Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

Yeah, I get that - I've not played much 2e or OSR, but it certainly did make you choose a bit differently when your Rogue had poor Strength and good Dexterity, meaning backstabbing Thief was probably not a great choice in earlier editions.
It wasn't so much about having poor Strength or Dexterity scores. One of the major hangups with thieves in BECM and 1E was the way they were written in the handbooks.
All of the thieving skills were static at every level. No customization whatsoever if you were taking the class RAW. Then skills got a 3-5 point increase per level. They started out abysmally low. So hide in shadows and move silently were failing more often than not up until you gained quite a few levels. On the other hand thieves experience tables had them leveling on average almost twice as fast as every other class in the books.
In BECMI they gained d4 HP/Level. In 1E it switched over to d6 HP/Level. So they weren't lacking in HP too much if you had a static party due to the rate that they gained levels. If you had a con bonus it would cover that no problem.
Now what went on at most tables was a house rule the thieves abilities were a blank slate. On creation you just took the points and placed them as desired. The same thing with leveling up.
In 2e that was actually the RAW method. But it had been in practice in the community since thieves had become a thing in the first place 2 editions prior.
 
Hey, guys? Sorry if this is right out of nowhere/late, but I've got a question.

Been wanting to try and make a list of all of the wokeshit tabletop games; either games made to be woke, like Coyote & Crow, or were ruined by wokies taking the games and butchering them, like Deadlands. I know a few games like D&D, Ravenloft, SIGMATA, HSD, the WoD franchise, etc. Any others?
 
Hey, guys? Sorry if this is right out of nowhere/late, but I've got a question.

Been wanting to try and make a list of all of the wokeshit tabletop games; either games made to be woke, like Coyote & Crow, or were ruined by wokies taking the games and butchering them, like Deadlands. I know a few games like D&D, Ravenloft, SIGMATA, HSD, the WoD franchise, etc. Any others?

You're better off with a list of ruined games. The list of woke shit is endless. The list of PBTA clones alone would probably keep you busy for a life time.
 
You're better off with a list of ruined games. The list of woke shit is endless. The list of PBTA clones alone would probably keep you busy for a life time.

Alright; so, what's the list of ruined games? Call me legitimately curious; I really do want to find all of the different games that the wokies have been trying to butcher as of late - might give me some ideas for series to jump into, y'know?
 
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Alright; so, what's the list of ruined games? Call me legitimately curious; I really do want to find all of the different games that the wokies have been trying to butcher as of late - might give me some ideas for series to jump into, y'know?
It's a bit tricky to answer that, because tabletop games by their nature are subject to the whim of their players and GMs. You can turn out the wokest shit in the world, and some GM can retool it into Super Redpill Murderhobo Simulator.

You might check out RPGPundit's forum, as they have a list of RPG companies and games that have 'gone woke'. A good rule of thumb though is that any RPG that is overtly pushing a viewpoint above and beyond the game is probably going to be shit.
 
It's a bit tricky to answer that, because tabletop games by their nature are subject to the whim of their players and GMs. You can turn out the wokest shit in the world, and some GM can retool it into Super Redpill Murderhobo Simulator.

You might check out RPGPundit's forum, as they have a list of RPG companies and games that have 'gone woke'. A good rule of thumb though is that any RPG that is overtly pushing a viewpoint above and beyond the game is probably going to be shit.
I found this from the Pundit’s site (the “List”): https://docs.google.com/document/u/...gnFymWz6M0/mobilebasic#heading=h.s9uvg7c5ig4j
 
I heard Jim recommending a DnD channel at his Christmas stream called CritCrab. But going into it, it's pretty much Reddit tier "this caused me to feel uncomfortable" stories rather than the far more interesting "A guy derailed an entire campaign out of spite/stupidity" that Spoony did (for example, CritCrab did a 2 part series promising a DM going insane over his players, only for it being a run of the mill turboautist who ended up going into an argument with his wife). Are there any channels that do talk about actually interesting stories?
 
I heard Jim recommending a DnD channel at his Christmas stream called CritCrab. But going into it, it's pretty much Reddit tier "this caused me to feel uncomfortable" stories rather than the far more interesting "A guy derailed an entire campaign out of spite/stupidity" that Spoony did (for example, CritCrab did a 2 part series promising a DM going insane over his players, only for it being a run of the mill turboautist who ended up going into an argument with his wife). Are there any channels that do talk about actually interesting stories?
Seth Skorkowsky has a few stories that were interesting so that's my only recommendation. Most DnD story channels are just the same basic bitch making stupid 'funny' voices that either recycles reddit shit from /r/rpghorrorstories or from other channels before them. It's an inbred mess. There was neckbeardia but I wouldn't recommend him either, since he retells stories from 4chan and all that.
 
I heard Jim recommending a DnD channel at his Christmas stream called CritCrab. But going into it, it's pretty much Reddit tier "this caused me to feel uncomfortable" stories rather than the far more interesting "A guy derailed an entire campaign out of spite/stupidity" that Spoony did (for example, CritCrab did a 2 part series promising a DM going insane over his players, only for it being a run of the mill turboautist who ended up going into an argument with his wife). Are there any channels that do talk about actually interesting stories?
1d4chan has the classics from /tg/ henderson and other autists, but you have to read those.
 

