The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[ChikN10der]

I was referring to in the case of rape... If a woman is raped, she can get pregnant through no fault of her own. Thus, without abortion, she is being unfairly forced to bear her child and all costs associated with it

Most pro life people are willing to make an exception in cases of rape. Funny that when pro abortion people have to justify their position they always retreat to rape and when the mother's health is in jeopardy.
If that was the abortion debate it'd be a lot more civil. But pro abortion governors and lawmakers want legal abortion up to birth.

Virtually nobody is against abortion to save the mother. Most pro life people are ok with a rape exemption. Nobody of consequence is arguing to ban contraception.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Virtually nobody is against abortion to save the mother. Most pro life people are ok with a rape exemption. Nobody of consequence is arguing to ban contraception.

Funny because you and many others were just arguing that abortion was not okay in the case of rape or the mother's life, earlier. So was @Erischan

So which is it?

 

[ChikN10der]

Funny because you and many others were just arguing that abortion was not okay in the case of rape or the mother's life, earlier. So was @Erischan

So which is it?

I never argued those things, I'm not the same person as anyone who disagrees with you.
All I'm saying is, if that's your line on abortion, you're pretty much pro life.

There's certainly valid debate to be had on those topics, but no, you don't get to find one wacko opinion and paint everyone with it. Nobody is proposing a law that bans abortion to save the mother's life. People are proposing laws that allow abortion of a healthy 9 month old fetus.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

There's certainly valid debate to be had on those topics, but no, you don't get to find one wacko opinion and paint everyone with it. Nobody is proposing a law that bans abortion to save the mother's life. People are proposing laws that allow abortion of a healthy 9 month old fetus.

Well @Erischan was wanting a law for that

No woman is going to abort a healthy 9 month old fetus. Most abortions are done very early on. The earlier it's done, the less invasive and safe it is.

 

[ChikN10der]

Well @Erischan was wanting a law for that

Well then I suggest you don't vote for him for the senate I guess. He's fucking with you, at least, I think he is. Maybe he's just crazy, or even worse, plain old wrong.

 

[ChikN10der]

Well @Erischan was wanting a law for that

No woman is going to abort a healthy 9 month old fetus. Most abortions are done very early on. The earlier it's done, the less invasive and safe it is.

Then why do lawmakers insist on making laws to allow just that?

And "no woman"? Really? There's a lot of crazy people in the world. Some of them kill full grown no shit adult human beings. So of course women exist who would do just that.

It doesn't have to be a lot to matter. Statistically, school shootings are utterly insignificant as a cause of death. Yet we're all pretty much in agreement they're bad and worth trying to stop.

 

[Lemmingwise]

No woman is going to abort a healthy 9 month old fetus. Most abortions are done very early on. The earlier it's done, the less invasive and safe it is.

There are women that kill their kid after it's born. so yes, of course there are also women who will abort a 9 month old fetus.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

There are women that kill their kid after it's born. so yes, of course there are also women who will abort a 9 month old fetus.

I am not saying they don't exist, but they are incredibly rare.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I am not saying they don't exist, but they are incredibly rare.

Like rape babies then.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Like rape babies then.

Way more rare. The vast, vast majority of women are going to get one very early on in the pregnancy. Like, as soon as they possibly can. The earlier, the safer and less invasive it is

 

[ChikN10der]

Way more rare. The vast, vast majority of women are going to get one very early on in the pregnancy. Like, as soon as they possibly can. The earlier, the safer and less invasive it is

The vast vast majority of people never murder anyone. Yet we still have laws against it.
Also I think you're making up your "facts" here. What are you basing these statements on?

 

[Lemmingwise]

Way more rare. The vast, vast majority of women are going to get one very early on in the pregnancy. Like, as soon as they possibly can. The earlier, the safer and less invasive it is

I don't know if that's true or not, so I've decided to look up the numbers.

Usually when I look at studies I do so with a fine comb. This time I'm taking numbers at face value. If anyone takes a closer look, let me know.

I'm also taking the first study I find rather than an appropriate year. I just want a rough ballpark figure.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/
32,101 rape pregnancies per year in the US. (1996)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24314113/

6,369,000 pregnancies per year. (2009)

Quick headmath, that means about 0.5% of pregnancies are rape pregnancies (we'll leave out


Let's look at abortions:

1.2% of pregnancies are aborted late (after 21 weeks).

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

(2016)

---

As for legality, it's not legal in any of the countries I looked at.

Italy allows abortion up to 7 weeks
France, Belgium and Germany only allow it up to 12 weeks.
United states defines it as "viability to live outside the womb" which with current medical technology is about 21 weeks.
Netherlands and UK up to 24 weeks.

BTW lifesaving abortions are legal in every country in the world except el salvador and vatican city.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

I don't know if that's true or not, so I've decided to look up the numbers.

Usually when I look at studies I do so with a fine comb. This time I'm taking numbers at face value. If anyone takes a closer look, let me know.

