Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Tactical Wizard]

I'm gonna go ahead and shill for Mechwarrior 3rd Ed./Classic Battletech RPG and also the silhouette core system put out by Dream Pod 9 for use with heavy gear. They're both proven, they both work and they're both considered to be classics for a reason. Don't give that fucking commie cocksucker that made Lancer your money, your attention or your exposure.

 

[Drunken Fox]

What reputation does it have?

That it's bland (the Generic in the title) and overly complex? From what I understand from the thread, that's mainly a side effect of people trying to use every expansion and ruleset, instead of keeping it to the base game and a few select parts of the expansions that fit your setting?

Mostly, that is overly complex. I haven't heard bland before, but that doesn't surprise me either. Usually it is the complexity that I hear most complaints about. The system has a lot of number crunch during character creation that involves (gasp!) multiplication and division. In particular though there are two supplements that are pointed at to prove this: The Deadly Spring and 3E Vehicles. I haven't actually read 3E Vehicles and they haven't published anything similar for 4E. From my understanding though was that it was a complete way of designing almost any object you could imagine and as you can imagine, rather complicated. They do have a spaceship designer for 4E, but it is very modular and not very complicated. The Deadly Spring, I have read and that one is kind of a mess. It is just a small supplemental article found in Pyramid (GURPS's digital magazine they used to publish) that gave rules for fully designing custom bows and crossbows. You can use it to customize length, material, curvature, etc. and after you are all done it might come back and just tell you your bow does not work. The math in it does look like it would fit more in a college textbook and includes square roots and sin. As I said, it's kind of a mess, but both of these are not something anyone would have to touch.

On the other hand, I do kind of get it. I would not make a GURPS character outside of a digital tool, especially if I am making custom powers or anything. There's just too much to keep track of. But since there are digital tools, it really isn't that bad and if you aren't building custom advantages and abilities you can get through most of character creation with just addition and subtraction with some very basic multiplication and division for Basic Speed ((DX+HT)/4) and Basic Lift ((ST*ST)/5).

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

With Hasbro's history of being bad liars. They deny selling Dungeons and Dragons but still use doublespeak when it comes to Tencent. It’s almost confirmed at this point. 65% sure Hasbro will sell D&D to someone.

 

[robobobo]

Given the general downward trend of their money, I expect you're right. It's just a matter of when.

 

[Wallace]

Military games work best when the PCs are an elite unit with lots of autonomy (like a lance of mechs). Start with general orders that give an objective but leave operational details to the players.

For missions, make situations that are complicated. Unlawful orders. Tactically unsound orders. Orders that only make sense if you can see the big picture (which you do not). Ethical conflicts. Personal conflicts of interest. Mounting adversity and situations that keep getting shittier bring tension, debate, tough decisions, compromises and ingenuity.

In addition to episodic missions, have some drama around the base. Idiot COs need to be carefully managed, vindictive locals need to be pacified, and essential supplies may only be available through questionable means, and journalists and lawyers need to be soothed else bad PR undermine the war.

• Locals are storing weapons and supplies for the enemy. If they don't, the enemy will kill them. If you let it slide, the weapons will be used against you.
• A child riding by on a bicycle drops a grenade in the middle of your platoon. Later another child on a bicycle is approaching your platoon.
• A new officer is trying to establish himself as an authority and stubbornly insists on a mission that is sure to fail.
• A translator who is absolutely a smuggler and knows how to get all the tasty treats and coffee your rations don't cover is also kind of sketchy; maybe he's a spy?

Finally, give the PCs lots of time to interact with each other and other people too. There's some interesting conflict/camaraderie between people forced to be together for an idea they don't really believe in. Even when the war gets hot you're still fighting along side you would never choose to be friends with, and watching your real friends die pointlessly. The real victories for soldiers in a war are the efforts that manage to preserve your sanity and give you some sense of justice. The war is just something that happens in the background of that.

"War is 80% waiting and 20% avoiding the consequences of bad decisions you made when you had nothing to do."

