and some cardstock, popsicle sticks and glue is fun, cheap and productive. Doesn’t have to be expensive at all.

what's a mini's player left to do?

Bolt Action. Completely unironically.

 

[MazonLabs Recruitment Rep]

Bolt Action. Completely unironically.

Again, tempting, but I'd have to figure out how I can do nothing but armies of either Soviet Worker Militia or French Resistence, since my love is and always will be for scrappy irregular types. Only way I'd play WW2.

You can get a Bambulabs FDM printer for a couple of hundred bucks and make heaps of terrain super easy. A ‘terrain day’ with friends and some cardstock, popsicle sticks and glue is fun, cheap and productive. Doesn’t have to be expensive at all.

Battle Systems has proven to be pretty nice for it's urban stuff (100 bucks for a city block? Not bad), and I have seen the fantasy stuff, I just don't want to spend the dosh, take the trouble to put it together myself, and have noone join in. I can do a lot for myself, but only so much.

Again, people have talked Mordheim up so much, including peeps I know, but I can't get anyone to commit, and it does require a bit of commitment to bring it's magic out.

 

[Ghostse]

I just don't want to spend the dosh, take the trouble to put it together myself, and have noone join in. I can do a lot for myself, but only so much.

You can get a Bambulabs FDM printer for a couple of hundred bucks and make heaps of terrain super easy. A ‘terrain day’ with friends and some cardstock, popsicle sticks and glue is fun, cheap and productive. Doesn’t have to be expensive at all.

Because they forgot about Dre Hirst Art Molds.

It’s clear you’ve never played it, as per your post, which is why so much of it is not quite right.

I'm just repeating what someone who played tons of Mordheim told me. Granted they played it when it still a current product and their play was mostly in Europe's GW "official" game, including needing to scrounge or buy whatever wargear you aquired and put it on your models. So maybe the DM needed to run the encounter (environmentals and 3rd party npcs) was only a thing for "official" play/scenarios.
I dunno, it sounded really spergy and not in the good way.

 

[SITHRAK!]

I'm just repeating what someone who played tons of Mordheim told me. Granted they played it when it still a current product and their play was mostly in Europe's GW "official" game, including needing to scrounge or buy whatever wargear you aquired and put it on your models. So maybe the DM needed to run the encounter (environmentals and 3rd party npcs) was only a thing for "official" play/scenarios.
I dunno, it sounded really spergy and not in the good way.

Oh okay. Well as far as equipment goes, warbands have what you might call ‘racial’ equipment, a list of stuff they can buy without having to do rarity checks. You only need to search/scrounge for rare and exotic stuff.
As far as environmentals go, people can take turns if you decide to use such scenarios (ie ‘The Thing in the Woods’). The game does require a high-trust group so you know nobody’s sneakily adding stuff to their warband list when nobody’s looking.
IMHO it’s only really ‘spergy’ in the sense that when people are into it, they’re really into it (like me).

 

[Purple fur Pomeranian]

So this came across on my FB timeline



Sweet dream

 

[SITHRAK!]

So this came across on my FB timeline

The absolute fucking state of those two gigantic units on the right, holy shit.

 

[Purple fur Pomeranian]

The absolute fucking state of those two gigantic units on the right, holy shit.

for real

 

[harbringer883]

So this came across on my FB timeline

View attachment 8868838

Sweet dream
View attachment 8868843

Going from left to right: Gay, gay, gay, gay, troon, stone cold chud, gay, gay, quirk chungus couple, consoomer, maybe normal idk, REAL GIRLIE TM, discord/reddit janny.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

So this came across on my FB timeline

View attachment 8868838

Sweet dream
View attachment 8868843

The irony of a game called Trench Crusade having none of the devs fit in a real world trench.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

So this came across on my FB timeline

View attachment 8868838

Sweet dream
View attachment 8868843

Fella on the right decided to cosplay as a demon of lust and gluttony, what a dedicated bunch