The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Lemmingwise]

She still should've aborted me as an embryo though.

Look this question is gonna sound rough, particularly in a contentious discussion like this. I want to stress it comes from a warm place of wanting to understand, as well as a drive for what new insight it might offer you or me if I ask this question.

Finally I stress that it is NOT a suggestion and that there are always supportive people ready if you would consider it.

Here it comes. If you believe you should have been aborted, why didn't you kill yourself? What made life worth it?

And then if it is worth living, how can you say you should have been aborted?

Hey man, at least they can't complain now about me edgyposting about killing babies when this dude admits he would run one over with a trolley

Thats a pretty dishonest use of what a trolly question is.

 

[Freya]

Gotta love it when conservative males turn into bleeding hearts when it comes to abortion

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I have considered ethics. It's unethical to force a woman to be an incubator.

Yet another person who uses words while not knowing what they mean. When woman chooses to have sex, she chooses to put her life in her own hands and run the risk of getting pregnant. Nothing is forced on her.

You were expressly told that it isn't under the legal definition. Facts over feels.

And I've already explained that the legal definition is irrelevant to the moral question. I know this thread is moving fast, but try to keep up.

You're an actual monster.

And you're engaging in ad hominem. Grow up. Its a pointless philosophical exercise anyway, which is why no one really uses the trolley car analogy for serious discussion.

 

[Android raptor]

Look this question is gonna sound rough, particularly in a contentious discussion like this. I want to stress it comes from a warm place of wanting to understand, as well as a drive for what new insight it might offer you or me if I ask this question.

Finally I stress that it is NOT a suggestion and that there are always supportive people ready if you would consider it.

Here it comes. If you believe you should have been aborted, why didn't you kill yourself? What made life worth it?

And then if it is worth living, how can you say you should have been aborted?

I have tried. My responsibilities towards my animals and friends are why I'm alive, also so my mom can't use my death to get narcissistic supply. That's it.

But if I could trade all the bullshit I've been through to have just never existed in the first place? Shit yeah. Like I said, my mom having kids was a decision of pure selfishness. I don't know if she's ever had any abortions, but if she has it's the only selfless thing she's ever done.

Bringing a kid into the world you can't properly care for is selfishness. Abortion is often the kindest, most selfless decision you can make.

Gotta love it when conservative males turn into bleeding hearts when it comes to abortion

It's wild because I see the shit they post in other threads, these are the same kinds of dudes cheering when a boat full of migrants overturns in A&H and making other edgy-ass posts. Yet when it's an embryo that's in the body of someone who doesn't want it there, all of a sudden it's "nooooo not the heckin' embryorinos! Life is precious! Abortion is murder and murder is wrong!!1!". Like dude, I saw you cheering about actual murder in another thread.

Perhaps someday science will allow them to gestate the unwanted embryos they care so much about.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

So the mouth is an erogenous zone if someone enjoys giving oral sex, but the anus isn't an erogenous zone even if someone enjoys anal sex?

Stop being obtuse. Neither are erogenous zones on their own merits. And anuses aren't prostates.

This might come as a shock, but you don't have to be gay to enjoy prostate stimulation.

Women are stimulated well enough in heterosexual intercourse, as are the men that penetrate them-- prostate stimulation is all but irrelevant to heterosexuals but very relevant to bottoms who take either oral or anal penetration.

If you haven't tried it, how would you know it isn't pleasurable?

I'm taking your word for it for the sake of argument-- I don't even believe the pleasure to be universal given all the issues inherent to anal sex.

You want to force women to go through pregnancy and childbirth

I just don't want dead babies. Seemingly, you wouldn't understand that because you wish you were killed in the womb yourself.

which isn't pleasurable and can literally kill you.

At a rate of 2% in the developed world... maybe? And I seriously can't comprehend why we're having a discussion where you equate recreational sex and gestation.

While we don't have prostates, there are still plenty of women who enjoy anal sex (I know a few!).

They're all lying to you, and they're all lying to their boyfriends that they're desperately trying to keep from leaving them for Stacy down the street.