 

[Judge Dredd]

I'm gonna go ahead and shill for Mechwarrior 3rd Ed./Classic Battletech RPG and also the silhouette core system put out by Dream Pod 9 for use with heavy gear. They're both proven, they both work and they're both considered to be classics for a reason.

I can't speak for Heavy Gear (I only know the PC game) but I'm sticking far away from Battletech. First and foremost is the setting*. Then there's spreadsheets and mech building that scare people off. The battles sounds too big. I don't want to set up a massive hex grid with terrain, and spend all day on a simple 3v3 combat. I've heard there was a stripped down version that was faster and played more like 40k (alpha strike?), but given how it's widely ignored and dismissed by the fanbase, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

*The setting isn't really bad on it's own, but it's a well worn story line with only one plot anyone knows or cares about. The clan invasion. MW5 got fans mad for not having a mad cat/timber wolf, and even that game references the invasion at the end.

With Hasbro's history of being bad liars. They deny selling Dungeons and Dragons but still use doublespeak when it comes to Tencent. It’s almost confirmed at this point. 65% sure Hasbro will sell D&D to someone.

Didn't watch the video, but this all sounds like corporate sales tactics to me. WotC trying to boost the price by "leaking" the contract and then putting out a statement that they aren't for sale (for that price). Only way it could be more transparent is if they announced a bunch of fan favorites to build positive buzz.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I can't speak for Heavy Gear (I only know the PC game) but I'm sticking far away from Battletech. First and foremost is the setting*. Then there's spreadsheets and mech building that scare people off. The battles sounds too big. I don't want to set up a massive hex grid with terrain, and spend all day on a simple 3v3 combat. I've heard there was a stripped down version that was faster and played more like 40k (alpha strike?), but given how it's widely ignored and dismissed by the fanbase, it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Alpha Strike is quite good for a quick game, and it would work well as the "mecha" side of a TTRPG. BT players dismiss it because it doesn't have the granular autism of the main game. You don't get to plink at the enemy Atlas from across the map, get a through-armor hit on pristine armor, hit an autocannon ammo bin, and instantaneously send the 'Mech's fusion reactor flying half a mile into the air from the ammo detonation. But the game is fast, and you get to do even full battalion-on-battalion (12 vs 12) games in just a couple of hours.

*The setting isn't really bad on it's own, but it's a well worn story line with only one plot anyone knows or cares about. The clan invasion. MW5 got fans mad for not having a mad cat/timber wolf, and even that game references the invasion at the end.

Meanwhile, I've been playing FedCom Civil War for close to 20 years now. You know, the post-Clan invasion storyline that had fuck-all to do with the Clans and the last good thing to happen to the franchise before it got sold off.

Don't let the furries ruin the fun for you. There's a lot more to BT than the Clan Invasion.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Don't let the furries ruin the fun for you. There's a lot more to BT than the Clan Invasion.

Apologies in advance for the autism. You don't deserve it.

I know there's more to BattleTech than the clans, but here's the problem. I don't know any of it, and I'm not importing a bunch of out-of-print paperbacks from the states to get up to date on the fed com civil war, the succession wars, the jihad, the dark age, the word of Blake, and I'm sure many many others. I didn't grow up with MechWarrior 2, 3, and 4. I only came in later. My favourite Battletech games are Living Legends (sooooo good) and MechWarrior 5 (because it works and I can follow what is going on) even though fans hate those*.

To give two simple, single examples. I kept hearing about how awesome Dominic Payne is. My research said he appeared in Mech Warrior 3. I watched a long play of the game and he does nothing. He's just a tag along wing man who doesn't seem to have a personality. "He piloted an Atlus tho!" But even that makes no sense because it gets blown up.

I played MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries, and I didn't know who the factions were and why I should care. People talk as if being house Steiner or house Davion is like choosing a faction in New Vegas, but none of them are explained in the game itself. Me choosing the merc company that offers more money was supposedly a stupid scrub move because The Kell Hounds are THE merc company to join because it's made up of former clanners. What I did was like being given a choice to play any of the Justice League and choosing to play as Aquaman.