New Dungeons & Dragons Licensing Agreement Heavily Restricts Original Content​

The new Open Gaming License for Dungeons & Dragons appeared online, revealing heavy restrictions on content creators in the community.

Gizmodo revealed details about the new OGL from Wizards of the Coast (WotC), which in the past allowed players and others to profit from unofficial content made for Dungeons & Dragons. However, Wizards of the Coast's new OGL cancels out the previous one, significantly reduces what content creators can make and forces those who profit from their creations to report it directly to WotC.

What is the DnD OGL Agreement?
Under the original OGL agreement, which Wizard of the Coast published in 2000, allowed tabletop creators over the last two decades to make and profit from modified rules and content. Amateur and professional makers outside of Wizards of the Coast could create new products for the game ranging from printed game content to videos and let's plays. According to the new OGL, WotC states, "the Open Game License was always intended to allow the community to help grow D&D and expand it creatively. It wasn't intended to subsidize major competitors, especially now that PDF is by far the most common form of distribution."

Although the OGL 1.0 agreement saw many updates and tweaks since its publication, WotC revealed it would create a version 1.1 when it announced One D&D last year. Notably, it emphasizes that the new OGl cancels out previous agreements made under the original and requires content makers to sign an agreement on the new one if they wish to publish "on or after January 13, 2023." Because this is a leaked draft that WotC initially intended to publish on Jan. 4, it's unclear if that date still stands.

DnD OGL 1.1 Adds More Restrictions
According to the new OGL, it "only allows for creation of roleplaying games and supplements in printed media and static electronic file formats. It does not allow for anything else, including but not limited to things like videos, virtual tabletops or VTT campaigns, computer games, novels, apps, graphics novels, music, songs, dances, and pantomimes." WotC also notes that creators can still engage with these activities, but only to the extent that the company's Fan Content Policy allows or through a separate agreement between the maker and Wizards.

By WotC's definition, fan content includes "fan art, videos, podcasts, blogs, websites, streaming content, tattoos, altars to your cleric's deity, etc." It's unclear how this might impact popular lets plays like Critical Role or Dimension 20. WotC's new OGl also explicitly prohibits content that contains anything bigoted, racist, homophobic, transphobic or discriminatory.

Those who profit from content for Dungeons & Dragons fall into three revenue tier sets that determine whether the publisher has to pay royalties to WotC. Most creators don't have to worry about that possibility, as WotC estimates that only around 20 unofficial content publishers fall into this category. The Initiate Tier includes anyone with at least one licensed product that earned $50,000 or less, while the Intermediate Tier ranges from above that to $750,000. Those making more fall into the Expert Tier and must pay 20% or 25% in royalties for anything above that $750,000.

Members of the Expert Tier that use Kickstarter pay 20% in royalties above that $750k threshold, while those using other crowdfunding sites must pay 25% in royalties. Publishers who don't make a profit or even lose money on their crowdfunding attempt that exceeds $750K still owe WotC royalties.

Wizards of the Coast recognized that the updates might cause some issues with fans
and expressed a willingness to hear from the community.
 
I fully expect that they will not win any legal case with companies like Paizo and any other bootlegs if they try to push it, and it will just make companies take out the OGL and just go full "compatible with other systems".

Keep killing yourself Wizards; how's Magic's plummeting sales working out for you?
 

New Dungeons & Dragons Licensing Agreement Heavily Restricts Original Content​



I fully expect that they will not win any legal case with companies like Paizo and any other bootlegs if they try to push it, and it will just make companies take out the OGL and just go full "compatible with other systems".

Keep killing yourself Wizards; how's Magic's plummeting sales working out for you?

IANAL, but from what I understand:
You are only fucked if you sign the OGL 1.1. If you keep publishing 3.5/4e/5e content, you are fine. If you are planning to make content for D&Done, they are going to try to force you to bring any legacy content under OGL 1.1.

The rumblings I have heard is Wizards' plan is they will pressure any online market place to refuse non-OGL 1.1 compliant content published after OGL 1.1 goes into effect, whether or not its for D&DOne. They may try to force legacy content to be updated to OGL 1.1.

I have heard but cannot confirm that this license change affects nobody. The "20 companies" in the over $750,000 range all have worked out separate agreements with Wizards. This is about two things: Control of the content/brand, since the OGL can't be revoked since there's no content clause, and trying to squeeze anyone who makes enough money to be worth squeezing.


Personal Speculation: They just want a cut from all the kickstarter & CritRole dosh.

tl;dr: All of the lessons from 4e have officially been unlearned.
 

New Dungeons & Dragons Licensing Agreement Heavily Restricts Original Content​


Remember when the Warcraft 3 refucked edition did something similar to prevent another DOTA scenario? Remember how well Warcraft 3 Recucked did? This is exactly that, only about 10x worse.
 

