Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[俺たちファームズでノッテる]

I'm waiting to see this ORC license , to see if Paizo adds a morality clause to it.

Paizo wouldn't add a moral clause to a license that's intended to not be owned by them (as stated in their blog post here I recommend you check it out). They plan to give the ORC license to an entity (such as the Linux Foundation) that's shown a history of being a proponent of Open Source principals. With this in mind, why would there be a Moral clause? If they do everything they say they're going to do of course, which we haven't seen yet but assuming they do it's illogical to put one in there. The other thing too is that this license is being worked on by most of the major 3rd party companies that make TTRPG content making Paizo one of the contributors but not the sole contributor. Paizo wants to capitalize on WotC's massive fuck up. So I can understand that this is being done out of financial gain (I may not be a communist fag but I get that companies are not your friend.) However, I think one thing that will quickly throw away the goodwill they are receiving is adding a moral clause.
It's entirely possible that they could add the clause, but I think with everything in mind especially the fact that the license is intended to be open source. A moral clause would simply be Illogical, and unenforceable.


Imagine Linus Torvald putting a Moral clause into the Linux kernel......
TLDR; just read this honestly as Paizo is better prepared than my dead ass.

 

[Ghostse]

I've recently gotten the Core rulebook for Pathfinder 2e after this OGL bullshit. Besides my bias against Wotc and One DnD. I am in love with what 2e has to offer I am converting my group to use it as we speak!

Pathfinder 2 is okay if you're doing a melee class. If you're wanting to play a caster it sucks hard. I don't mean "waaah waaah I can't cast three maximized fireballs per round waaah" sucks, but the way they've set up NPC saves, a caster is liable to have anything they cast at a similar-level monster completely bounce. And since many of their encounters are set up in a way where the "boss" is a couple levels higher than the party, good fucking luck getting anything to stick on it unless it nat 1s the saving throw. Making casters less faceroll easy mode than they had been in 3.5 is an admirable goal, but setting things up so they are just wasting turns and spell slots to achieve absolutely nothing is the wrong way to go about it.

Pathfinder 2 is garbage with some solid concepts; bringing back racial feats and multiple ancestries is great.
But mainly you know its shit because it includeds gnomes.
Also goblins as a PC race is only going to attract garbage players.

My expectation is that Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds, the two currently selling 5e products, will continue to do so. But WotC will decline to continue their agreement for the next edition, leaving them high and dry in an attempt to force the market onto Beyond.

FG & Roll20 almost certainly have separate deals worked out with WotC which is why they haven't come out with statements about the OGL.

FG I know you need have bought the books through DTRPG before they show up in your account (and I think you need to pay fee to activate the hook; I think) and I believe its the same for Roll20. If they have content that goes beyond the SRD, they've got a deal with WotC or would already be getting fucked.

i'm waiting to see this ORC license , to see just how woke they gow when they add the morality clause to it

fix'd

They won't add a morality clause, but there will "code of conduct" that will forbid sucking tranny girldick and worshipping niggers. In CURRENT YEAR + 6, its not a question of IF they'll add in something to outlaw anyone to right of Mao, its a question of how bad it'll be.

Imagine Linus Torvald putting a Moral clause into the Linux kernel......
TLDR; just read this honestly as Paizo is better prepared than my dead ass.

I guess you haven't been keeping up with recent events, cause I have some super bad news for you, fren. Trannies have cucked Linus out of his own project.

Linux adds a code of conduct for programmers

In the aftermath of Linus Torvalds apologizing for how he's been running the Linux kernel community, Linux has adopted a new code of conduct. But some now claim this means Linux is being taken over by social justice warriors.

www.zdnet.com

If you follow Linux development closely, you know Linux kernel discussions can be very heated. Recently, Linus Torvalds has admitted the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML) and other Linux development spaces are hostile to many. Torvalds announced he'd change his behavior and apologized to the "people that my personal behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development." It was never just Torvalds. So, the Linux community announced it's adopting, for the first time, a "Code of Conduct."

Linux developers had a code before, but the earlier "Code of Conflict," failed to make the kernel community a more civil group. As Greg Kroah-Hartman, a leading Linux kernel developer wrote, the "Code of Conflict is not achieving its implicit goal of fostering civility and the spirit of 'be excellent to each other.' Explicit guidelines have demonstrated success in other projects and other areas of the kernel."