The guy who's asking for her to enact this kind of labor likes it because it makes him feel bigger. The girl either grits her teeth for the sake of her love/connection (if she's broken and is too accustomed to making connections with other people through sex) or constructs a narrative from the experience from which she can derive sexual arousal. Functionally, it has to feel like crapping and reverse-crapping for several minutes. That kind of consistent movement for an extended period of time over several occasions leaves one liable to developing hemorrhoids. And as already stated, the anus isn't an erogenous zone without the formation of a paraphilic narrative.

As I mentioned my mom revoked her consent to caring for her kids by literally dropping us off on our dads doorstep, which was fine by me as long as I didn't have to deal with her shitty ass anymore.

You're dodging my question by exposing your power level.

She still should've aborted me as an embryo though.

If you actually thought that, you would have already killed yourself. Stop bullshitting me.

You were expressly told that it isn't under the legal definition.

And slavery used to be legal.

You might say the same about male nipples and you can give the same alternate explanation: that they're vestigial bodyparts as a result of males and females starting from the same blueprint before it diverges.

---

I've given your question plenty of thought and here is my answer:
In a trolly situation with a newborn baby on one side and 100 embryo's on the other and no further information, I would direct the trolly over the embryo's instinctually (if I had less than say 15 sec to decide) and I'd direct it over the newborn if I did have a chance to think about it.

There are many factors that could influence my choice. If the embryos were certain to not be implanted for example, because they have no future if they won't.

I seriously don't know why you or anyone is entertaining this question. @Android raptor et al are trying to use your stated decision as proof of how you appraise human lives according to their developmental stage. Of course, the trolley problem is the worst way to ascertain this because you're forced to make a decision to kill one party of people anyways, regardless of whether you consider them of equal worth. You lose before you start.

Probably, I'm actually kind of impressed he even knows what a clitoris is even though he's still pretty clueless about the purpose (that thing has more nerve endings than dicks do, shit ain't just vestigial).

This is a nonsensical mangling of what I wrote.

You outright stated the purpose of the clitoris before there was any reason for me to talk about it at all, and any mentally present adult would know what it is.

You wished to use the function of the clitoris as proof that sex isn't just about procreation (something I never argued). But because you never actually proffer a narrative for the evolution of the clitoris, someone else could just as well argue that the clitoris is vestigial (the amount of nerve endings a body structure has has nothing to do with its vestigiality).

 

[Lemmingwise]

I seriously don't know why you or anyone is entertaining this question. @Android raptor et al are trying to use your stated decision as proof of how you appraise human lives according to their developmental stage. Of course, the trolley problem is the worst way to ascertain this because you're forced to make a decision to kill one party of people anyways, regardless of whether you consider them of equal worth. You lose before you start.

Because I believe in asking questions and answering questions. If the answer is then used dishonestly, I'll point it out.

I believe that refusing to engage in mutual Q&A is how you lose before you start.

They're all lying to you, and they're all lying to their boyfriends that they're desperately trying to keep from leaving them for Stacy down the street.

Wrong. These women may exist, but women also exist that like it for its own sake.

 

[Thotticus]

Wait I didn't have an orgasm during anal sex? Thank God some dude on the internet is here to tell me I made it up in my mind

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Because I believe in asking questions and answering questions. If the answer is then used dishonestly, I'll point it out.

But you're answering a trick question...

Wrong. These women may exist, but women also exist that like it for its own sake.

It just reads as mechanically impossible to genuinely enjoy anal sex in a way analogous to vaginal sex, especially without the incidental "benefit" of prostate stimulation.

Wait I didn't have an orgasm during anal sex? Thank God some dude on the internet is here to tell me I made it up in my mind

Am I supposed to not notice the careful wording of "orgasm during anal sex" instead of the actually valuable "orgasm by anal sex"?

 

[Android raptor]

They're all lying to you, and they're all lying to their boyfriends that they're desperately trying to keep from leaving them for Stacy down the street.

The guy who's asking for her to enact this kind of labor likes it because it makes him feel bigger. The girl either grits her teeth for the sake of her love/connection (if she's broken and is too accustomed to making connections with other people through sex) or constructs a narrative from the experience from which she can derive sexual arousal. Functionally, it has to feel like crapping and reverse-crapping for several minutes. That kind of consistent movement for an extended period of time over several occasions leaves one liable to developing hemorrhoids. And as already stated, the anus isn't an erogenous zone without the formation of a paraphilic narrative.
[/I]).

