The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Lurker]

Did your account get hacked?

lol no, Eris-chan. sometimes i like to switch it up. since he was actually making an effort to argue without being a dick, i decided to respond to him in kind. Who knew that choosing to properly type out sentences would make someone automatically assume you're hacked?

You’re right, especially when it comes to certain demographics, but it’s not just societal pressure. Haven’t you been a teenager yourself? A low sex-drive is not the norm, especially for teenagers and young-adults.

i came out like this, full beard and everything.

 

[Megatardingo]

You’re right, especially when it comes to certain demographics, but it’s not just societal pressure. Haven’t you been a teenager yourself? A low sex-drive is not the norm, especially for teenagers and young-adults.

That's why masturbation exists. I have to shit daily too, that doesn't excuse doing it on the floor, you hold it in and go to a bathroom

 

[Narutard]

That's why masturbation exists. I have to shit daily too, that doesn't excuse doing it on the floor, you hold it in and go to a bathroom

Are you asexual by any chance? Suffering from low sexdrive? Or are you simply autistic?

 

[gang weeder]

Lol I guess you're right.

You're right that we can't stop teens from having sex. However, we can dissuade them from doing it. The younger generation has sex because they want to prove something. They feel that if they aren't fucking like rabbits on meth they are not "enough". You see that all the time: guys get clowned on by their friends for "getting no bitches"; girls get called ugly, flat, and fat; social media is full of rich, attractive, young influencers flaunting their newest hole or pole. All of these factors work to pressure them into getting laid, which often leads to an unwanted kid, an STI, or, God forbid, an abortion. I'd argue that it also contributes somewhat to what feminists call "rape culture"; young, mentally unstable men (and occasionally women) get overwhelmed by that feeling of inadequacy, and from their state of despair they decide that the only way for them to have sex and thus be accepted by their peers is through brute force. That isn't to say that rape is justified in any stretch of the word, mind you, but it is something that needs to be understood if we want to find a worthwhile solution.
Anyways, I think that the best way to dissuade teens and young adults from having sex is if we ban abortion. It seems to me that people think of abortion as a sort of safety net in case their condom rips or pills don't work. If we make it legally unavailable for non-emergency reasons, fewer people would consider it as a viable option, especially when something like abstinence is much easier to do.

You very literally can stop teens from having sex. Obviously I agree with everything else you said, but this constant line of "well teenagers are going to have sex you can't stop them!!1!" is a false premise. The fact is, these people do not want to stop teenagers from having sex. The prevailing cultural attitude is that it's kinda okay and maybe even it's a good thing, so it is permitted. But if adults simply decided not to allow teenagers into situations where they could have sex, that would be that. And this used to be much more of the cultural norm before the advent of cheap widespread contraception.

 

[Megatardingo]

Are you asexual by any chance? Suffering from low sexdrive? Or are you simply autistic?

If you want instructions on how masturbation works I'm sure there's videos around the internet, no need to be shy about it.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

You’re right, especially when it comes to certain demographics, but it’s not just societal pressure. Haven’t you been a teenager yourself? A low sex-drive is not the norm, especially for teenagers and young-adults.

Wanting to have sex is entirely separate from believing yourself to be incomplete or inferior for not having had it.

 

[Lurker]

Okay, so to all of our experts in this thread:

How do you propose stopping teenagers from having sex? I've seen quite a few of you say that banning abortion would be a deterrent, but would it be? I've seen the "deterrent" argument used by a lot of people for various things, for example, the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent for people not to commit heinous crimes. Yet, heinous crimes are still committed. Even in the days of Prohibition, people were still drinking alcohol. Banning something does not deter people from doing what they are going to do, if they really want to do it. Of course you'll likely respond with, "Well then why have laws, then? People are just going to break them, right?" Laws exist so that society as a whole can function. Most laws tend to exist to protect people from the things other people do to them, like murder and theft. Abortion is a contentious issue and ultimately your opinion on whether it "hurts another person" will of course affect your argument. That's fine, that's your opinion, and discourse can sometimes lead to mutual understanding and possible solutions.

