The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[CheezzyMach]

I never said it didn't happen, but as you said it wasn't acceptable or near as common. Similar to the concept of murder or rape happening while being unacceptable. Doesn't mean I think murders and rapes are going to stop and we all get to never face reality again. It shouldn't be easy or simple for everyone to be a virtuous person if the virtues are truly exemplary.

It was common enough in China that the government had to say "don't do this".

Like Android Raptor said infanticide in Europe only went down once contraceptives and abortion became more widespread and socially acceptable.

But for some reason "family values" Republicans are violently opposed to not only abortion but Sex Ed in general.

 

[Cuck Shack]

I understand that. Except societies have usually been deemed degenerate and godless throughout history. Since we're discussing how different societies specifically valued the lives of children/fetuses, in societies "enlightened" with Christendom (personally I think this is more a genetic factor than anything but Christianity and native European culture is hopelessly intertwined at this point) children had virtually always been valued and held in high esteem and the idea of infanticide was commonly looked down upon. So I don't see how it's necessarily hypocrisy or incorrect for Christians/Europeans specifically to criticize those who do not hold the same values which they have in fact upheld for centuries in so far as what's culturally and morally acceptable (with respect to the idea of abortion/child killing).

Yes, some cultures are more barbaric and amoral than others. Most reasonable people would agree. With that said, Catholic Ireland had a serious problem with female infanticide in the 1800's. It took the church until the early 1900's to successfully deal with it. Medieval Christians had a slight infanticide problem. It was once believed to be common but historians now agree that it was rare. My point is that Christians weren't completely immune to paganistic nonsense that lead to infanticide such as the belief in witches and cursed babies.

I've gone off on a tangent, so I'll get back on track. If your argument against abortion is religious, then there's no point in arguing. You believe it's a sin and that's that. The people arguing for it bring up bodily autonomy, fetal development, and history. It's like you're trying to persuade them that orange is an ugly color and they're trying to persuade you that it's the best tasting fruit. Neither of you will ever convince each other.

By the way Cheezzy, thanks for not lumping all Republicans in with those ones. Most are moderates who want sex ed but also don't want the USA to turn into Venezuela.

 

[Android raptor]

Shit, Catholic Ireland had an infantcide problem well into the 20th century when you get into mother and baby homes.

We'll probably never know just how much infanticide happened historically, especially since it was so commonly taboo to discuss and because the remains of a lot of the babies were probably quickly decomposed or scavanged by animals and whatnot. Personally I think it probably happened way more than just what's documented, people always fuck and when a majority of the population lives in extreme poverty a lot of them are probably just going to quietly dispose of their oops babies instead of wasting what little resources they have on an unwanted kid.

As much as shit sucks today, I think overall it's still way better than even 100 years ago especially on the unwanted pregnancy front.

 

[The High Prophet of Truth]

But for some reason "family values" Republicans are violently opposed to not only abortion but Sex Ed in general.

Yeah, imagine doing it for religious values when you can do it to make people suffer.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

Sentience is the capacity to feel and have awareness. Even the youngest newborns are sentient. They get agitated, they get hungry, they feel pain.

And babies in the womb can feel pain and are otherwise sentient at 27 weeks, if not earlier.

Even today fundies treat their kids like garbage, I've talked a lot about how everyone I've ever met who had fundie parents was abused in some way. A lot them openly brag about physically abusing their kids especially, probably because the bible encourages it.

”the other side does bad stuff” does not excuse you killing babies.

 

[Android raptor]

And babies in the womb can feel pain and are otherwise sentient at 27 weeks, if not earlier.

”the other side does bad stuff” does not excuse you killing babies.

1. Lol wikipedia 2. If you're aborting at 27 weeks chances are you wanted that pregnancy and got a devastating diagnosis. Plus abortion that late isnt legal in a lot of places anyway (though I think it should be)

Embryos most certainly cannot feel pain or anything, they're extremely simple little globs of not much of anything.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

though I think it should be

You think it should be legal to kill pain-capable babies?

 

[Android raptor]

You think it should be legal to kill pain-capable babies?

