Terry Pratchett's "The Watch" - A diverse and inclusive steampunk BBC series inspired by the Discworld Novels

[buying gf]

I have no words for this.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Honestly, I don't think Pratchett is particularly good for film. Most of the humor hinges on the footnotes and the oh-so-clever twee Britbong narration as opposed to anything actually being presented in the scene ("the best way not to get noticed is to act like you're trying to get noticed!" Fucking what?)

That said, this looks... impressively awful. It's like these TV companies are in some kind of competition to see who can be least faithful to the source material.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

So what you're telling me is this book series succeeds in actually being progressive with its own diverse cast while also not being obnoxious about it whereas the show runs full tilt into the stupid woke shit.

That's just...incredible. Somehow they took a book series that is already pretty progressive and decide to make it more woke and thus shit on everything in the process. Like holy shit you could have made a great show promoting diversity like the books but oh no, those books aren't woke enough so lets just fuck it up.

While the books have some silly reality denialist nonsense, they don't go full idpol. I mean, it's not like every single character is a racial stereotype like Redwall, but there are differences in outlook.

It is wholly unsurprising that the people involved in this 'adaption' are destroying the solid class aspects of Pratchett's books in favor of this ridiculous race stuff. Even though the aristocrats and bankers of his books were relatively amoral, fantasy stereotypes rather than the real evil they are in the real world! They do this for a reason, not because they hate the books or because they really believe in some 'politically correct' vision, but because they work for the forces of evil.

 

[Overly Serious]

This thread is the first I've heard about the adaptation and I really want to go on a massive rant but so many good people have already said what I would say so well.

But even though it's been said by nearly everyone, that's not Lady Sybil Ramkin. She should be built like a tank with an accent that could cut glass. I wonder if they'll also downplay her massive wealth? I mean to be rich is also to be problematic. I'd guess they'll mitigate it by having other aristocrats be much wealthier than her and make her just sort-of one of them for purposes of her being the rebel insider.

I've never read Discworld, or really anything by Terry Pratchett (yes I'm an uncultured swine), but Jesus Christ these photos are ugly. The set design, the costumes, the fucking actors are all hideous and don't even resemble the characters if the other posters' comments are anything to go by. This show is visually unattractive to someone unfamiliar with the books so it begs the question of who the hell this is even for. Hardcore fans are obviously upset while people who aren't fans are repulsed.

Other adaptations have not exactly had high budgets. More the opposite. But they've had heart and a great deal of love for the source material. (Well, the Soul Music one is a bit pants, but...).

This is Death in The Hogfather.

I mean it's hardly cutting edge CGI, more stage adaptation mask. But it suits the tone of the story perfectly and I actually like it. And they never had other problems with perfect casting (*cough*Susan*cough*)

Going Postal had very little budget. But the cast were really good and the story was loyal to the book if somewhat abridged by necessity. And for what it's worth, this was Angua as she was last adapted to TV:

According to the plot overview his role in this is as the new rookie being instructed in policing by Karangua, which given what we know is going to result in him being the designated clueless white guy who needs to be educated into wokeness by the diverse cast away from his problematic views on minorities

Oh, please small gods, no! Carrot is far from stupid. And there's some question over whether his naivity is actually just an act by later books. Angua in several places wonders if he's deliberately acting innocent. The Carrot who on first arriving in Ankh Morpork accidently stays at a Brothel thinking it's a hotel wises up pretty quickly. Even if he never does quite get his head around metaphors. It's actually Carrot who helps Angua more than anything I would say through being completely accepting and supportive of her difficulties as a werewolf.

The only prejudice bone in Carrot's body was slightly towards Trolls. And even then he realised he was being biased and he was a lawman first, dwarf second.

I know there are some reading this who haven't read the novels so the above could use a little explanation. Carrot is human but was found as a baby and raised by dwarves. Despite being 6'4" he doesn't realise this until his father sits him down and tells him he's adopted. Which his father does because Carrot is starting to develop feelings for Minty Rocksmacker, a female dwarf in the same mine. From memory the dialogue is something like:

"I know son. She had words with her mother and her mother had words with her father and her father - he had words with me. And well... it's not right son. She's only 54".