But my question still remains, how do you prevent teenagers from having sex? Teaching them abstinence doesn't work, I guarantee you they will do the deed regardless, if they really want to. How much supervision do you expect parents to have over their teens in order to prevent this? Save for locking your teen in a windowless room and literally never letting them leave, I can't see how this can be avoided.

Which is why contraceptives are a good thing and we should encourage both partners to use it, but with the understanding that mistakes happen, and sometimes they might not work.

 

[gang weeder]

How do you propose stopping teenagers from having sex? I've seen quite a few of you say that banning abortion would be a deterrent, but would it be?

No, of course banning abortion alone would not be sufficient. Stopping underage sex simply requires that parents know what their children are doing and where they are going, and forbidding them from going places or doing things where they might end up "getting laid." No going out to unsupervised house parties where a bunch of minors are getting blackout drunk and the like.

Of course, some kids can and will lie to get around this, which is why I keep repeating over and over that the culture in a broad sense instills the belief that underage sex is Not That Bad, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a parent trying your best in an otherwise degenerate society, yeah, it's gonna be hard to guarantee that your kid isn't able to slip something by you somehow. But the stronger the community is and the more united they are in a belief that teenagers should not be sexually active, the less of a possibility this becomes. The Amish, for instance, do not have rampant casual teenage sex as the norm in their society.

Which is why contraceptives are a good thing and we should encourage both partners to use it, but with the understanding that mistakes happen, and sometimes they might not work.

Teenagers should not be taught how to have sex. If we agree with the premise that teenagers should not be having sex, it is incoherent to then teach them how to do it anyways. To say that this sends a mixed message would be putting it mildly. Those who do have sex anyways should be met with harsh social sanctions, and if a child is produced, expected to marry. Again, this is the Amish approach, and it is the correct one.

 

[Frisk]

No, of course banning abortion alone would not be sufficient. Stopping underage sex simply requires that parents know what their children are doing and where they are going, and forbidding them from going places or doing things where they might end up "getting laid." No going out to unsupervised house parties where a bunch of minors are getting blackout drunk and the like.

Of course, some kids can and will lie to get around this, which is why I keep repeating over and over that the culture in a broad sense instills the belief that underage sex is Not That Bad, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a parent trying your best in an otherwise degenerate society, yeah, it's gonna be hard to guarantee that your kid isn't able to slip something by you somehow. But the stronger the community is and the more united they are in a belief that teenagers should not be sexually active, the less of a possibility this becomes. The Amish, for instance, do not have rampant casual teenage sex as the norm in their society.

Teenagers should not be taught how to have sex. If we agree with the premise that teenagers should not be having sex, it is incoherent to then teach them how to do it anyways. To say that this sends a mixed message would be putting it mildly. Those who do have sex anyways should be met with harsh social sanctions, and if a child is produced, expected to marry. Again, this is the Amish approach, and it is the correct one.

 

[gang weeder]

I appreciate the tacit admission that "you literally can't stop teenagers from having sex" is a false claim.

 

[Narutard]

I appreciate the tacit admission that "you literally can't stop teenagers from having sex" is a false claim.

 

[Lurker]

No, of course banning abortion alone would not be sufficient. Stopping underage sex simply requires that parents know what their children are doing and where they are going, and forbidding them from going places or doing things where they might end up "getting laid." No going out to unsupervised house parties where a bunch of minors are getting blackout drunk and the like.

Of course, some kids can and will lie to get around this, which is why I keep repeating over and over that the culture in a broad sense instills the belief that underage sex is Not That Bad, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a parent trying your best in an otherwise degenerate society, yeah, it's gonna be hard to guarantee that your kid isn't able to slip something by you somehow. But the stronger the community is and the more united they are in a belief that teenagers should not be sexually active, the less of a possibility this becomes. The Amish, for instance, do not have rampant casual teenage sex as the norm in their society.



Teenagers should not be taught how to have sex. If we agree with the premise that teenagers should not be having sex, it is incoherent to then teach them how to do it anyways. To say that this sends a mixed message would be putting it mildly. Those who do have sex anyways should be met with harsh social sanctions, and if a child is produced, expected to marry. Again, this is the Amish approach, and it is the correct one.

