The Build Engine Thread - Or the DUKI NUKI Engine

[Pissmaster]

Next month will be the 10th anniversary of Duke Nukem Forever, the only game ever made that somehow felt rushed despite being the poster child for games that spent too long in development

 

[Belvedere]

I love Build engine based FPS games, Blood, Powerslave, Shadow Warrior. (Doom technically is idTech 1, not Build but it feels like splitting hairs making that distinction) All that said Duke Nukem 3D feels like the least fun of the games of that era. I revisit Blood and Doom frequently, DN3D not so much. Maybe for me it is the level and enemy designs that make it not as appealing as the rest of the pack.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

Dude, it's vidya - don't stress out about it and just get whichever one you want without worrying about "loyalty" or anything like that.

Although you did just confess to software piracy, so I'm obligated to post this.

View attachment 2148103

Eh screw it not supporting randy he can jerk off to his magic card porn for all I care

 

[Pissmaster]

I love Build engine based FPS games, Blood, Powerslave, Shadow Warrior. (Doom technically is idTech 1, not Build but it feels like splitting hairs making that distinction) All that said Duke Nukem 3D feels like the least fun of the games of that era. I revisit Blood and Doom frequently, DN3D not so much. Maybe for me it is the level and enemy designs that make it not as appealing as the rest of the pack.

tbh Duke 3D is kind of a mediocre-shitty game with a very strong first level and a very charismatic protagonist. It's rich in meme value, but the levels in the first episode after Hollywood Holocaust are pretty dull and confusing.

Though I did enjoy the bit of Duke Caribbean that I tried

 

[byuu]

I love Build engine based FPS games, Blood, Powerslave, Shadow Warrior. (Doom technically is idTech 1, not Build but it feels like splitting hairs making that distinction) All that said Duke Nukem 3D feels like the least fun of the games of that era. I revisit Blood and Doom frequently, DN3D not so much. Maybe for me it is the level and enemy designs that make it not as appealing as the rest of the pack.

IMHO where Duke's gameplay shines the most is weapon design. Every weapon (ignoring the Expander from Atomic) including the starter pistol is satisfying to use and all have their use.
I can't say the same about Doom.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

IMHO where Duke's gameplay shines the most is weapon design. Every weapon (ignoring the Expander from Atomic) including the starter pistol is satisfying to use and all have their use.
I can't say the same about Doom.

Agree except for the shotgun seriously the design for that gun is awful it's literally a Mossberg (apparently from what I've read shotguns weren't even gonna be in the game it was only added because George brusouraad asked fans if they wanted a shotgun in the game and he put his Mossberg 500 in the game ) and to be fair aside from the pistol and the fists ( lmao who used that ) most of the weapons in doom were pretty satisfying to use wish the chaingun barrel's were longer like in doom 64

 

[big ups liquid richard]

The first and third episodes are really good. The awful alien ship (second episode) is so dull and such a slog.

Back then, it was typical to put all your best levels up front in the first episode and try to sell you the rest.

Duke 3D was an impressive feat at the time, but thats all the franchise really had going for it. Other games do what it tries to do much better, as the years rolled on.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

I love Build engine based FPS games, Blood, Powerslave, Shadow Warrior. (Doom technically is idTech 1, not Build but it feels like splitting hairs making that distinction) All that said Duke Nukem 3D feels like the least fun of the games of that era. I revisit Blood and Doom frequently, DN3D not so much. Maybe for me it is the level and enemy designs that make it not as appealing as the rest of the pack.

Was one of the reasons why the levels are confusing is because they had to cut down on the size of it that and the whole you can interact with everything aspect of it meaning bigger levels As a result

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

The first and third episodes are really good. The awful alien ship (second episode) is so dull and such a slog.

Back then, it was typical to put all your best levels up front in the first episode and try to sell you the rest.

Duke 3D was an impressive feat at the time, but thats all the franchise really had going for it. Other games do what it tries to do much better, as the years rolled on.

Honestly thinking about it yeah duke really hasnt aged well

 

[augment]

Back then, it was typical to put all your best levels up front in the first episode and try to sell you the rest.

Daikatana fucked that up marvellously.

 

[Gravemind]

Honestly thinking about it yeah duke really hasnt aged well

1/3 of the main game being dogshit isn't too bad, though. The Birth also runs the gamut from being fun at the start to being kinda bad at the end, so it balances out.

And as much as I really don't want to give the grease trap any credit, the new episode in the Randy-sanctioned port actually isn't too bad either, aside from the final boss being the biggest joke out of every enemy in the game.

All that to say I still find Duke 3D enjoyable whenever I go back to it every couple of years. Shadow Warrior and Blood up the ante with what the engine could do, and are better games as a result, but it's at the cost of smashing your dick in with a hammer with their difficulty. Duke, on the other hand, strikes just enough of a nice, casual balance that it's an easily surmountable challenge even on the highest difficulty.

 

[The Penultimate Warrior]

Duke 3d does have the sentry drones though, which are some of the worst enemies ever put into an FPS game.