So they send him to live with his own kind in Ankh Morpork and, having last mixed with human society over two-hundred years ago, his father suggests a career in the city watch might be a good upstanding career for Carrot.

Carrot, having spent most of childhood hauling mine carts and pickaxes, is also described in the books as having the sort of physique that people with knives jump out at from behind rocks and then say "Oh, I'm terribly sorry, I thought you were somebody else". He's not called Carrot because of his ginger hair but because of his shape.

Also, his idealism is a huge part of the watch reforming into an effective police force, rather than just a handful of jaded old men trying to keep their heads down and survive until payday

Yep, Carrot is one of the best of people in Terry Pratchett's novels. Kind without being weak, honest without being petty, simple without being stupid. Even the patrician at the end of Guards! Guards! subtly asks Carrot if he has any political ambitions and if they're going to have a problem and Carrot equally subtly says he'll be happy just working in the watch but, iirc, some extra funding would be nice *hint hint*. One of those little moments that suggests Carrot knows exactly what's going on by that point.

That midget from the Joker would have been my shoo in for Nobby Nobbs.

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure I remember Nobby trooning out in one of the novels when they go to Klatch, to Seargent Colon's great consternation.

EDIT: I know the make-up budget is next to nothing (total respect to the people who worked on it with so little) but Going Postal was a decent adaptation for what it's worth. They had to cut a lot but they got to the heart of the story. And for all those who talk above about how Sir Terry was a progressive person in a good way imagine the heavy-handed way some would deal with the themes of monopolies and financial corruption in Going Postal compared to scenes like this:

 

[Ellesse_warrior]

Should have cast it as Nobby Nobbs, someone so ugly with fucked up genetics nobody knows what species he is and needs a special human card.
There's also the tv series of Soul Music and Wyrd Sisters, although they are animated and not live action.

Are those series good?

 

[Overly Serious]

Are those series good?

Soul Music is, with the greatest respect - terrible. A stilted adaptation of one of Pratchett's weakest novels. Wyrd Sisters I recall being better but still not great. There has never been an adaptation of Pratchett's work that really does it justice but Hogfather and Going Postal are the ones that come closest, low-budget though they are. They at least have talented casts who really go for it. Colour of Magic / Light Fantastic were... okay? But basically nobody has ever given an adaptation anywhere close to a real budget.

 

[Ellesse_warrior]

Soul Music is, with the greatest respect - terrible. A stilted adaptation of one of Pratchett's weakest novels. Wyrd Sisters I recall being better but still not great. There has never been an adaptation of Pratchett's work that really does it justice but Hogfather and Going Postal are the ones that come closest, low-budget though they are. They at least have talented casts who really go for it. Colour of Magic / Light Fantastic were... okay? But basically nobody has ever given an adaptation anywhere close to a real budget.

That's a pity. I always thought that animation would be a better way to adapt the Discworld novels because of all the different creatures and magic

 

[Judge Holden]

Soul Music is, with the greatest respect - terrible. A stilted adaptation of one of Pratchett's weakest novels. Wyrd Sisters I recall being better but still not great. There has never been an adaptation of Pratchett's work that really does it justice but Hogfather and Going Postal are the ones that come closest, low-budget though they are. They at least have talented casts who really go for it. Colour of Magic / Light Fantastic were... okay? But basically nobody has ever given an adaptation anywhere close to a real budget.

Yeah, the animation is bad even for janky cheap 90s fare and they cut out way too much shit, but the voice acting is pretty good in parts......ok mostly because you have the likes of Christopher Lee as Death. Really only worth checking out for the novelty if you already a fan of the books.

 

[Junior Faze]

What an appalling waste of an opportunity this mess is. I try to be open-minded, I really do, but there's no way this can be good.

So much is wrong or broken that it's irredeemable.

