The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

This is a bad definition which defines murder as being illegal rather than immoral. Probably because it was written by atheists/agnostics who didn't want to appeal to morality in a secular dictionary. It defines state sanctioned genocide as not murder. That's silly.

It doesn't matter what you think. It's the legal definition. From a law dictionary. Written by experts in the field of law. Again, facts over feels.

It's not murder if it's justified

Exactly! A 12 year old who was raped by her uncle, a woman who is pregnant with a fetus with anencephaly, or someone who simply can't afford a child is justified in her actions. Now you're getting it!

What is it then? An alien? A figment of our imagination? Just a clump of carbon?

A potential human. Just like an acorn is a potential oak.

Right, as I said before, you're the one applying some reason to this discussion.

Can I hear what the girls would say about the removal of punishment for these acts?

@Muh Vagina @Bad Take Crucifier

Happy about repealing additiional charges for those that harm pregnant women and their "parasite"?

I acknowledge that this law is flawed, thanks.

"I must remind you that the negro is not a real human being and therefore slavery is legal, you idiot religious abolitionists!" - Democrats pre civil war

Lol, don't pretend that you give a shit about black people. You probably think that quote is based. But black people are living, breathing, have the ability to think and feel pain, and have loved ones. Your comparison is made of fail.
 
At every school I ever attended excluding K-5, there was a literal bucket of condoms in the student lounge or student outreach office or whatever. Planned Parenthood gives the pill out like it's candy. It is trivially easy to get birth control. This does not reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies, it actually increases them by teaching children that unmarried sex is normal, natural, and expected of them. IIRC something like 60% of aborted fetuses were conceived while using birth control.
We all have different experiences and mine was a very rural town that shamed young women from having sex, but also actively withholding information that would prevent unwanted pregnancies because they assumed we'd all be scared straight to dare have sex. Joke's on them, a lot became early grandparents.
 
It doesn't matter what you think. It's the legal definition. From a law dictionary. Written by experts in the field of law. Again, facts over feels.
I'm supposed to care what they think? No one is disagreeing that the law defines it that way. I'm disagreeing with "That's the way the law is currently, therefore that's the way the law should be." It's silly. Anyone who views the law as important in-and-of-itself is retarded. Obedience to laws is a practical matter, not a moral matter. You do it because people will shoot you if you don't. Something being legal does not mean it is right. The state saying someone doesn't have rights doesn't mean they don't, it means the state is wrong. The state can be wrong.

A fundamental flaw in moral relativism or moral constructivism is that the concept of being "wrong" ceases to exist. All "opinions" become equally valid and none are invalid. That's stupid.
Exactly! A 12 year old who was raped by her uncle, a woman who is pregnant with a fetus with anencephaly, or someone who simply can't afford a child is justified in her actions. Now you're getting it!
How do any of those things justify murdering an innocent human being?
A potential human. Just like an acorn is a potential oak.
An acorn is a kind of oak. It is just as much an oak as a tree is. They are the same species, and the acorn is not the same oak as the tree it fell from. It is a new one, with its own ontological identity.
I acknowledge that this law is flawed, thanks.
You don't seem to. All your arguments hinge on it not being capable of being flawed.
But black people are living, breathing, have the ability to think and feel pain, and have loved ones.
If none of that were true they'd still be human. The only factor that makes someone a human is being a human. A human who can't breathe is a human. A human who isn't conscious is a human. All humans are human.

We all have different experiences and mine was a very rural town that shamed young women from having sex,
Good.
, but also actively withholding information that would prevent unwanted pregnancies because they assumed we'd all be scared straight to dare have sex.
They assumed you would behave properly.
Joke's on them, a lot became early grandparents.
How is the joke on them? They didn't fuck their lives up. The idiots who became early parents through their own foolish, indulgent, and shortsighted actions did.
 
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I want to give people birth control only if you pro-choicers agree to ban the devil media that ENCOURAGES young people to have sex at an early age. How can YOU say it's bad to ban birth control but in the same breath CONDEMN anyone who wants to put a leash on the satanic pedophile media who actively ENCOURAGES abortions through their promotion of sex?
 
I want to give people birth control only if you pro-choicers agree to ban the devil media that ENCOURAGES young people to have sex at an early age. How can YOU say it's bad to ban birth control but in the same breath CONDEMN anyone who wants to put a leash on the satanic pedophile media who actively ENCOURAGES abortions through their promotion of sex?
Kill all the media for being demonic and renouncing their own humanity, declaring war on us. Then proceed with normal, uncorrupted human life. Problem solved.
 