Well, I don't know what to tell you, guy. What you are asking for and what reality actually is are two different things, and no matter how much you want teens to "just not have sex", ultimately, it's going to happen, and all we can do is provide them safe options so that they don't end up with STDs or the girl ending up pregnant.

Communities like the Amish, while seeming very quaint and, er, "non-degenerate", often end up having issues where young girls just magically end up pregnant, and yet no one knows how. Kinda similar to those crazy Mormon compounds. Maybe you want that sort of life, but most of us don't.

Like we can sit here and argue back and forth, but neither of us are going to budge, and that's okay. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and if you ever happen to have children, then you can raise them however you like.

edit: Out of sheer curiosity, have you ever visited Lancaster, PA, home of the Amish? I have several times, but it's cool if you haven't. It's certainly a way of life, and if it works for them, more power to them, but man it does not look all that fun, but then, I wasn't raised in that belief structure. Did you know that they actually do use phones, but they are literally outside of the house in like a little phone booth? It's quite adorable. The landscape is also really pretty, if you're into lots of farmland, but it gives a sense of tranquility, away from all the noise.

 

[gang weeder]

You as well.

Well, I don't know what to tell you, guy. What you are asking for and what reality actually is are two different things, and no matter how much you want teens to "just not have sex", ultimately, it's going to happen, and all we can do is provide them safe options so that they don't end up with STDs or the girl ending up pregnant.

Communities like the Amish, while seeming very quaint and, er, "non-degenerate", often end up having issues where young girls just magically end up pregnant, and yet no one knows how. Kinda similar to those crazy Mormon compounds. Maybe you want that sort of life, but most of us don't.

Like we can sit here and argue back and forth, but neither of us are going to budge, and that's okay. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and if you ever happen to have children, then you can raise them however you like.

You asked how to stop teenagers from having sex; I told you. I am not sure why you asked the question if you planned to meet any answer given with "well that's not reality." No shit, again, current reality is one where underage sex is all but actively encouraged, as demonstrated by attitudes like yours. Ironically rates of teenage sex have been going down sharply due to countervailing factors (primarily the disintegration of community/social fabric + rise of helicopter parenting) anyways, even as the culture broadly becomes ever more celebratory of sexual deviancy.

 

[Lurker]

You as well.



You asked how to stop teenagers from having sex; I told you. I am not sure why you asked the question if you planned to meet any answer given with "well that's not reality." No shit, again, current reality is one where underage sex is all but actively encouraged, as demonstrated by attitudes like yours. Ironically rates of teenage sex have been going down sharply due to countervailing factors (primarily the disintegration of community/social fabric + rise of helicopter parenting) anyways, even as the culture broadly becomes ever more celebratory of sexual deviancy.

And I'm responding to you with my assertion that what you're asking for just isn't really possible. Perhaps you're convinced that the world around you is full of degenerates and that all the kids these days are having sex all the time and all the teen girls are getting pregnant and getting abortions at an alarming rate, but I don't really think that's true. Society hasn't dissolved despite all this rampant teenage sex that you think is going on.

If you don't mind, and feel free to tell me to go fuck myself if you aren't comfortable sharing, but what kind of upbringing did you have? Was it more conservative? Was it perhaps a liberal upbringing and you became soured to it? I'm just trying to understand "your side", you know?

edit: Ah, sorry again, but I just wanted you to know that I made an edit on my post prior to this one, if you're interested in responding to that. You don't have to, though.

 

[What the shit]

Teenagers are going to have sex regardless of how much you say it's bad and how awful the repercussions are. There is no stopping that. Saying "we should shame them to oblivion for doing something humans do" makes you sound like an immense faggot.

 

[gang weeder]

edit: Out of sheer curiosity, have you ever visited Lancaster, PA, home of the Amish? I have several times, but it's cool if you haven't. It's certainly a way of life, and if it works for them, more power to them, but man it does not look all that fun, but then, I wasn't raised in that belief structure. Did you know that they actually do use phones, but they are literally outside of the house in like a little phone booth? It's quite adorable. The landscape is also really pretty, if you're into lots of farmland, but it gives a sense of tranquility, away from all the noise.