This new code is straightforward. It opens:

"In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation."
Moving ahead, the Linux code maintainers will be be charged with encouraging welcoming behavior and eliminating sexualized language, trolling, harassment, and other unprofessional behavior. You would think this new code wouldn't cause too much conflict. You would be wrong.

This new code is based on the Contributor Covenant. This open-source code of conduct is already being used by such projects as Eclipse, Kubernetes, and Rails. It was created by Coraline Ada Ehmke, a software developer and open-source advocate tranny.

The use of her Contributor Covenant has caused a bad-tempered outbreak on Twitter and Reddit. There are claims the Linux community is becoming politicized and is being taken over by so-called Social Justice Warriors (SJW). Some examples concerning the new Code of Conduct include: "In practice [will be] abused tools to hunt people SJWs don't like. And they don't like a lot of people." And, "Yes as long as are authoritarian left wing minded, and/or censor your self you can participate."

For all the ranting about SJWs on Twitter and Reddit, things are quite calm on the LKML Itself. It's very telling that the people actually working on Linux are not freaking out about the new code of conduct.

As for what happens next? Sage Sharp, a developer who left the Linux community because of its toxic environment, tweeted it best: "The real test here is whether the community that built Linus up and protected his right to be verbally abusive will change. Linus not only needs to change himself, but the Linux kernel community needs to change as well."

We'll see what happens.

 

[Hijo de Dang Woodchucks!]

Update: A guy named Kyle Brink made a statement 8 hours ago as of the time of writing this post

A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL)

These past days and weeks have been incredibly tough for everyone. As players, fans, and stewards of the game, we can't–and we won't–let thi...

www.dndbeyond.com

A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL) - Posts - D&…

archived 18 Jan 2023 17:45:44 UTC

archive.ph

>WotC is Sorry
Literally just this

 

[anti SJW]

You, uh, wouldn't happen to know which one, would you? All of my bootleg copies aren't OCRed, and I'd like to see it and laugh.

From the Raiders of the Lost Ark Adventure Pack. (IJ2) One of the cut outs you could use for minis.

 

[Loose Goose]

To be fair, the TM belonged to Lucasfilms, not TSR, and apparently covered this specific movie character, not the broader concept of nazis. They were greedy, sue-happy faggots, but this time at least, the faggotry was not theirs.

 

[Airbrushed Van Art]

LOL people think switching over to Pathfinder is “sticking it to the man”.

There are literally thousands of RPGs out there Jesus Christ broaden your horizons and don’t just follow Twitter zombies.

 

[ShitLurker]

LOL people think switching over to Pathfinder is “sticking it to the man”.

There are literally thousands of RPGs out there Jesus Christ broaden your horizons and don’t just follow Twitter zombies.

Pretty much, there is much more to TRPG than D&D and it's derivatives which is a very combat oriented system anyway that strugles in so many other campaign setups.

 

[anti SJW]

 

[WhitePanther1776]

I hear 2e is solid as a system, I guess if their modules suck there's nothing stopping you from picking them apart and using the encounters while displaying the setting the way you want. Not sure how well 1e products translate but I remember liking Rise of the Runelords a lot. I'm a bit surprised they haven't reprinted a lot of the older stuff now that I think of it. There's always homebrew of course.

2e is ok, it’s a mix a 5e (which I find boring) and 1e. Rise of the Runelords did get a hard cover reprint but think it’s the only paizo AP to do so. I highly recommend 1e since it’s a closed system, just torrent the book and your done. They can’t insert anymore trannys or niggers in wheelchairs like they are going to do with 2e.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

One very solid point in Pathfinder's favor: all the rules are online and accessible via PFSRD or Archives of Nethys.

And since the APs are trivially easy to DL, all you need are dice and some friends.

 

[Ghostse]

PF1e has the 3.5e munchkin problems but on steroids. PF1e is all about hooking up feats, stats, to speak nothing of caster supremacy - casters have some chinks in their armor, but they can easily negate them. That's before we get into the 8 million action types, as bad (or worse?) grabble flow charts. Ever since 5e as come out, I have never known anyone suggesting PF(1e) as a system who wasn't a massive, massive munchkin who wasn't more interested in breaking the game than playing.

The upside, as others mentioned, is unlike 3.5/5 where its just the SRD, PF1e's complete rules are available for free. No guess work, no working backwards needed for character creation/progression.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Probably completely off-topic but...

Every time I tried to tabletop game, a problem I had was players who treated it like video game rules applied.

For example in a fight, I was the only person to think of something like trying to climb a tree so I could throw rocks or shoot without having to worry about counter-attacks.... and other players were like "Wait, you can DO that?" (the other players were just saying "attack" or "I cast this spell at that target" over and over).