I'm supposed to care what they think? No one is disagreeing that the law defines it that way. I'm disagreeing with "That's the way the law is currently, therefore that's the way the law should be." It's silly. Anyone who views the law as important in-and-of-itself is retarded. Obedience to laws is a practical matter, not a moral matter. You do it because people will shoot you if you don't. Something being legal does not mean it is right. The state saying someone doesn't have rights doesn't mean they don't, it means the state is wrong. The state can be wrong.

A fundamental flaw in moral relativism or moral constructivism is that the concept of being "wrong" ceases to exist. All "opinions" become equally valid and none are invalid. That's stupid.

How do any of those things justify murdering an innocent human being?

An acorn is a kind of oak. It is just as much an oak as a tree is. They are the same species, and the acorn is not the same oak as the tree it fell from. It is a new one, with its own ontological identity.

You don't seem to. All your arguments hinge on it not being capable of being flawed.

If none of that were true they'd still be human. The only factor that makes someone a human is being a human. A human who can't breathe is a human. A human who isn't conscious is a human. All humans are human.


Good.

They assumed you would behave properly.

How is the joke on them? They didn't fuck their lives up. The idiots who became early grandparents through their own foolish, indulgent, and shortsighted actions did.
Lmao ok pal. Have fun thinking along those lines if you ever have a kid and always have problems with them, and once they leave they never contact you because you want to shame them over normal things.

Stay angry I guess.
 
How do any of those things justify murdering an innocent human being?
Are you actually saying that a 12 year old girl who was raped by her uncle should actually carry the baby to term? That's outright sadistic.
 
Are you actually saying that a 12 year old girl who was raped by her uncle should actually carry the baby to term? That's outright sadistic.
Are you actually saying she should murder an innocent child who has not harmed her in any way, purely out of her own convenience?
I notice you replied with snarky nonsense, while ignoring these substantive arguments I made against you:
I'm supposed to care what they think? No one is disagreeing that the law defines it that way. I'm disagreeing with "That's the way the law is currently, therefore that's the way the law should be." It's silly. Anyone who views the law as important in-and-of-itself is retarded. Obedience to laws is a practical matter, not a moral matter. You do it because people will shoot you if you don't. Something being legal does not mean it is right. The state saying someone doesn't have rights doesn't mean they don't, it means the state is wrong. The state can be wrong.

A fundamental flaw in moral relativism or moral constructivism is that the concept of being "wrong" ceases to exist. All "opinions" become equally valid and none are invalid. That's stupid.
How do any of those things justify murdering an innocent human being?
An acorn is a kind of oak. It is just as much an oak as a tree is. They are the same species, and the acorn is not the same oak as the tree it fell from. It is a new one, with its own ontological identity.
Is it because you have no rebuttal?


Ah, I see you're into QAnon.
Imagine ironically pretending that the media isn't corrupt and evil as some sort of cope for losing an argument.
I notice you replied with snarky nonsense, while ignoring these substantive arguments I made against you:
If I can apply your argument somewhere else where you don't want it to be applied, that is a very strong counterargument. It shows that your reasoning doesn't actually hold up, because if it did you would apply it absolutely everywhere it can be applied. You are engaging in special pleading, saying that this case is different without satisfactorily saying why. Your argument of "Making X illegal doesn't actually discourage X, so we shouldn't make it illegal," applies to LITERALLY EVERYTHING ILLEGAL. In order to actually make that argument without being a hypocrite you would have to be an abject anarchist, opposed to laws universally.

You aren't an abject anarchist, so your hypocrisy is exposed and your argument is negated.
Like what? Explain to me why murdering your child SHOULD be legal.
I agree, and yet here you are saying we should legalize murdering children.
Is it because you have no rebuttal?



It's really shockingly consistent how you people ignore any good faith engagement and actively foment bad faith engagement.
 
It may vary a bit from state to state, but at least in my state, you can go to the Family Planning clinic at the local health department to get your pap and pills, and as far as I know, parents do not have to be involved or give consent. The costs are sliding scale, so if you earn nothing, you pay nothing. They also give out condoms for free.

I believe the anonymity thing is a federal-level regulation, but one which states have been trying to fight in their own local courts. Could be wrong about this one, but the FP clinic giving pills and paps and rubbers is universal, I think, and I know the payment structure is.

Strongly anti-borshin states tend to basically reduce the number of clinics to zilch. I believe Alabama has, like, one. I forget the avenue by which they do this, but it's basically their means of complying with all regulations in the teeniest way possible. This mostly extends to the clinics that provide abortion, but those which don't also get caught in the crossfire. Some states also rebuff the forms of payment the clinics are allowed to receive.

