The Elder Scrolls

[Fathomless Eminence]

If you're retarded and don't know how to block, position or time your attacks, sure. But since you apparently can't get through an encounter without chugging potions, abusing terrain, or abusing alchemy loops I think that answers that. Like I cannot express how much of a skill issue it is to find TES melee any kind of suffering. It's so easy.

I was being facetious. I've played plenty of melee playthroughs. Being a Nord 2H dragonborn warms my Aryan sovl. Be real though and compare that to melee combat in other fantasy games like Dark Souls and you know it doesn't even compare which is fine, but don't pretend like TES melee is engaging. At least in Daggerfall/Morrowind you could move your mouse to swing and pull of different moves and that was vaguely amusing. In Skyrim it's just click click click. If I'm gonna be clicking I'm choosing to incinerate.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

Speaking of Skyrim combat, I am reminded of a few things that really took me out of the game in vanilla: One is the complete devaluation of fatigue. It basically only effects how often you can sprint or power attack, and even if you manage to drain an NPC's effectively unlimited stamina pool there are no knock outs in Skyrim, but the thing that really made me think "fuck this game" near release is this: You may notice there's no underwater combat in Skyrim, but that didn't piss me off nearly as much as learning NPCs can't even drown while attempting to abuse it.

 

[Squawking Macaw]

One is the complete devaluation of fatigue. It basically only effects how often you can sprint or power attack, and even if you manage to drain an NPC's effectively unlimited stamina pool there are no knock outs in Skyrim

It's amusing how you only need one point of stamina to use power attacks in Skyrim because that makes the humble vegetable soup the most overpowered item for melee warriors. It restores 1 point of stamina per second for 12 minutes, letting you spam power attacks with impunity, the only downside is that your character gets stuck playing the out of breath sound effect until you use a shout.

 

[StacticShock]

I think the setup and system resources you would likely need to run this just isn't worth it. I have a feeling it's slow as shit unless you're running it from another dedicated machine or rented server too.

i mean you can dust off your oldass computer to do it unless it's neolithic ages shit like DDR3 memories and shieet, reddit is unironically helpful in that regard to have a 2nd computer to run the damn tokens on but there's like extra power cost and that's just for a skyrim mod, although there are people that do VR shit with lovense too so it's not as crazy as it seems when you think about it...

 

[Soggy Floppa]

I think the setup and system resources you would likely need to run this just isn't worth it. I have a feeling it's slow as shit unless you're running it from another dedicated machine or rented server too.

I played with Mantella for a bit, running a 24b local model on a 3090 via koboldcpp with 8192 context to save VRAM, its surprisingly fast and the slowest part is the TTS generation, so there is still awkward silence. The issue is that once I open Skyrim (unmodded except for Mantella and the requirements) I cap out the full 24gb of VRAM. It's completely playable though and I wasn't expecting it to be so fast, but since replies are capped to two sentences at most and the context window is very small and supplimented by summaries instead of entire history, it doesn't really slow down over time. The model I used is a roleplay finetune of Mistral 24b called Cydonia, it surpisingly knows Elder Scrolls lore and locations pretty well, but it has trouble with separating the different games and when they take place, so if you talk about Morrowind stuff it doesn't talk about Morrowind in the 4th era, it talks about 3e. It does also slip into describing actions, which the mod is supposed to auto strip, but the LLMs work by looking at the chat history and copying the patterns, so if you get bad token RNG and it doesn't wrap descriptions in * then it will make the NPC say the actions.

It's surprisngly engaging, but I wish it had more understanding of the world and let you have NPCs trade or be aware of recent events. CHIM apparently has a system for that but from what I read its super turbo jank and forces you to use a WSL setup they ship instead of your own backend, and it doesn't even play audio through the game, so I haven't bothered to even try it.

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

The model I used is a roleplay finetune of Mistral 24b called Cydonia,

How do you keep your Cydonia from being horny 24/7? I tried it once and the DnD party I had all tried to fuck me within two messages unprompted.