New Dungeons & Dragons Licensing Agreement Heavily Restricts Original Content​


Remember, the woman who is the CEO of WotC was from Microsoft. Specifically from the XBox and gaming division. How do you make money in video games? By monetizing the player of course! "Turning players into payers." It was only a matter of time before they brought that mindset to table tops. What is also funny is WotC are now paying shill sites to slander OSR games and players.
"These OSR games and players are racist, sexist bigots! Stick to D&D where it is more inclusive and diverse and be sure to pay 10 dollars to buy this spell for your wizard to use you stupid faggot!"
This isn't going to go over well for WotC and I am glad for it. If Mercer and the Critical Role crew decide to pack up and leave (they should as WotC is now a sinking ship) it would be a massive blow to WotC and WotC will lose a lot of revenue. This is Warcraft 3 ReFucked all over again but 10x worse.
 
So a few days ago I saw this on my feed
And that got me wondering what the fuck was going on with WotC and D&D, checked out the guy's twitter for context but came empty handed. Just yesterday I found more context and now this thread provided the rest of it and I gotta agree, they haven't learned shit from 4e, I would say that this might (ironically) created another Pathfinder situation aka their actions end up creating a direct competitor.
Remember when the Warcraft 3 refucked edition did something similar to prevent another DOTA scenario? Remember how well Warcraft 3 Recucked did? This is exactly that, only about 10x worse.
Blizzard came to mind when I read the bit about "we can use the content you make however we like" due to the starcraft 2 map editor, which has a similar clause and it was all because Blizzard were still salty over Dota (reminder that Icefrog approached them to produce an official dota but they said no, he then went on to work with two other companies on different MOBAs)
 
I find it interesting that WOTC is using the term 'unauthorized' rather than 'revoked' which is the legal term for what they seem to be trying to do.

Some earlier statements from WOTC, before they went full-on shekelsmaxxing:

Q: What is meant by the term "Open Gaming"?

A: An Open Game is a game that can be freely copied, modified, and distributed, and a system for ensuring that material, once distributed as an Open Game will remain permanently Open.


Q: Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?

A: Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway.


I think the above posters are right that Wizards is picking a fight with Paizo (and to a lesser extent, Green Ronin and Kobold Press) to force them to bend the knee.

The major issue for the judge is the lack of a 'revocation' clause one way or another. While the original OGL mentions that the license is made in perpetuity, licenses can be perpetual and either revocable or irrevocable. If it goes to court, WOTC is going ask a judge to read into the OGL a revocation clause that it did not add into the OGL, and based on its earlier statements, one that it did not even believe applied to what they were trying to do when the OGL was granted.
 
I would say that this might (ironically) created another Pathfinder situation aka their actions end up creating a direct competitor.

Very doubtful. D&Done isn't shaping up to be a radical change to the ruleset like 4e was vs 3.5e. PF was a perfect storm, lightning in a bottle I don't think its likely they'll get to recapture.

If we forget that Paizo also blew their load on (cucked, gay) PF2e which came out 7 years too late to woo the 4e crowd.
If it took them 7 years to pivot to a 4e clone, I find it doubtful they'll be able to move with any sufficient speed to capture the 5e audience.

But 4e was a huge shift, and made 10x worse all the problems the 2e grognards had been bitching about with 3.5. PF came out as a "hardcore" (read: complex with tons of ways to break it) 3.5 with lots of needed fixes baked-in and seemed like a solid middle ground. Paizo had also made a name for themselves being a 3.5 module house.
There is no sizeable percentage of 4e grognards to recruit from for PF3e. They just recently pivoted to focus on 5e modules. PF3e isn't going to be the phenom that PF1e was. They only way it gets traction is if WotC goes against what they said and D&Done is a huge departure from 5e, enough a 5.75e can recruit an audience from the zoomer grogs who don't want to learn a new game.
But the real issue is...
As broken, as glaringly flawed, 3.5e is the system has character. Characters are durable but not unbreakable, and it has plug ins for almost anything you want. There is a reason PF was able to get and keep a following.
5e OTOH is a lot more balanced, but completely soulless. No one has fun with a game BECAUSE its 5e, it is more that games are fun despite it being 5e.


The interesting bit might be that Paizo has (or at least had) their own content distribution marketplace. They might be become an OGL 1.0 safe haven; everything I've seen has said DTRPG/GMs Guild will be bending the knee on OGL 1.1 as soon as asked, but that might not reflect reality.
 
You know the news are legit when Redditors are sharing a Gizmodo piece as proof. Youtubers are farming those clicks like there is no tomorrow.

6e will of course be a gay failure. Nobody who has a clue about making good D&D is with WotC anymore, and they were replaced with corporate cancer diversity hires and conveniently cheap interns. The last competent one was Mike Mearls, who got promoted sideways into a different department as the cancel mob was closing in on him. Since it is clown world, don't count on Paizo making a good alternative either. All the talented people are also long gone there, and what they have left are also blue haired office ladies whose main objective was to form a queer friendly union.

You can't understand these places unless you understand corporate churn. There is no long term knowledge, since there are no long term people with in depth understanding and a strong vision. They can't make a new Pathfinder, and they can't even remake a new 5e. Everyone who could do that is long gone.
 
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