Of course, I would fucking love it if PP would shut the fuck up and stop making political statements, but that's one of the frustrating things about putting yuppies in charge of something important. If one outright banned borshin wholesale, PP providing birth control, STD testing, paps, and general sex ed/family advice to poor communities would still be a very valuable and useful thing. It boggles the mind whenever that org tweets something as inane as it so often does - "how is this helping?"
 
In the case of abortion, as has been brought up many times, Roe V. Wade was intended to get the abortions out of the back alleys and take the coat hangers out of women's hands.
Roe V. Wade made it possible to regulate the practice of abortion. I'm not saying this is ideal, but that making abortion legal is definitely a better solution than driving it underground which has many unintended consequences.

Again, using falsified Kinsey research. People thought this was common at the time, since kinsey's research looked very credible, was taken very seriously and helped inform all types of ways in which society and sexuality was regarded.

But his research was very biased and intentionally so. I said it before, but I'll say it again, almost half of his female married sample (45%) was prostitutes living with their pimp (not even married). This gave the image that back alley abortions were very common for married americans, when it was only common for a very specific and very sexually active subset of american women.

I want to give people birth control only if you pro-choicers agree to ban the devil media that ENCOURAGES young people to have sex at an early age. How can YOU say it's bad to ban birth control but in the same breath CONDEMN anyone who wants to put a leash on the satanic pedophile media who actively ENCOURAGES abortions through their promotion of sex?

It's a valid point. And it's never foing to happen. That sexually charged media aimed at kids is part of their worldview that is sacrosanct. They'll condemn maybe some of the craziest excesses, like transkids stuff, but they agree with the fundamentally flawed idea that pornography is a form of speech. They'll call it sexuality of course. They'll dress it up a bit, as disney knows how to do like no other.

They simply are never going to be as angry with these type of art expressions:
IMG_20201017_135353.png

1599168305692.jpg

The value of a video like the couple of bill nye ones, is that when it's done poorly, the agenda is more visible, the machinery laid bare. Whereas in other works, like disney's huncheback of notre dame or frozen, the underlaying agenda's are covered up better and not as visible on the conscious level.

But as I said. They're simply not going to be as angry as they're going to be with people that want to curb the amount of abortions going on. We are evil, in their minds. We are contemptable, woman haters, unable to get even close to getting a woman. How many pages have been filled with that idea? It's like the "have sex" meme. What does it say about their world view that they think that is some sort of solution or rites of passage to have a seat at the table?

Oh they'll give a mild acknowledgement that this or that thing "isn't really to their taste" or "I'm not really for that", but it's not approached with any of the same vehemence.

If you want proof of that, you can look at the reaction to what I write here. It'll be ignored, or just dismissed without thought. We're touching something that is off limits. They'll feel the flaws of the excesses and whine about oversexualisation, but never dare look at the source, or tear at its roots.

Ah, I see you're into QAnon.
Just because there are some retards falling for some poor psyop, doesn't mean the underlying idea that existed before that doesn't have merit.

Just like you aren't discredited by the "penis in vagina is rape" feminists that are also staunch abortion defenders. You are credited and discredited according to your own ideas and their merit or lack thereof.
 
Let me get this straight:

You don't like how prostitutes have been used to justify access to abortion. (Seems 100% reasonable to me: I don't think Prostitutes should have kids)

But

"Satanic" media is a credible description for the pedophiles and predators out there? (Epstein, WeinStein, Any of the hundreds of accused politicians...) Child prostitutes are a real issue. Not adult prostitutes though I guess.

Also thanks for revealing how you just jump and make assumptions. I've written extensively on Epstein's black book and covered Pizzagate/QAnon in the past. You're just gonna assume that was an attack to simply say QAnon? LOL OK. Calm down.
 
Just don't understand why it's so hard to use birth control. It's never been easier to get it.

Also the only people I see doing rain dances at muh abortion rights rallies are privileged white women, not the poor women who can't afford kids (or apparently birth control) who we keep hearing so much about.
 
OK, this is the only take that matters.

The problem with abortion is the 'The Lie', not the murder of a child. There's plenty of good reasons to kill infants, say, if they turn out to be retards, downies, deformed, broken, etc. There's dozens of examples all across this site of creatures whose sad existence should have been ended 10 years prior and would have saved everyone involved a hell of a lot of suffering.