 

[StacticShock]

I played with Mantella for a bit, running a 24b local model on a 3090 via koboldcpp with 8192 context to save VRAM, its surprisingly fast and the slowest part is the TTS generation, so there is still awkward silence. The issue is that once I open Skyrim (unmodded except for Mantella and the requirements) I cap out the full 24gb of VRAM. It's completely playable though and I wasn't expecting it to be so fast, but since replies are capped to two sentences at most and the context window is very small and supplimented by summaries instead of entire history, it doesn't really slow down over time. The model I used is a roleplay finetune of Mistral 24b called Cydonia, it surpisingly knows Elder Scrolls lore and locations pretty well, but it has trouble with separating the different games and when they take place, so if you talk about Morrowind stuff it doesn't talk about Morrowind in the 4th era, it talks about 3e. It does also slip into describing actions, which the mod is supposed to auto strip, but the LLMs work by looking at the chat history and copying the patterns, so if you get bad token RNG and it doesn't wrap descriptions in * then it will make the NPC say the actions.

mantella only has system requirements for fallout4 to be optimal but i guess it's interchangeable? there's also real-time npc lojics too and often recommend people going locally but i don't do tricks with no clankers so i can't tell which model is faster.

It's surprisngly engaging, but I wish it had more understanding of the world and let you have NPCs trade or be aware of recent events. CHIM apparently has a system for that but from what I read its super turbo jank and forces you to use a WSL setup they ship instead of your own backend, and it doesn't even play audio through the game, so I haven't bothered to even try it.

for that to happen it would need to be trained, especially on the preset characters from the setting and that means a database of sorts BUT there's always the fucking degenerates as @Mr. Racewar1488 pointed out.

 

[Soggy Floppa]

How do you keep your Cydonia from being horny 24/7? I tried it once and the DnD party I had all tried to fuck me within two messages unprompted.

idk? I was trying to screw with NPCs with it and it stayed in character pretty well and would argue with me and stuff, it never got horny. Maybe it just depends on the system prompt, and like all LLMs, the chat history

for that to happen it would need to be trained, especially on the preset characters from the setting and that means a database of sorts BUT there's always the fucking degenerates as @Mr. Racewar1488 pointed out.

larger models are better at actually following instructions, so you could likely go very far with the character descriptions mantella uses and then a prompt lore injection like CHIM says it uses. I've written a discord chatbot that uses lore injection when keywords are mentioned and it works pretty well, but that can only go so far when its a heavily censored LLM, which is where roleplay finetunes come in but as said above, those can get very horny fast.

I feel like you could have a log of game events and when a conversation is started that log is summarized or just sent in the prompt to the LLM. Manetella could also expand their key word system they use for aggro and following and opening of inventory to have the bot able to pay you, for if you complete a 'quest'. Really just improving it beyond a series of conversations with nothing known in between them

 

[StacticShock]

Maybe it just depends on the system prompt, and like all LLMs, the chat history

@Mr. Racewar1488 yous busted.

larger models are better at actually following instructions, so you could likely go very far with the character descriptions mantella uses and then a prompt lore injection like CHIM says it uses. I've written a discord chatbot that uses lore injection when keywords are mentioned and it works pretty well, but that can only go so far when its a heavily censored LLM, which is where roleplay finetunes come in but as said above, those can get very horny fast.

can these censorships be ignored if ran locally?

I feel like you could have a log of game events and when a conversation is started that log is summarized or just sent in the prompt to the LLM. Manetella could also expand their key word system they use for aggro and following and opening of inventory to have the bot able to pay you, for if you complete a 'quest'. Really just improving it beyond a series of conversations with nothing known in between them

well i don't know shit about clankers, that's why i said about database of sorts for the tokens so it can fish the keywords proper, which open sauce stuff can handle tranny report attacks? i know that github folds like origami to take down projects trannies can bombard as problematic and sharing it in here might be a bit iffy because server space since feederstein will take note, i looked at cydonia 24B and it's 47.2GB of data.