DNF may have been completely mediocre, if not perhaps the worst game ever that it's normally labelled as, but at least we got Ion Fury, which feels like the true spiritual successor to DN3D

 

[Gravemind]

Duke 3d does have the sentry drones though, which are some of the worst enemies ever put into an FPS game.

At least you can bait them into killing themselves on doors while avoiding the splash damage from the explosion. Most of the time.

 

[ditto]

The killer feature in 1997 was the bundled level editor that wasn't shit.
So many hours in build.exe building and customizing levels. Way more than playing the actual game.

Duke 3d does have the sentry drones though, which are some of the worst enemies ever put into an FPS game.

Also hate the slimers. Although it's very satisfying to wipe out a bunch of eggs at once with a pipebomb.
Octobrain is the coolest imho.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

1/3 of the main game being dogshit isn't too bad, though. The Birth also runs the gamut from being fun at the start to being kinda bad at the end, so it balances out.

And as much as I really don't want to give the grease trap any credit, the new episode in the Randy-sanctioned port actually isn't too bad either, aside from the final boss being the biggest joke out of every enemy in the game.

All that to say I still find Duke 3D enjoyable whenever I go back to it every couple of years. Shadow Warrior and Blood up the ante with what the engine could do, and are better games as a result, but it's at the cost of smashing your dick in with a hammer with their difficulty. Duke, on the other hand, strikes just enough of a nice, casual balance that it's an easily surmountable challenge even on the highest difficulty.

Irrc doesnt bloodgdx have a feature where you can tweak the amount of damage the enemies do to you so the diffculty arugment doesnt work

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

Kind of surprised that people are choosing DN3D as the worst Build engine game when Redneck Rampage exists. It had its moments but some of the levels were extremely annoying and the setting wears out its welcome pretty fast.

 

[Gravemind]

Irrc doesnt bloodgdx have a feature where you can tweak the amount of damage the enemies do to you so the diffculty arugment doesnt work

One very specific sourceport having that as a gameplay altering option doesn't make the base game any less dick-smashingly hard on most difficulties, for one. You could make the same argument for "just play on Pink on the Inside lol" or "just use the custom difficulty settings in Fresh Supply" and it wouldn't change the fact that playing on Lightly Broiled or higher is still gonna give you a rougher time than Duke on Come Get Some/Damn I'm Good.

Second, I'm not saying that Blood isn't an enjoyable and great game because of its difficulty. I love Blood. I'm just acknowledging that it has a certain level of intensity to the base gameplay that I still have never experienced playing Duke on its highest difficulties, thus making Duke a more laidback, easier to enjoy game.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

One very specific sourceport having that as a gameplay altering option doesn't make the base game any less dick-smashingly hard on most difficulties, for one. You could make the same argument for "just play on Pink on the Inside lol" or "just use the custom difficulty settings in Fresh Supply" and it wouldn't change the fact that playing on Lightly Broiled or higher is still gonna give you a rougher time than Duke on Come Get Some/Damn I'm Good.

Second, I'm not saying that Blood isn't an enjoyable and great game because of its difficulty. I love Blood. I'm just acknowledging that it has a certain level of intensity to the base gameplay that I still have never experienced playing Duke on its highest difficulties, thus making Duke a more laidback, easier to enjoy game.

From what ive read about the discussion about blood vs duke 3d is that duke doesnt feel as strategic as blood or quake and not to mention the 1930s aesthetic thats aged much better than duke since the city look of duke was sure insane back in 1996 problem is the city aesthetic hasnt aged well or the more lovecraftian look of quake

 

[Gravemind]

From what ive read about the discussion about blood vs duke 3d is that duke doesnt feel as strategic as blood or quake and not to mention the 1930s aesthetic thats aged much better than duke since the city look of duke was sure insane back in 1996 problem is the city aesthetic hasnt aged well or the more lovecraftian look of quake

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything that I've said. They're both good games. Duke is just easier to play than Blood is, and it seems to me that a decent number of critics conflate the skill floor of Duke versus Blood as being exemplary of Duke being a "bad game" compared to Blood. (Personally, I still love Duke's aesthetic as well, being a 90s kid who grew up playing it. Kind of hoping Postal 2 hits that same vibe for me whenever I get around to it.)

That, or people just have different tastes, but they're acting all "MY TASTE IS SUPERIOR AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE OBJECTIVELY WRONG" as is usually the case in the boomer shooter subcommunity.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything that I've said. They're both good games. Duke is just easier to play than Blood is, and it seems to me that a decent number of critics conflate the skill floor of Duke versus Blood as being exemplary of Duke being a "bad game" compared to Blood. (Personally, I still love Duke's aesthetic as well, being a 90s kid who grew up playing it. Kind of hoping Postal 2 hits that same vibe for me whenever I get around to it.)

That, or people just have different tastes, but they're acting all "MY TASTE IS SUPERIOR AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE OBJECTIVELY WRONG" as is usually the case in the boomer shooter subcommunity.

In regards to the diffculty yeah i agree that the base game of blood is pretty diffcult but doesnt duke 3d fourth diffculty setting have enemies corpses fucking reawaken after you killed them unless you blow them up and one arugment ive read is that dukes level and enemy design is bad compared to blood