No, I haven't, though I'd like to. I bring up the Amish not because I think we need to reject technology in the way that they have--on the contrary, smartphones and the like make it easier than ever to keep track of your kid, which again, is one reason why rates of teenage sex are actually going sharply down. I just bring up the Amish as an undeniable concrete example of a society with proper sexual norms and a close-knit community. The claim that this somehow "isn't possible" is therefore objectively false. "I don't like it" or "I think it's bad" =/= "it is actually impossible." No, you just want it to be impossible.

If you don't mind, and feel free to tell me to go fuck myself if you aren't comfortable sharing, but what kind of upbringing did you have? Was it more conservative? Was it perhaps a liberal upbringing and you became soured to it? I'm just trying to understand "your side", you know?

I grew up in the American South in what I would call a mildly conservative environment. Church was a big part of life, most adults around me were probably Republicans (though being a child, I was apolitical and didn't pay attention to things like that yet), and underage sex was definitely considered sinful. I don't think I had any friends that had sex as teenagers. None that I can remember off the top of my head, at least. Despite this, people I knew in high school dated actively, smoked weed, etc., and I have no doubts some of the kids in that school were going at it. Just none of the ones in my more religious and relatively high-achieving circle.

My parents were definitely Christian and conservative, but do not fit the modern stereotype of bible-thumping tyrants. Going to church and youth group was mostly the extent of religion in our lives, more of a social center of sorts than anything else. Today, while they are still Trump voters, they support gay marriage and hold other viewpoints that I find incompatible with Christianity, and I'm far more conservative than they ever were. When I first began paying attention to politics, I was liberal at first, but this was simply because I had only ever been exposed to the liberal side of the story via the public education system.

As soon as I was exposed to coherent counter-viewpoints to liberalism, I changed my views quickly and easily, because the truth of these "conservative" views seemed self-evident to me.

And I'm responding to you with my assertion that what you're asking for just isn't really possible. Perhaps you're convinced that the world around you is full of degenerates and that all the kids these days are having sex all the time and all the teen girls are getting pregnant and getting abortions at an alarming rate, but I don't really think that's true. Society hasn't dissolved despite all this rampant teenage sex that you think is going on.

Again, as I pointed out in the very passage you're replying to, teenage sex and pregnancy are actually at historic lows right now due to a variety of factors. Good ol' fornication has been replaced with other, possibly even more harmful forms of degeneracy for Gen Z (LGBT identification, especially trans, and porn addiction).

 

[Narutard]

I grew up in the American South in what I would call a mildly conservative environment. Church was a big part of life, most adults around me were probably Republicans (though being a child, I was apolitical and didn't pay attention to things like that yet), and underage sex was definitely considered sinful. I don't think I had any friends that had sex as teenagers. None that I can remember off the top of my head, at least. Despite this, people I knew in high school dated actively, smoked weed, etc., and I have no doubts some of the kids in that school were going at it. Just none of the ones in my more religious and relatively high-achieving circle.

My parents were definitely Christian and conservative, but do not fit the modern stereotype of bible-thumping tyrants. Going to church and youth group was mostly the extent of religion in our lives, more of a social center of sorts than anything else. Today, while they are still Trump voters, they support gay marriage and hold other viewpoints that I find incompatible with Christianity, and I'm far more conservative than they ever were. When I first began paying attention to politics, I was liberal at first, but this was simply because I had only ever been exposed to the liberal side of the story via the public education system.

Not to diss you or concern troll, but you seem awfully detached from your own childhood. Did you ever get tested for autism?

 

[snailslime]

Again, as I pointed out in the very passage you're replying to, teenage sex and pregnancy are actually at historic lows right now due to a variety of factors. Good ol' fornication has been replaced with other, possibly even more harmful forms of degeneracy for Gen Z (LGBT identification, especially trans, and porn addiction).

Homosexuality isn't talked about much if at all in the Bible. Especially not lesbianism.

You only pretend to use the Bible to justify your personal convictions.

 

[Lurker]

No, I haven't, though I'd like to. I bring up the Amish not because I think we need to reject technology in the way that they have--on the contrary, smartphones and the like make it easier than ever to keep track of your kid, which again, is one reason why rates of teenage sex are actually going sharply down. I just bring up the Amish as an undeniable concrete example of a society with proper sexual norms and a close-knit community. The claim that this somehow "isn't possible" is therefore objectively false.