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

@Mr. Racewar1488 yous busted.

It's joever for me. I'll change my username to Mr. Gooner1488 now.

 

[Soggy Floppa]

can these censorships be ignored if ran locally?

The base models of all the LLMs people run locally are typically all censored and most are trained of synthesized datasets from the big name LLMs, so they exhibit the same censorship, but all the finetunes are done by normal people are are typically not censored, but they do occasionally slip into refusals that can loop forever based on the chat history having a refusal in it.

i looked at cydonia 24B and it's 47.2GB of data

Nobody runs the raw models, they are far too expensive to run for little to no gain, everybody running local models are running quantizations which trims the vectors down, this is lossy but for the most part you don't lose too much. I used a Q6_K_L which trims it down to 19gb so it fits in my 24gb of VRAM, you can absolutely go lower with a 24b but at a certain point the lobotomy sets in and it starts acting retarded.

that's why i said about database of sorts for the tokens so it can fish the keywords proper

lore injection is literally you check for keywords in the prompt sent, and if they exist you slot in a lore entry in plain text explaining that key word, no need for tokens or training or anything, the entire prompt is sent to the LLM for text completion. Sillytavern has a good writeup on their lore system. You could also vectorize all the lore which is some sort of magic thing where the distance between tokens is stored and it can infer and automatically look up relevant tokens, which is also nowhere near as large as a fully trained model, but I think a well put together lore book would work better and be less leaky.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Here some shit we all already know about.
And it's still infuriating.

 

[scathefire]

Here some shit we all already know about.
And it's still infuriating.

It’s preferable that they never try to remake Morrowind, that game is fine as-is and there’s no need to taint it with modern Bethesda’s grubby fingers. Really though, imagine “cringing” at the best game you’ve ever made.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Really though, imagine “cringing” at the best game you’ve ever made.

I see that mentality sometimes, it's sickening. These people lost their souls to the corporate demoralization machine and now they must denounce anything they made that doesn't tow whatever line their masters set.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

Here some shit we all already know about.
And it's still infuriating.

is that he wanted an interface-less game so ideally you just play the game.
Why? Ironically, this is the kind of thing you might expect to find in a hardcore "immersive sim" type game that doesn't even show your health bar, not a casualized RPG.

"We got rid of attributes in Skyrim and you know who complained? Almost nobody,"
I guess when you consider that the console babies who were introduced to the series in Skyrim vastly outnumber the people who started with earlier entries, he's right. But I complained, and so did hundreds of thousands if not millions of other people.

"You don't have to worry about where you are going to spend your points or how you are going to do this and do that. Just play the game. Let's get the game out of your way."
Moreover, "that's now a hallmark of the Elder Scrolls series because you play the character you want to play and you just get better at playing that character," he says.
What the hell does this even mean? If we think about it for a moment skills in TES essentially represent how practiced your character is in something, while attributes represent a spectrum of qualities that could be improved or that you might be inherently gifted with, but aren't something you can practice directly. So you get strong because you train with weapons, you get smarter because you educate yourself, you gain more endurance because you run around in heavy armor, ect. How does removing that 2nd dimension help me "play the character I want to play"? If anything, it limits my ability to do so. I know this isn't really applicable to any of the games in a practical sense, but let's say I have a character with high speech and low personality. You could think of him as a sort of smooth talking sleazy salesman. Nobody likes him, but his arguments always sound appealing. In contrast, you could have an autist who's totally inept at speaking to anyone, but he's got a high personality so people love him so much they're willing to hear him out. Ideas like this aren't possible in a 1-dimensional system. And as far as "you just get better at playing the character goes", this isn't dark souls, buddy. I've never felt like I had to" get good" at vanilla Skyrim. Combat boils down to stats and resources, which are things they also made an effort to trivialize by putting them in the player's favor.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

*Snip*

Here's another midwit take from him, in case you needed further confirmation that he's retarded.
"If Starfield was made by a different company, it would be universally praised!" Lol no, the only reason it was praised at all was because of Bethesdrone stockholm syndrome and rampant sunk cost fallacy.