These are beloved characters developed over an entire series of books, and it hurts to see them so callously misconstrued. Sir Terry wrote a LOT of strong female characters which provides so much to work with. Just bring them to life; they do't need improving or fixing by a committee of mediocre clowns.

Lady Sybil as Storm? Shudder. And in this era of fixation on women in STEM, why destroy Cheery who single-handedly invented forensic science on Discworld? Her journey of self-discovery and empowerment is the embodiment of all that role-model stuff everyone is always nattering on about. And to have her womanly achievements stolen by a troon -- what could be more current year?

Jason Isaacs would have made a brilliant Sam; he was so very good in Case Histories as an ex-cop detective.

Heresy warning: Oddly, the only change I could see working is Lord Vetinari as a women. His type of intelligence could be interpreted as traditionally feminine. -- extremely intuitive, able to spot hidden talents in Sam and Moist (and that Looneytunes Leonardo da Vinci guy) that even they are unaware of. He uses manipulation to force them to rise to extremely difficult occasions. The actress cast has a great face, smart and mature; this could work. Switching M to a woman didn't really hurt James Bond.

 

[Overly Serious]

Heresy warning: Oddly, the only change I could see working is Lord Vetinari as a women. His type of intelligence could be interpreted as traditionally feminine. -- extremely intuitive, able to spot hidden talents in Sam and Moist (and that Looneytunes Leonardo da Vinci guy) that even they are unaware of. He uses manipulation to force them to rise to extremely difficult occasions. The actress cast has a great face, smart and mature; this could work. Switching M to a woman didn't really hurt James Bond.

M is also a position rather than a person. But yes, whilst the change of Veterinari to a woman is probably done for woke points, it's also the change in this list of changes that is least likely to make any difference. I'm also a minor fan of Anna Chancellor since I first saw her with Martin Clunes in Staggered back in the days of ancient history. She's well-suited to Terry Pratchett adaptations.

I'm still not a fan of changing well-established and much-loved characters for no good reason, though. I'd sooner see her as one of the existing female characters. She's not quite old enough yet to play Granny Weatherwax but otherwise would be good in the role.

 

[buying gf]

This is Death in The Hogfather.

I mean it's hardly cutting edge CGI, more stage adaptation mask. But it suits the tone of the story perfectly and I actually like it.

I think what tied it together was Ian Richardson's voice. The Francis Urquhart reference gets me every time I watch it.

Heresy warning: Oddly, the only change I could see working is Lord Vetinari as a women. His type of intelligence could be interpreted as traditionally feminine. -- extremely intuitive, able to spot hidden talents in Sam and Moist (and that Looneytunes Leonardo da Vinci guy) that even they are unaware of. He uses manipulation to force them to rise to extremely difficult occasions. The actress cast has a great face, smart and mature; this could work. Switching M to a woman didn't really hurt James Bond.

I would prefer he be played by a man, but there is some fun in a woman holding the title of 'Patrician'.

 

[Jub-Jub]

Are those series good?

Haven't seen them in full for a long time, so it's hard to say, although I remember catching some of an episode of soul music a while back and thinking it was very dry. IIRC they are fairly straight adaption of the books so if you liked them it might be worth checking out.

That's a pity. I always thought that animation would be a better way to adapt the Discworld novels because of all the different creatures and magic

It's '97 animation that's pretty jank and idk anything else that the studio ever animated. It's not unwatchable by any stretch and i think it's competent, but don't think your getting something crazy.

 

[Borscht]

This absolute travesty made me want to take a nice long hot shower because I felt dirty after looking at the previews.

And so I did, and had a shower thought. And it suddenly made sense.

This steaming pile of dung is not a screenplay, it's an avant-garde play for a third-rate shitty modernist theater. You know, the one where Hamlet is a one-legged paraplegic midget and everybody is dressed in costumes made from cardboard boxes and old newspapers and in the finale the actors start pelting the audience with apple cores.

Because fuck you, it's art or something.

 

[JohnDoe]

Other adaptations have not exactly had high budgets. More the opposite. But they've had heart and a great deal of love for the source material. (Well, the Soul Music one is a bit pants, but...).