Is this widespread or do I just keep running into idiots?

I know I'm late, but imo it depends on if the rules are built around that.

I know most here disagree, but I see RPGs are skirmish games with a story. Games like 5e and even 3.5 are very crunchy and put clear limits on what you can do. Whereas other games are more open to that kind of nonsense. It's why 5e's spell descriptions are a novel but old school games are more vague.

In my experience, most are willing to play ball and keep ideas to reasonable things like jumping onto a creatures back or climbing a tree, with the overly clever strategies being limited to reddit.


As for the "attack" or "I cast a spell" players. It sounds good to have creative descriptions and original ideas. But 99 times out of 100 you just want to get on with the game. It also makes the cool stuff like "I leap off the bar and drop kick him" be cool and cinematic. If you want more interaction of that type, then put things people can interact with in the environment. Have undead attack a church with obvious fonts of holywater. Have a pool of lava within pushing distance. Have monsters that can only be killed by impaling.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

PF1e has the 3.5e munchkin problems but on steroids. PF1e is all about hooking up feats, stats, to speak nothing of caster supremacy - casters have some chinks in their armor, but they can easily negate them. That's before we get into the 8 million action types, as bad (or worse?) grabble flow charts. Ever since 5e as come out, I have never known anyone suggesting PF(1e) as a system who wasn't a massive, massive munchkin who wasn't more interested in breaking the game than playing.

The upside, as others mentioned, is unlike 3.5/5 where its just the SRD, PF1e's complete rules are available for free. No guess work, no working backwards needed for character creation/progression.

With PF1E's roots firmly in 3.5E, it's not really a surprise the game has munchkin issues.

Much like other games, the only way to handle this is to limit the book options people can pull from. In one past game, the GM allowed me to play a psychic (Occult Adventures) but disallowed the occult skill unlocks. Fair enough.

 

[Red flaming panda]

I find it kind of sad that these people who are fighting against wotc don't actually want to abandon ship
They rather stick to what they know instead of playing something different because they're too emotionally attached to this product
Like there are so many systems out there these people can play with the friends they've meet, but no
These fuckers are completely loyal to this brand even when Wotc fucks them over, they even argue that dnd isn't a brand
It's almost cult like. I guess that's what happens when your entire audience is filled with nothing but spineless faggots who coomsume nothing but Marvel and Star Wars

 

[Ghostse]

I find it kind of sad that these people who are fighting against wotc don't actually want to abandon ship
They rather stick to what they know instead of playing something different because they're too emotionally attracted to this product
Like there are so many systems out there these people can play with the friends they've meet, but no
These fuckers are completely loyal to this brand even when Wotc fucks them over, they even argue that dnd isn't a brand
It's almost cult like. I guess that's what happens when your entire audience is filled with nothing but spineless faggots who coomsume nothing but Marvel and Star Wars

Honestly thanks to OGL/SRD/etc if you like your edition, you can play it and never give Wizards a single dime. Stick to 3rd party content, only buy 2nd hand, etc.
I run Old School Essentials, which is 1e D&D of the worlds most popular roleplaying game, but not licensed just a reworking of the rules. My purchase of their books has given Wizards exactly zero dollars.

 

[Mr. Manchester]

PF1e has the 3.5e munchkin problems but on steroids. PF1e is all about hooking up feats, stats, to speak nothing of caster supremacy - casters have some chinks in their armor, but they can easily negate them. That's before we get into the 8 million action types, as bad (or worse?) grabble flow charts. Ever since 5e as come out, I have never known anyone suggesting PF(1e) as a system who wasn't a massive, massive munchkin who wasn't more interested in breaking the game than playing.

The upside, as others mentioned, is unlike 3.5/5 where its just the SRD, PF1e's complete rules are available for free. No guess work, no working backwards needed for character creation/progression.

I'll admit that maybe I could sort of be described as something you would compare to an insufferable munchkin, but dicking with the rules is one of the things I love about 3.5/PF1. Pouring over a big list of spells after hitting a new odd level of wizard to see what kind of weird little caveat in a new spell you could find to pull off a weird little trick is well, fun. After you get over how good web is and start to think of ways to worm your way around the circumstantial nature of pyrotechnics, for example. Always made me feel... wizardy.