 

[StacticShock]

the only reason it was praised at all was because of Bethesdrone stockholm syndrome and rampant sunk cost fallacy.

i mean, where are you seeing that because i am not seeing it outside very tight-knit consoletard bubbles.
everyone and their mothers are shitting on saarfield even with the star wars megamod

and there is a hint that jeetthesda learns or microshart learns, either way they are still silent about the remakes and starfield DLC you'd think they were visited by the don himself and told to shut up or wake up with the fishes.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

i mean, where are you seeing that because i am not seeing it outside very tight-knit consoletard bubbles.

There were tons of shills and Bethesda simps when the game first launched. I didn't forget. It took them a little while to see where the wind was blowing.

https://preservetube.com/watch?v=WWsmR_LhGtA

 

[Moral plague]

but the thing that really made me think "fuck this game" near release is this: You may notice there's no underwater combat in Skyrim, but that didn't piss me off nearly as much as learning NPCs can't even drown while attempting to abuse it.

I used to have a mod that made it possible to attack underwater and in mid-air, but an update broke it, and it never got updated. Still irritated.

I am level 50 in it with points in most of the nodes I have unlocked, and it still is quite poor. It's crazy how often I will end up running out of magicka potions and resort to my elven mace and armor, then absolutely wreck what I was fighting despite having a much lower 1 handed and armor skill with one point in them. I thought about just scrapping this character, but I decided I will cheese to destruction level 100 and see if that makes a difference first

No fortify destruction potions? More damage.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

i mean, where are you seeing that because i am not seeing it outside very tight-knit consoletard bubbles.
everyone and their mothers are shitting on saarfield even with the star wars megamod

Lol yeah, not even that modpack can save it. And yeah that's mostly who I meant, console(only)tards and Redditors in the dedicated Starfield subreddit once the clowning died down, but if you knew where to look they were out there, just not as loud as the people rightfully shitting on it.

and there is a hint that jeetthesda learns or microshart learns, either way they are still silent about the remakes and starfield DLC you'd think they were visited by the don himself and told to shut up or wake up with the fishes.

Not learned, never learned, they'll continue fucking up. They probably don't have anything planned yet because they barely make anything within a reasonable time. They're probably like 25% done with the next Elder Scrolls game, they're not going to remake anything before Oblivion because the same retards who bought the Oblivion remaster would probably be too retarded to figure out Morrowind or Daggerfall while actual MW and DF fans are grognards who will shun it (plus they already have OMW and DFU with mods so no point either way) so that's a wasted effort. If they wanted MW and Daggerfall to appeal to the drooling masses then they'd have to remake them almost entirely, especially DF so lol that ain't happening.
Only real chance they have is New Vegas, not sure they'll do NV since if there was ever a chance to capitalize on NV fans using the show, it would have been done already. They'd sure as shit would love to do Fo3 but are waiting for a chance to do something related to that specific entry in the show first to capitalize (heh) on the interest of Fo3. So no, they have nothing ready nor worth mentioning for the foreseeable future.

You may notice there's no underwater combat in Skyrim, but that didn't piss me off nearly as much as learning NPCs can't even drown while attempting to abuse it.

There's a lot more problems with Skyrim's combat that I honestly can take a day out just writing about, so I could forgive underwater combat being removed. NPCs not drowning is silly though. Matter of fact, anything water related is just nonexistent, there's no point in doing anything water related unless you want to start snatching up salmon roe, even with the fishing addon. And there are almost no mods that do anything related to these large bodies of water, I could count on only one hand.