I dump this autism on you because not only am I ignorant of the lore, and getting up to speed is nearly impossible, especially as a brit coming in late. I know the surface level stuff, like Urban Mechs being a joke, but there's a lot I don't know. And from the material I have seen (like the cartoon) is either clan invasion, or a setting that people say sucks.

I could get around it and set it on some corner of the galaxy where local factions are clashing for one reason or another. But at that point, I could just side step the problems that come with MW as a game and use a unique setting.


*Living Legends doesn't have a mech lab, so it sucks, but to me that's part of the appeal. There's no problems with "pop tarts", "laser boats", and "ghost heat" like MWO players complain about. I also like that LL has tanks and planes, giving you options other than mech v mech and making battles more dynamic and gives you a cheap way to contribute if you fall behind in cash. For MW5 people complain about the economy, even though every mission they go all in on salvage shares instead of insurance and payout. They also complain about the lack of clan mechs or certain parts.

 

[JJLiautaud]

I know there's more to BattleTech than the clans, but here's the problem. I don't know any of it, and I'm not importing a bunch of out-of-print paperbacks from the states to get up to date on the fed com civil war, the succession wars, the jihad, the dark age, the word of Blake, and I'm sure many many others.

Paging @BlackDragoons please pick up the white curtesy phone. Paging BlackDragoons please pick up the white curtesy phone.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

On the topic of TTRPGs. What are some ideas for a mech based setting, and what media should I look into ripping off for adventure ideas?

If you are looking ideas, of course Battletech has an RPG that's four editions in. I've already done a breakdown of that, if not in this thread, then in the Battletech thread. GURPs had rules for Mechs, so that's worth looking into. There is at least one Gundam fan game, and Big Eyes, Small Mouth had Mech rules. Adeptus Evangelion was a popular Neon Genesis Evangelion fan game that's also multiple editions in.

What’s funny. Tencent probably do a better job at handling D&D than Hasbro. Especially with winning over old fans. They at least will bring back elves with Big Boobs. If this happen. Can’t wait until woke faggot start crying china scrubbing black humans from D&D and renaming the Drow the dark elves again.

Hasbro have already released a statement denying this:

Edit: Someone already posted the video. I'd say its still 50/50 they sell it to Tencent.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I dump this autism on you because not only am I ignorant of the lore, and getting up to speed is nearly impossible, especially as a brit coming in late. I know the surface level stuff, like Urban Mechs being a joke, but there's a lot I don't know. And from the material I have seen (like the cartoon) is either clan invasion, or a setting that people say sucks.

I could get around it and set it on some corner of the galaxy where local factions are clashing for one reason or another. But at that point, I could just side step the problems that come with MW as a game and use a unique setting.

That's the problem with every long-running franchise. The solution is to find a buddy who is into the setting and likes explaining shit without getting lost in autistic detail. Because then you can ask directed questions about subjects you're interested in learning about that specific moment. It's much easier to retain information on a subject you want to learn, after all. So, do you want to know what's up with the Federated Commonwealth and why there was a Civil War? Ask your buddy! Want to know why it's always correct to shoot Capellans? Ask your buddy!

And if you haven't found that buddy yet, we're fine answering questions in the Battletech thread. Or you can toss me a DM and I'll answer questions to the best of my ability because I am that friend who's into the setting and likes explaining shit without getting lost in autistic detail.

Either way, this is why maintaining a healthy, non-confrontational fanbase is so important for a long-running IP, be it videogames, movies, fiction or tabletop. Intro materials and videos and lore dumps help, but the best way to bring people into a franchise is through word-of-mouth and one-on-one contact. Many companies have fucked this up before, and Catalyst Game Labs is following in their footsteps.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

MW5 got fans mad for not having a mad cat/timber wolf

Some of us just gotta have our MechWarfu.

 

[BlackDragoons]

Paging @BlackDragoons please pick up the white curtesy phone. Paging BlackDragoons please pick up the white curtesy phone.

I have risen.