I've made a similar comparison elsewhere, but those prior adaptations are kind of like your boyfriend(or girlfriend) decides to surprise you with the kind of fancy and romantic meal you'd really love, but they don't quite have the skill, luck, and resources to really pull it off. Still, even if its a little burned at the edges and the candles are all mismatched and everything is a bit fucky its all right because there is love and honesty in the effort. You can forgive some janky makeups and bad effects when everybody is putting in their most out of an honest love and effort.

This adaptation is not an honest effort, however.

 

[Sable]

Oh man, those old animations were low quality jank (especially visually) but I've not got it in my heart to hate them. The voice acting was pretty ok, and they had a few of their own jokes that were fairly discworld-y, they get a pass from me.

The Colour of Magic is actually a Colour of Magic/Light fantastic adaption rolled into one, and it suffers a little from this. It manages to get most of it though. Whilst the leads are a little miscast visually compared to the books, thematically they work fine- David Jason's heart was really into playing Rincewind (it being something he'd wanted to do for a long time, and even Pratchett basically said that Twoflower was supposed to be just exotically foreign. Plus you know, american tourists are as much of a stereotype as asian ones (plus a lot of what Agatea is hadn't really been codefied as of the first two books)

What I'm getting at with this autistic post is that whilst previous adaptions of Discworld stuff had their issues, they're issues with things like resources or time more than anything. This adaption of the Watch stuff is just pure soulless malice.

I wonder if Pterry were a little younger and alive if he'd poke fun of this sort of thing. He DID have Ankh-Morpork attacked by a living, expanding shopping mall after all.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

It's cheaper to include actual freaks of nature like troons than spending money on make up and costumes for dwarfs, vampires etc.

 

[Ellesse_warrior]

Haven't seen them in full for a long time, so it's hard to say, although I remember catching some of an episode of soul music a while back and thinking it was very dry. IIRC they are fairly straight adaption of the books so if you liked them it might be worth checking out.

It's '97 animation that's pretty jank and idk anything else that the studio ever animated. It's not unwatchable by any stretch and i think it's competent, but don't think your getting something crazy.

I watched wyrd sisters today and I think it's actually pretty good. It stuck to the books which is the most important thing. I don't mind the animation, it reminds me of the type of cartoons we had when I was a kid and I actually much prefer hand drawn animation to the type common now in animations.

 

[Bird In Flight]

Oh Gods this looks horrible.

I’ve been reading Discworld novels for nearly 30 years now and this looks like a fucking travesty.

I wonder if the (hideous) decision to make Cheery a human Troon as opposed to a female dwarf is partly due to woke hand wringing about casting people with dwarfism in fantasy dwarf roles?

I’m annoyed at Sybil. By all means cast a black actress but keep her true to her character- she’s meant to be an aristo animal hobbyist in her 40s. It doesn’t stop her being a strong woman just because she’s not Catwoman. And why do you Need Sybil to be an ass kicking vigilante when you have Angua?

 

[Jub-Jub]

I watched wyrd sisters today and I think it's actually pretty good. It stuck to the books which is the most important thing. I don't mind the animation, it reminds me of the type of cartoons we had when I was a kid and I actually much prefer hand drawn animation to the type common now in animations.

Glad you enjoyed it. I too like the animation and appreciate the effort that was put in, as there are a lot of camera angle/shot changes that could have easily been one flat shot for a cheaper production. Thought i should put in the warning though as i remember a large section of weebs pissing and moaning about One punch man S2 being the most unwatchable shit ever due to a slight animation downgrade from S1. I imagine they'd lose it at the sight of something like wyrd sisters.

Give Soul Music a go when you get a chance. I linked ep1 earlier because i didn't see a FULL version, but i think that channel had all of the parts.

 

[Bongsnake McGee]

Soul Music is, with the greatest respect - terrible. A stilted adaptation of one of Pratchett's weakest novels.

The soundtrack, however, is fucking banging.