You mean I think late term abortion should be legal everywhere? Yeah, because poor women shouldn't be forced to carry a fetus that's incompatible with life to term just because they cant afford to fly across the country and spend 10,000+ dollars out of pocket.

Plus a lot of the fucked up complete potato fetuses will never be able to feel pain or have any level of conciousness even if they aren't aborted. Anencephaly and the severe ends of holoprosencephaly are just two examples.

Also even if a fetus is super far along and capable of feeling pain aborting is usually way more humane and way less painful than letting them die slowly of whatever is wrong with them.

I think it was Tard Baby where someone put it that FUBAR fetuses are dying from the moment they were conceived and aborting them is just going ahead and finishing what what inevitable. A lot of fucked up fetuses end up being aborted spontaneously by the body anyway, it's just sometimes that doesn't happen and you have to use modern medicine.

 

[Witthel]

Pretty sure providing abortion and birth control on demand won't magically stop female babies from getting killed in places like India.

But hey, better dead than alive and unwanted, even if it's over their gender, right?

 

[Muh Vagina]

And babies in the womb can feel pain and are otherwise sentient at 27 weeks, if not earlier.

Fetuses are not sentient until they exit the womb. And no woman is getting an abortion at 27 weeks. At that point, they induce labor because the baby isn't going to survive and allow it to pass peacefully.

 

[rocknrollmartian]

And no woman is getting an abortion at 27 weeks. At that point, they induce labor because the baby isn't going to survive and allow it to pass peacefully.

Why do you believe that, and why do you have the chutzpah to say so with such certainty? Third-trimester abortions are clearly not the norm, but they definitely happen. Dr. Hern in Colorado will perform an abortion at any point in a pregnancy for any reason, no fetal anomaly or urgent health concern needed. Also, are you familiar with Doe v. Bolton and its expansive definition of "health"?

From The Washington Post:

From the Boulder Daily Camera:

"Health" can mean anything:


Man, the pro-abortion propaganda machine has really done its job. It's stunning.

 

[Android raptor]

Lol you really think a woman that would blow an absolute fat stack of cash to have a late term abortion for shits and giggles is the kind of person that should be raising a kid? That shit isn't even remotely easy to get. Once you get past a certain point there are like, 2 doctors in the US that perform abortions that late. And you stand a very real chance of getting murdered by a terrorist in the process.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

And you stand a very real chance of getting murdered by a terrorist in the process.

Out of curiosity, when was the last pro-life terror attack?

 

[Android raptor]

Out of curiosity, when was the last pro-life terror attack?

I mean, clinics get firebombed and shot at constantly. Pretty sure I heard about one only last year that got moltovs or something thrown at it bad enough it had to close down for repairs. Really fucked up especially in a pandemic.

In terms of attacks that kill people, I think it was 2015 when a guy shot up a Planned Parenthood in Colorado and murdered like 4 or 5 people. Though something might have happened since then idk.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

I think it was 2015 when a guy shot up a Planned Parenthood in Colorado and murdered like 4 or 5 people.

Interesting. Just the other day a Muslim rammed his car into the barriers at the Capitol and killed a cop, but I don't see you talking about that.

 

[Android raptor]

Interesting. Just the other day a Muslim rammed his car into the barriers at the Capitol and killed a cop, but I don't see you talking about that.

Yeah because this is the abortion sperging thread. Unless he did it because he was butthurt about abortion it's not really relevant

As much as Islamic extremists hate women at least in the US it doesn't seem like they get up to much anti-abortion terrorism. It seems like that's solidly the domain of their Christian equivalent.

 

[LargeChoonger]

The western definition of freedom has come to mean choosing the path of least resistance at every opportunity. "Freedom" stops when something gets difficult or cuts into your funko pop and Marvel watching time. In reality, men and women have sex-specific roles; more social on the male side and more biological on the female side. And sometimes those roles come with difficult responsibilities. A man might have to endure some days of backbreaking manual labor to get important shit done and a woman may have to alter her schedule for some time to care for her body and/or child. Abortion has been rapidly gaining traction as a contraceptive and whim decision, and the only way it's justified is through dehumanization of the fetus. Even on the side of those who openly hate children and get pleasure out of abortions, they still avoid humanizing the fetus at all costs. Excuses such as rape and terminal disability are a moot point due to their extreme rarity (sweeping societal reform would be needed to address either of those issues). Ultimately, abortion defenders want freedom from consequences

 

[turdburger]

Abortion is destroying a fetus... except when it isn't.