Really now, because one of the women I know who likes it found out completely by accident. Like neither party was intending for it to go there and it was about to be removed when she was like wait this actually feels good.

You wonder why we keep calling you an incel.

Anyway hope you get to experience surprise butt stuff if you ever get your dick sucked, sounds like it might be something you could benefit from.

Also fetuses aren't people, forced pregnancy is a human rights violation, abortion is currently legal in the US and I will do everything I can to keep it that way (and move elsewhere if that changes because fuck that shit).

 

[Lemmingwise]

But you're answering a trick question...

I thought it was a good question. Both difficult and thoughtful.

It just reads as mechanically impossible to genuinely enjoy anal sex in a way analogous to vaginal sex, especially without the incidental "benefit" of prostate stimulation

I can only speak from experience about the women who tried to convince me to do it, where I struggle to see what alternative motive there was than seeking enjoyment.

 

[Android raptor]

Let me just say that @Zero Day Defense claiming women can't enjoy buttsex and only tolerate it to keep their boyfriends from cheating on them with Stacies was a magical thing to witness, and I'm glad I got to see it.

 

[Thotticus]

Am I supposed to not notice the careful wording of "orgasm during anal sex" instead of the expected "orgasm by anal sex"?

Nah, I'm not here to be obtuse. Anal sex stimulates nerves in the wall between the anus and the vagina.
On point though, I won't pretend that this is the norm for most women because most women can't experience orgasm from vaginal penetration alone, I am lucky in being able to get off by penetration.

Women are stimulated well enough in heterosexual intercourse, as are the men that penetrate them

Contrary to what you think you know about women, this is absolutely not accurate. Women who are satisfied by vaginal penetration exclusively are the minority.

Annnnd your assertions about the function of sex are really lacking, our sexual behaviours serve far more than the exchange of DNA. We use sex as a social behaviour, to bond, maintain social structures etc

 

[Lemmingwise]

that thing has more nerve endings than dicks do, shit ain't just vestigial

I've never found any scholarly research on number of nerve endings in sexual organs, only pseudoscientists such as "sex educators" use this.

As far as I can tell as a layman, is that number of nerve endings isn't a useful metric in the first place and are typically instead expressed and compared in such things as Meissner's index.

Feel free to correct me if anyone has better studied this.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

We use sex as a social behaviour, to bond, maintain social structures etc

While completely true, the foremost use of sex is still for procreative purposes. Pair bonding is, however, a very important secondary purpose.

As for anal sex, it pleasurable aspects are highly variable. Most get no real pleasure from it all, as you said. Some do, but don't like the preparation and cleanup involved. There are even a lot of gay men who don't like or partake in anal sex.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Really now, because one of the women I know who likes it found out completely by accident. Like neither party was intending for it to go there and it was about to be removed when she was like wait this actually feels good.

I didn't realize you were into voyeurism. I'm learning more about you than I ever thought I would... or needed to, frankly.

You wonder why we keep calling you an incel.

Because you don't know what that term means?
Because your only assets are those that relate to your sexual organs?
Because your brain is sex-addled?

Anyway hope you get to experience surprise butt stuff if you ever get your dick sucked, sounds like it might be something you could benefit from.

...what's your fascination with the state of my anus?

Also fetuses aren't people

Well, they're not dogs or plants. God only knows how much more sympathetic people would be to them if they were.

forced pregnancy is a human rights violation

You can't force someone to provide abortion services, allow abortion services in the borders of their country, or sell abortifacents.

abortion is currently legal in the US and I will do everything I can to keep it that way

It's baffling how after all this time, you still don't understand my position on abortion policy.

I can only speak from experience about the women who tried to convince me to do it, where I struggle to see what alternative motive there was than seeking enjoyment.

I've experienced women who operate incoherently, such that they continually insist no sex until marriage while continually pushing the envelope and asking me to push the envelope on intimate contact, knowing for a fact that she'll be tormented after the fact. I've experienced women who can clearly and deliberately build the foundation for an intimate relationship for months but scurry off after I respond positively to said efforts. I've... been aware of women who were unable to process the impropriety of having full on lesbian sex while not being able to live with themselves for barely blowing a guy, while still saying that they were straight and religious.