B-but muh christian values and dey have souls!?!?!?!?!

Slave Morality is designed to keep Slaves as Slaves, the Poor as Poor, etc etc. And besides, on the off chance the thing has a soul, souls are immortal. It will return to the Absolute and contribute to the cosmos a minimal amount of chaos before being sent back out again. It is literally better if you kill them.

Again, the problem is The Lie, that it is not a baby, that it is a fetus or a "clump of cells" which could be used to describe literally anything organic. So you have fleets of poor dumb girls getting tricked into thinking what they're doing is fine and 5-10 years down the road you see them pile into the nearest Churh realizing what they've done and begging for some kind of forgiveness or retribution. Which is an appropriate reaction.

See, the evil whores who get off on this stuff will find a way, coat-hanger, stair-case para-gliding, whatever. It's the same thing with guns - a criminal will always find a way. You can't change or account for that so it's beside the point.

Kill the fuckers if they're broken, mixed, a minority or if you just don't want one right now. But don't lie about it. And certainly don't set-up eugenic centers outside of black neighborhoods for fucks sake.

Your welcome for my take.
 
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"Satanic" media is a credible description for the pedophiles and predators out there? (Epstein, WeinStein, Any of the hundreds of accused politicians...)
Yes? Are you saying it isn't?
Child prostitutes are a real issue. Not adult prostitutes though I guess.
Adults are cognizant and responsible and if they fuck their lives up it's their fault.
I have no sympathy for whores. The fact that they fucked their own lives up isn't my problem.
Also thanks for revealing how you just jump and make assumptions. I've written extensively on Epstein's black book and covered Pizzagate/QAnon in the past. You're just gonna assume that was an attack to simply say QAnon? LOL OK. Calm down.
So you're admitting it was a bad faith quip, mocking something you agree with? Why?
The problem with abortion is the 'The Lie', not the murder of a child. There's plenty of good reasons to kill infants, say, if they turn out to be retards, downies, deformed, broken, etc. There's dozens of examples all across this site of creatures whose sad existence should have been ended 10 years prior and would have saved everyone involved a hell of a lot of suffering.
No.
B-but muh christian values and dey have souls!?!?!?!?!
They have rights.
Slave Morality is designed to keep Slaves as Slaves, the Poor as Poor, etc etc. And besides, on the off chance the thing has a soul, souls are immortal. It will return to the Absolute and contribute to the cosmos a minimal amount of chaos before being sent back out again. It is literally better if you kill them.
It is immoral. Full stop.
Again, the problem is The Lie, that it is not a baby, that it is a fetus or a "clump of cells" which could be used to describe literally anything organic. So you have fleets of poor dumb girls getting tricked into thinking what they're doing is fine and 5-10 years down the road you see them pile into the nearest Churh realizing what they've done and begging for some kind of forgiveness or retribution. Which is an appropriate reaction.
That is a problem, but the fundamental problem is that they murdered someone. That's what they are reacting to.
See, the evil whores who get off on this stuff will find a way, coat-hanger, stair-case para-gliding, whatever. It's the same thing with guns - a criminal will always find a way. You can't change or account for that so it's beside the point.
I agree. It's beside the point. So why are you saying it and wasting our time?
Kill the fuckers if they're broken, mixed, a minority or if you just don't want one right now.
That is immoral. You are an evil person.
Your welcome for my take.
Your take is shit and you probably don't even believe it.
 
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Are you actually saying she should murder an innocent child who has not harmed her in any way, purely out of her own convenience?
I notice you replied with snarky nonsense, while ignoring these substantive arguments I made against you:

The only innocent child in this situation is the 12 year old rape victim. But thanks for finally confirming that you like it when children suffer.

And the rest of your arguments are too autistic to even waste oxygen over because they're so repetitive. I and many others have already argued with you over your tired points.

Just don't understand why it's so hard to use birth control. It's never been easier to get it.

No such thing as 100% effective birth control.
 
The only innocent child in this situation is the 12 year old rape victim. But thanks for finally confirming that you like it when children suffer.

And the rest of your arguments are too autistic to even waste oxygen over because they're so repetitive. I and many others have already argued with you over your tired points.
This is an adjustment of unhealthy social contrasts, and I feel confident that my endeavours to end abortion and institute national welfare will meet with the unanimous support of all loyal citizens of this country and of the allied Governments, and that they will not dissociate themselves from us to form separate factions of their own. I also deem it imperative to continue our national and social progress in the paths of legality and to offer firm resistance to all tendencies the object or effect of which is to subvert the order of the state.
 
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