I know there's more to BattleTech than the clans, but here's the problem. I don't know any of it, and I'm not importing a bunch of out-of-print paperbacks from the states to get up to date on the fed com civil war, the succession wars, the jihad, the dark age, the word of Blake, and I'm sure many many others. I didn't grow up with MechWarrior 2, 3, and 4. I only came in later. My favourite Battletech games are Living Legends (sooooo good) and MechWarrior 5 (because it works and I can follow what is going on) even though fans hate those*.

Sweet got you covered. Here is a link with every single paperback book in PDF form: Rebrand.ly/CranstonSnord and if you want more then that it also contains many Sourcebooks ranging from technical details of the 4th Succession War to technical books about Battlemechs. If you got any other questions my DMs are open or your good to ping me.

 

[robobobo]

Old Battletech isn't rocket science; there were five major factions and a handful of smaller players and they would fight with robots. And their shit was all old and busted because nobody believed in tape backups and the idiots nuked each others' scientists every chance they got. The Clans fucked up two things:

1. They ruined the 'everything is old and busted' vibe by bringing in shitloads of brand new tech that everyone promptly grabbed and studied to scoot back up the tech tree.
2. Their stuff was flat-out superior in the tabletop game so all the annoying people immediately latched onto them.

 

[RSU 1741]

Old Battletech isn't rocket science; there were five major factions and a handful of smaller players and they would fight with robots. And their shit was all old and busted because nobody believed in tape backups and the idiots nuked each others' scientists every chance they got. The Clans fucked up two things.

The setting probably wasn't even meant to survive what, almost four decades? It's an 80ies sci-fi wargame setting, they probably would have cycled it in 4-5 years and that was it. No one writing thinly-veiled WW2/Cold War stereotypes "Feudal Space Nations" thought about the plot developments in 30+ years.

The lore is mostly stupid as fuck, the books are an insult to mankind (Battletech books are probably the worst genre fiction I've ever read, Warhammer novels in comparison are Dostoevsky). Spergs will discuss at length about fictional histories where most plans and events are pants-on-head retarded or written in the most stupid way possible. Entire major era-defining wars are almost immersion breaking in how stupid they are (FedCom Civil War, Jihad, Dark Age). The entire setting contradicts itself (Warships exists).

You don't need to care. The lore is just there to give you ambience. You're there to chop heads for your Space Japanese Daimyo or commit warcrimes for Clan Dark Pitbull, and on that it works fine. It's just you, your mate and your minis, and it's fun.

 

[Gingervitis]

https://x.com/hailorcusdorkus/status/1753454904268702114?s=46&t=mkKyoS71bbncG8jCUFBAUQ

 

[Adamska]

View attachment 5688514

https://x.com/hailorcusdorkus/status/1753454904268702114?s=46&t=mkKyoS71bbncG8jCUFBAUQ

If you really want a cartoon dragshow RPG, you should've used Bugs doc.

 

[Judge Dredd]

That's the problem with every long-running franchise. The solution is to find a buddy who is into the setting and likes explaining shit without getting lost in autistic detail.

The solution is for me to not run it. If I run it, any fans might get annoyed at me getting things wrong, and those who aren't fans will have no idea.

The setting probably wasn't even meant to survive what, almost four decades?

You don't need to care. The lore is just there to give you ambience. You're there to chop heads for your Space Japanese Daimyo or commit warcrimes for Clan Dark Pitbull, and on that it works fine. It's just you, your mate and your minis, and it's fun.

That's the vibe I get from it. The setting (just like 40k) was made to justify infinite war, from a 2v2 tabletop skirmish, to massive wargame days at friendly local game shop. The different plots/eras of the game existing mainly as an excuse to introduce new models, and the lost tech aspect allows them to phase out old models and explain why everybody is not all Atlus 24/7. While callbacks to named characters serve as a fun reference for the super fans.