I accept that there are women beyond my comprehension for whatever reasons, and that said women are often beyond their own comprehension. I have no certain understanding of why, in your case, these people would ask you to participate in an activity that by most measures would be nothing but painful and leave lasting scars given the unsuitability of the anus for sexual intercourse, but as I've said before, I figure it to be the product of a paraphilic narrative rather than raw pleasure.

Let me just say that @Zero Day Defense claiming women can't enjoy buttsex and only tolerate it to keep their boyfriends from cheating on them with Stacies was a magical thing to witness, and I'm glad I got to see it.

I didn't realize I was invoking Stacies. I just picked a name at random.

Contrary to what you think you know about women, this is absolutely not accurate. Women who are satisfied by vaginal penetration exclusively are the minority.

And contrary to what you think you understand from my comments, I assume clitoral stimulation (incidental or otherwise) a part of heterosexual intercourse.

Annnnd your assertions about the function of sex are really lacking

No, they're not. You just can't process that I talked about sex primarily being concerned about reproduction, without excluding (but also without discussing, since it would be off-topic) its other purposes. I'm well aware of said other purposes, which is part of why-- even with my scarce luck-- I have no interest in having sex as I am.

 

[Android raptor]

Nah, I'm not here to be obtuse. Anal sex stimulates nerves in the wall between the anus and the vagina.
On point though, I won't pretend that this is the norm for most women because most women can't experience orgasm from vaginal penetration alone, I am lucky in being able to get off by penetration.

Contrary to what you think you know about women, this is absolutely not accurate. Women who are satisfied by vaginal penetration exclusively are the minority.

Annnnd your assertions about the function of sex are really lacking, our sexual behaviours serve far more than the exchange of DNA. We use sex as a social behaviour, to bond, maintain social structures etc

Yeah for me it's clitoral or GTFO. My (admittedly extremely limited) experiences with penetration have done nothing. I know women who are into it (including butt stuff, like I mentioned), but I've heard the same thing that most women can't actually get off on penetration alone.

Though if they do, more power to them, and may they not get pregnant when they don't want to be, and if they do may the be able to access abortion safely.

Like shit, one of our closest relatives fucks for pretty much everything. I think it's pretty safe to say sex serves purposes other than reproduction.

Shit, if reproduction was the only purpose of penis in vagina sex unwanted pregnancies wouldn't exist in the first place. People wouldn't be having it if they didn't want a pregnancy to happen. Yet here we are (and have been throughout all of history, since methods of preventing and aborting pregnancy are as old as civilization. Hell iirc shit thought to help with birth control and abortion are some of the earliest recorded medical texts).

I didn't realize you were into voyeurism. I'm learning more about you than I ever thought I would... or needed to, frankly.

I know you know nothing about women and have had only limited contact with them, but sometimes women will talk about sex with each other. Like just as casual conversation. That often includes discussing their experiences and tastes. Wild, I know.

Btw anuses are fine for sex as long as you use plenty of lube and take it slow. Though even anal sex with poor preparation is infinitely less painful than giving birth.

Seriously you're baffled by the idea that women might like buttsex because pain, yet think they should be forced to carry out pregnancies and give birth.

Also damn dude you really be turning chicks gay and everything.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

This thread is such a glorious trainwreck.

 

[ADHD]

This thread is such a glorious trainwreck.

It makes me almost sad for @Eris! to be missing out on it.

 

[Thotticus]

Btw anuses are fine for sex as long as you use plenty of lube and take it slow. Though even anal sex with poor preparation is infinitely less painful than giving birth.

For reals though. Giving birth left me with anal fissures. It was fucking horrendous and took months for me not to cry with pain every time I needed to take a dump.

Taking a dick in the ass is a little bit of an ache if you don't take it slowly enough for your sphincter to relax (Unless youre an absolute gumboot who goes in dry)

 

[Bunny Tracks]

For reals though. Giving birth left me with anal fissures. It was fucking horrendous and took months for me not to cry with pain every time I needed to take a dump.

Taking a dick in the ass is a little bit of an ache if you don't take it slowly enough for your sphincter to relax (Unless youre an absolute gumboot who goes in dry)

I really wish we had the TMI, and Islamic ratings back. At least for the Deep Thoughts board.