A lot of women over a certain age seem to have a story about how they lost a pregnancy or a child. I've known one woman who believed she was pregnant and went for a scan that showed a sack of amniotic fluid inside her and no fetus. I knew another woman who went for her scan and found out her fetus was dead. Both of them ended up being admitted to hospital and having an abortion, and that was the wording on the consent papers they signed. Both of them had deliberately become pregnant and both of them grieved for the loss. The first one I think was told she would go back to normal with enough time, but wanted it removed so she could try to get pregnant sooner. The second one I guess it was necessary to stop it decomposing in her.

Forreal tho, humans drew the short end of the stick offspring wise. Not only did with not get precocial offspring that's at least fairly independent at birth, but our offspring are ugly melting potato things that shriek like dying cats and projectile shoot disgusting bodily fluids constantly. I feel like if I was some prehistoric person with no knowledge of science or anything and something like that popped out of me I'd instinctively chuck it off the nearest cliff.

Friend of mine has sheep. This time of year they have lambs. The lambs are pretty cute and always seem happy and curious little buggers running around and looking at things. The lambs go to the mother sheep and head butt her in the udders and nurse from her while she carries on grazing.

Every baby I've encountered is a fucking miserable bastard and shows no interest in anything. Its mother always loves it, but if you've ever seen a mother with a young baby, it never gets on with it. It just sprawls there and she has to sit on a chair and force it into position using both hands and her knees. Then her grip slips or it loses suction or it vomits on her and her tits fall out of her shirt and it starts screaming. It's like humans had to evolve language as they would never have survived if mothers didn't pass on the complicated knowledge to their daughters of how to feed their spawn.

 

[Android raptor]

The western definition of freedom has come to mean choosing the path of least resistance at every opportunity. "Freedom" stops when something gets difficult or cuts into your funko pop and Marvel watching time. In reality, men and women have sex-specific roles; more social on the male side and more biological on the female side. And sometimes those roles come with difficult responsibilities. A man might have to endure some days of backbreaking manual labor to get important shit done and a woman may have to alter her schedule for some time to care for her body and/or child. Abortion has been rapidly gaining traction as a contraceptive and whim decision, and the only way it's justified is through dehumanization of the fetus. Even on the side of those who openly hate children and get pleasure out of abortions, they still avoid humanizing the fetus at all costs. Excuses such as rape and terminal disability are a moot point due to their extreme rarity (sweeping societal reform would be needed to address either of those issues). Ultimately, abortion defenders want freedom from consequences

Having to pay for an abortion is a consequence. Also no one is using them as contraception, that would be one fucking expensive, inconvenient form of contraception.

Also fetuses aren't people. They don't deserve to be humanized.

Every baby I've encountered is a fucking miserable bastard and shows no interest in anything. Its mother always loves it, but if you've ever seen a mother with a young baby, it never gets on with it. It just sprawls there and she has to sit on a chair and force it into position using both hands and her knees. Then her grip slips or it loses suction or it vomits on her and her tits fall out of her shirt and it starts screaming. It's like humans had to evolve language as they would never have survived if mothers didn't pass on the complicated knowledge to their daughters of how to feed their spawn.

Idk non-human primates somehow figure it out too. Though they also have cuter babies than humans who also get past the does nothing but scream and shit itself stage quicker.

I wonder if any prehistoric humans/closely related hominids ever popped out a baby, took one look at it, and were like "nah, fuck shit" and just left it there or yeeted it into a tree or whatever. I know modern humans do it plenty (and have done so for all of recorded history), but I wonder if even in the days of cavemen they were doing it (probably tbh).

Hell, even non-human animals do that sometimes. Outside of mammals that's the norm for a lot of them.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

LMAO Christcuck politicians in America get busted every other week paying a ho for sex and abortion.

So spare me the hypocritical Puritan moralfaggotery.

Haha Christians sin too so therefore Christianity bad and dumb! Stick to trying to justify child murder, you'll have marginally better results.