I'm also taking the first study I find rather than an appropriate year. I just want a rough ballpark figure.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/
32,101 rape pregnancies per year in the US. (1996)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24314113/

6,369,000 pregnancies per year. (2009)

Quick headmath, that means about 0.5% of pregnancies are rape pregnancies (we'll leave out


Let's look at abortions:

1.2% of pregnancies are aborted late (after 21 weeks).

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

(2016)

---

As for legality, it's not legal in any of the countries I looked at.

Italy allows abortion up to 7 weeks
France, Belgium and Germany only allow it up to 12 weeks.
United states defines it as "viability to live outside the womb" which with current medical technology is about 21 weeks.
Netherlands and UK up to 24 weeks.

BTW lifesaving abortions are legal in every country in the world except el salvador and vatican city.

That doesn't mean that 0.5% of abortions are rape abortions, though. We are talking about abortions, not pregnancies in general

 

[Lemmingwise]

That doesn't mean that 0.5% of abortions are rape abortions, though. We are talking about abortions, not pregnancies in general

50% of rape pregnancies are aborted (same study, same link)

I mean the truth was somewhere in the middle between us, as there are currently no legal late abortions.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

50% of rape pregnancies are aborted (same study, same link)

I mean the truth was somewhere in the middle between us, as there are currently no legal late abortions.

So then that would be ~16k rape abortions. According to https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00053774.htm there was 1.2 million abortions in the US (seems high but what do I know?), which means it would be ~1.25%.

 

[Lemmingwise]

So then that would be ~16k rape abortions. According to https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00053774.htm there was 1.2 million abortions in the US (seems high but what do I know?), which means it would be ~1.25%.

So percentage of abortions that were for rape pregnancies and percentage of late abortions are both 1.2% ish.

Pretty comparable then, yes?

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

So percentage of abortions that were for rape pregnancies and percentage of late abortions are both 1.2% ish.

Pretty comparable then, yes?

Yep, although there's a big difference between 21 weeks and 9 months.

My big problem is people that want to unconditionally ban abortion.

 

[Eris!]

but by taking away people's choices, you are still forcing them to do something. That's how the world works

Incorrect.

I was referring to in the case of rape... If a woman is raped, she can get pregnant through no fault of her own. Thus, without abortion, she is being unfairly forced to bear her child and all costs associated with it

By her rapist, not by me.

Well, as long as you're willing to help those women pay for their baby that you're forcing them to carry,

The keywords in this sentence are "You're" and "forcing."
Both of them are false.
I am not the one who forced her.
I have done literally nothing to her.
I have no relationship to her whatsoever and no responsibility to feed her baby.
I'm not its dad. I'm not anything to it. I owe it literally nothing.

It is horrible to force her to carry it to term, but it's even worse when she's left with the medical bills and the cost of raising the child. An 18 year old woman who gets raped isn't going to be able to afford that shit very easily

That's her problem, not society's problem, and certainly not mine.

Well you can't really compare taxes to child support.
-You give one to the state to support the country/community and reciprocate the opportinities and favour the state gives you.
-You pay child support because you have a moral and penal debt towards the child

Taxation is theft. You have no moral debt to the state like you do with a child.

The difference is the source of the money. For one the source is the biological father. For the other it's from men in general. In the former the state only steps in if he does not fulfill the responsibility. In the latter the state organizes the collection and distribution of money.

The situation is that men with absolutely no responsibility toward the baby are forced against their will to pay for its needs.
That is morally wrong. It is theft.

"Some anti abortion people don't want to give out welfare, why?"

Because wealth redistribution is unjustifiable, and because people are responsible for feeding themselves.

No woman is going to abort a healthy 9 month old fetus.

People would abort 18 year olds if you legalized it.

My big problem is people that want to unconditionally ban abortion.

How dare I want to unconditionally ban murder.

Way more rare. The vast, vast majority of women are going to get one very early on in the pregnancy. Like, as soon as they possibly can. The earlier, the safer and less invasive it is

What's your stance on the 99% of abortions that are purely elective and do not involve rape or medical complications that risk the mother's life?

Well then I suggest you don't vote for him for the senate I guess. He's fucking with you, at least, I think he is. Maybe he's just crazy, or even worse, plain old wrong.

None of the above.

 

[Lemmingwise]

The situation is that men with absolutely no responsibility toward the baby are forced against their will to pay for its needs.
That is morally wrong. It is theft.

Yes, taxation is theft, but also unavoidable, because states with taxes are able to field better professional armies than those without them.

I agree that it is morally evil, but we have no other way of organizing defense, or there would be a taxless state somewhere.

 

[Eris!]

Yes, taxation is theft, but also unavoidable, because states with taxes are able to field better professional armies than those without them.

I agree that it is morally evil, but we have no other way of organizing defense, or there would be a taxless state somewhere.

That's irrelevant to a discussion of morality. The retards' argument is that we are reneging on our duty to feed some stranger's baby. No such duty exists.