I grew up in the American South in what I would call a mildly conservative environment. Church was a big part of life, most adults around me were probably Republicans (though being a child, I was apolitical and didn't pay attention to things like that yet), and underage sex was definitely considered sinful. I don't think I had any friends that had sex as teenagers. None that I can remember off the top of my head, at least. Despite this, people I knew in high school dated actively, smoked weed, etc., and I have no doubts some of the kids in that school were going at it. Just none of the ones in my more religious and relatively high-achieving circle.

My parents were definitely Christian and conservative, but do not fit the modern stereotype of bible-thumping tyrants. Going to church and youth group was mostly the extent of religion in our lives, more of a social center of sorts than anything else. Today, while they are still Trump voters, they support gay marriage and hold other viewpoints that I find incompatible with Christianity, and I'm far more conservative than they ever were. When I first began paying attention to politics, I was liberal at first, but this was simply because I had only ever been exposed to the liberal side of the story via the public education system.

As soon as I was exposed to coherent counter-viewpoints to liberalism, I changed my views quickly and easily, because the truth of these "conservative" views seemed self-evident to me.



Again, as I pointed out in the very passage you're replying to, teenage sex and pregnancy are actually at historic lows right now due to a variety of factors. Good ol' fornication has been replaced with other, possibly even more harmful forms of degeneracy for Gen Z (LGBT identification, especially trans, and porn addiction).

eeeeehh too much text, i don't like having to respond to thiiings reeee

Sorry for the rather short response to your paragraph about the Amish, but do you know that there is quite a lot of sexual abuse in those communities? That the seemingly idyllic nature of the Amish community isn't quite so? You can look it up if you'd like, but your assertion that Amish communities are free from such things like teenage sex and whatever baggage comes with that just... isn't true.

I kind of figured as much. No offense, of course. It's a pretty common thing to hear the whole "from the South, churchgoing family, some degree of conservative", so to hear it from you, with your views on abortion, makes perfect sense. I can't tell you that your childhood was wrong and that you were raised wrong, because a lot of kids were raised the same way, and that's fine. It's interesting that when you started getting into politics, that you started out liberal despite your upbringing, and that when countered with opposing viewpoints, they somehow made more sense to you and that's why you became conservative. I can't sit here and tell you you're wrong, because I think, like all of us, myself included, that we are a byproduct of our upbringing. It's cultures colliding, and honestly, I don't really know how something like that can be "fixed".

Well, if teenage sex and pregnancy are indeed at their lowest, then that should be a good thing, right? After all, we are in the abortion debate thread, so why should it matter if Gen Z is doing whatever dumb gay shit they do, it's not like they're having sex or getting pregnant, so abortion can't really happen when there's nothing to abort.

Sorry if I'm all over the place, just a bit tired.

 

[male pattern malding]

I support sex ed for teens, but not the woke kind that's about normalising fetishes and 8 billion genders. Just the basic facts of sexual reproduction and that penis-in-vagina -> pregnancy. Preventing a kid from finding out anything beyond "the stork brings a baby after mommy and daddy kiss" until the age of 18 is just not realistic, and likely not sufficient to stop them from having sex anyway. The mechanics of it are probably mostly instinctive and once a boy and a girl are naked in bed together, they'll figure it out even if they haven't been explicitly told that tab A goes into slot B. They just won't have any clue about the associated risks.

Sure, if you supervise your kids strictly enough you can prevent that situation (ie. getting in bed with a member of the opposite sex) from occurring in the first place - but if that's the case, knowing about sex isn't going to make a difference either way.

To circle back on the topic of abortion and back up my earlier point - in my country over the past 50 years the number of abortions per 100 live births has gone from nearly 200 to less than 40. This despite no additional legal restrictions, nor any major shift in moral sentiment, just the availability of reliable contraception. The downside being that there are much fewer pregnancies in the first place.

Previously if unprotected sex led to pregnancy, the parents would often decide to keep it even if they weren't actively aiming to have a child. Whereas now, couples will generally default to using contraception until they decide they're ready for a baby. It is certainly preferable to having tens of thousands of abortions, but if we want to maintain the population there needs to be something to encourage people to have more children now that it's so easy to opt out.