Think a lot of the caster supremacy problem falls too heavily on the DM though. A big design philosophy behind 3rd ed was that it handed some of the DM's powers over to the players, which was all well and good when a fighter could choose to power attack but not so much when the wizard starts doing whatever he feels like, which can happen pretty quick. Pathfinder made it worse by adding arcane bond (cast any spell out of your spellbook 1/day). Removes the cleverness out of it if you ask me.

My point is if you're going to hop on the absolute mess that is d20pfsrd.com and use those rules and DM you have to keep an eye on who is being the iconic omni-wizard and who wants to kick the shit out of things with a greatsword. You're going to have to play smart and go after the wizard a lot more, actively fuck with them while balancing that with the fighter being able to be challenged in his own right. I've always wanted to make it so that in a loose sense, everything inherently knows things with magic are dangerous and get a little smarter in how they fight them, even if its a group of giant ticks or something. If they start doing big magic like teleporting or abusing wall of stone to make flintstone houses for their orcs, than have the astral plane start coming up or have them anger earth elementals. Don't apologize for it either, 3rd edition wizards are prone to complaining.

It's not like I can't play a fucking diviner in 5th anyway, so there.

 

[Ghostse]

My point is if you're going to hop on the absolute mess that is d20pfsrd.com and use those rules and DM you have to keep an eye on who is being the iconic omni-wizard and who wants to kick the shit out of things with a greatsword. You're going to have to play smart and go after the wizard a lot more, actively fuck with them while balancing that with the fighter being able to be challenged in his own right. I've always wanted to make it so that in a loose sense, everything inherently knows things with magic are dangerous and get a little smarter in how they fight them, even if its a group of giant ticks or something. If they start doing big magic like teleporting or abusing wall of stone to make flintstone houses for their orcs, than have the astral plane start coming up or have them anger earth elementals. Don't apologize for it either, 3rd edition wizards are prone to complaining.

There's nothing wrong with clever spell use, its generally when they start trying to chain feats and carry a national treasury's worth of magic items to try to get effects that were clearly beyond those that were intended that things break down. Pathfinder is horrid at the feat chains & items and no-rails.

That's half the problem you've described though; there are solutions but they aren't really fun. "Everything just murks wizards at the start because that's the only possible strategy" is really boring, and turns the shitkickers into just a protection detail.

I haven't done PF/3.5 in a dog's age, but when I did I limited casters to core spells/feats only.
Wizards also didn't learn spells on level up. They had to find spells (or research like they were creating a magic item; no takers). Clerics had to pray to their gods for new spells. I also had another campaign where magic users had to burn a higher spot for a spell or risk getting the ire of the crazy magic-hating goddess if it was over level 2, or if you didn't end a non-instant spell as soon as posisble.

You could solve it by moving to a more DCC-like casting system with a higher degree of random effects.

 

[Agent of Z.O.G.]

You could solve it by moving to a more DCC-like casting system with a higher degree of random effects.

Jesus Christ how horrifying.

 

[Midwit]

Really the issue is that D&D magic is all about having a somewhat limited number of discrete and often ridiculously powerful spells rather than having a less powerful but more readily available toolset of mystical bullshit, the latter being closer to the wizards of folklore and classical fantasy but Gygax really liked Vance's ideas so we're stuck with it now because WotC doesn't have the balls to depart from the game's sacred cows.

You could solve it by moving to a more DCC-like casting system with a higher degree of random effects.

At that point just insert WFRP casting and have a chance to explode or summon a daemon every time they cast a spell, it's not like you won't have the dice for it.

 

[Ghostse]

Update: A guy named Kyle Brink made a statement 8 hours ago as of the time of writing this post

A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL)

These past days and weeks have been incredibly tough for everyone. As players, fans, and stewards of the game, we can't–and we won't–let thi...

www.dndbeyond.com

A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL) - Posts - D&…

archived 18 Jan 2023 17:45:44 UTC

archive.ph

5 hours later Dndshorts made a response video

Forgot to post of this, but I love how all the shit they say won't be happening is shit no one cared or was concerned about (except for the royalties, but I'm expecting to see some fucking there).
"We aren't going to fuck with Critical Role, please stop trying to lynch us!"

But the part I love is this:
"Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."

So you're graciously not going to try to so the thing that you can't do anyway because it would get you curb stomped in court? Fuck you just go ahead an list off all other illegal shit you won't be doing and act like you're some sort of visionary saint.

"Not Murdering You - Wizards Employees will not drive to your house, set it on fire, and then shoot you when you try escape and then piss on your corpse. The OGL 2.0 will have strong language to prevent this from happening as long as you adhere to its terms."