But I think most of the fanboyism comes from the PC and console games. It's what people grew up with, and in the case of Brits, all we got as far as Battletech goes until the 2010s That also explains why I'm told Battletech doesn't have silly things like ultra mega giga super power attacks, or using the most advanced technology available to punch things, only for me to see a 100 ton death fortress charging into battle with an axe and mechs with ultra mega giga super power attacks. But that's okay because the axe has rust on it and the attack has a military sounding name (Arrow 4).

I exaggerate for humour, but I did find some funny looking pilots in MW5 that seem to be wearing a giant egg. Supposedly that is something from the old lore that was left behind for being stupid looking. A good call, but at the end of the day it's still a giant robot shooty game.

Old Battletech isn't rocket science; there were five major factions and a handful of smaller players and they would fight with robots. And their shit was all old and busted because nobody believed in tape backups and the idiots nuked each others' scientists every chance they got.

Which is why, for a TTRPG, I could use a new setting or a different established setting that does the same.

Some of us just gotta have our MechWarfu.

It's strange no one hooked onto later designs like the Uziel. I guess being an Inner Sphere medium instead of a Clan heavy or assault does that.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

A few years back someone came up with an apparently unironic Gor-based RPG.

https://www.amazon.com/Tales-Gor-Roleplaying-James-Desborough/dp/0244005540

For those who don't know, the Gor RPG is written by the infamous James Desborough, who runs his own publishing company, Postmortem Studios, and who's written a number of RPG books besides Gor, most notably the Munchkin’s Guide to Powergaming. James is probably most remembered for his involvement in Gamergate shenanigans, that I was recently brought back into remembrance of via somebody favoriting one of my old posts on the subject, which I will quote here:

This reminds of that time, at the height of Gamergate, The Escapist interviewed a number of people working in the gaming industry to get their opinion on the subject, and James Desborough was one of the people they interviewed. Only to later take down his interview (along with someone else's), claiming that James had been accused of harassing people...only for no such allegations to actually surface and the claims to effectively amount to nothing. James didn't even find out they had removed his interview till after they had removed it, as they didn't contact him regarding the allegations beforehand. Word is, that fat fuck Jim Sterling had something to do with his interview being taken down.

James himself later created a satirical card game based on Gamergate, that he uploaded to RPGnow.com, only for it to be taken down a few hours later. James later explained that not only did the game get "complaint" bombed", other companies (he specifically named Evil Hat and Smart Play Productions) threatened to pull their products down from sale unless his removed from the storefront, which I believe is actually illegal and OneBookShelf themselves later actually confirmed happened in an official statement (though, of course, they claim it wasn't the reason they removed the product from sale). For a page that contains a full rundown of his involvement in Gamergate specifically, you can look here.

 

[ZMOT]

the books are an insult to mankind (Battletech books are probably the worst genre fiction I've ever read, Warhammer novels in comparison are Dostoevsky)

only read a few, but compared to the few warhammer (or even magic the gathering) books I read they were fine. least there was no alien mindrape of female inquisitors or some questionable "freakshit" in there...

Old Battletech isn't rocket science; there were five major factions and a handful of smaller players and they would fight with robots. And their shit was all old and busted because nobody believed in tape backups and the idiots nuked each others' scientists every chance they got. The Clans fucked up two things:

1. They ruined the 'everything is old and busted' vibe by bringing in shitloads of brand new tech that everyone promptly grabbed and studied to scoot back up the tech tree.
2. Their stuff was flat-out superior in the tabletop game so all the annoying people immediately latched onto them.

this. the moment people whine about "mug stagnant/boring lore" they need to gtfo. at best it's supposed to be a minimal background to create /yourdudes/ and headcanon. local conflict with your company at the ass-end of nowhere? that's engaging and interesting. trying to keep track of galaxy-changing events happening every month? fuck off.

battletech now is basically the endstate of what GW-fags starting to enjoy with 40k...

Don't give that fucking commie cocksucker that made Lancer your money, your attention or your exposure.

it's one of those "come for crunch, disregard the lore" systems. doesn't help that compared to RPGs there aren't that many alternatives that hit the right spot and are "ok" to support (large part of the industry is pozzed af, because you're not even allowed to have a dissenting voice).