The Elder Scrolls

[Mnutu]

I'm pretty sure when you roll the dice in a tabletop game time doesn't stop, because if it did people who play TTRPGs would be much less likely to be virgins.

What

 

[scathefire]

I wonder how Bethesda is going to un-fuck themselves from the corner they wrote themselves into with the Civil War plotline. They already did an ass-pull with the Warp in the West to explain Daggerfall's 5(?) mutually exclusive endings all canon. The Red Mountain exploded shortly after Morrowind, making none of that shit matter. Skyrim didn't need a plot device to explain away things that happened in Oblivion, because you had no choices that mattered in that game.

Assuming that they don't just ignore it, I think they're going to do a re-do of Red Mountain and have Snow Throat explode because you killed its heart, Paarthunax. It would also move along the storyline going on in the background, the Towers steadily getting destroyed/inert.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they picked a canon outcome for the war, but I know tons of people would be butthurt either way and based on what Besthesda has done in the past regarding differing player choice, it's always like "buhhh we don't know what happened" or something. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just that in this instance they've written themselves into a massive corner as you've said, and there's no easy way to leave it open-ended. Unless TES:VI ends up being a prequel, that could be one way to avoid answering the question of who won.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Personally I wouldn't mind if they picked a canon outcome for the war, but I know tons of people would be butthurt either way and based on what Besthesda has done in the past regarding differing player choice, it's always like "buhhh we don't know what happened" or something. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just that in this instance they've written themselves into a massive corner as you've said, and there's no easy way to leave it open-ended. Unless TES:VI ends up being a prequel, that could be one way to avoid answering the question of who won.

They can just have TES:VI take place during the events of Skyrim, on another country, like Hammerfell or Alinor. It could be concurrent with what's going on at the time, and you can hear something about Alduin or Ulfric doing something from some NPCs while another country has their own story in the meantime.

Or pull a KOTOR 2 and have the player decide who won the Skyrim Civil War or the Dawnguard vs. Volkihar vampires war through dialogue with NPCs. Just like how you can determine what sex Revan is and which side Revan chose in KOTOR 1 through an early dialogue with a character in KOTOR 2. Then such choices would have some minor impacts in gaming, like say, you can get Ulfric Stormcloak or General Tullius to help you later in the game or something, like how choosing whether or not Revan went light or dark can determine who leads the Republic forces against Darth Nihilus in the endgame of KOTOR 2.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Having TES VI take place during Skyrim Civil War would just make TES VI seem like it doesn't matter since you never heard about it in Skyrim.

I'm telling you, the easiest solution and the most logical is that they both lose in the long run.

 

[GenericEdgelordSupreme]

I've noticed a trend in the ES games: each one improves the graphics and gameplay, simplifies the RPG elements, and makes the creatures and environment less exotic and more generic. So, I'm expecting TESVI to look amazing but take too long to come out, be full of glitches at release, treat me like a retard who's afraid of numbers in video games, and be less cool and interesting than the previous entry because "cool and interesting" doesn't sell as well as "done to death."

 

[John Titor]

I never understood why Morrowind is so beloved. To me, it seems like Final Fantasy VII syndrome where a lot of older gamers played it as their first Elder Scrolls and fell in love with it. It removed innovations from previous games like the court system in Elder Scrolls 2, and compared to Elder Scrolls 4 and 5, Morrowind looks and plays like shit. I remember when me and my cousins first bought it in the early 2000s, we just fumbled with it for a while, lost interest, and went back to playing real RPGs like KOTOR 1 and 2, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year-Door, and whatever Final Fantasy game we could get our hands on.

Not to mention the story was the narrative equivalent of premature ejaculation. Sure, there was a hint of an interesting plot with you being the Nerevarine and the conspiracy with the False Tribunal, but it ends BEFORE Dagoth Ur can wreck Morrowind with the Numidium. Which is stupid as hell. Imagine if someone assassinated Mankar Camoran before the Mythic Dawn could open the first Oblivion Gate on Kvatch. Or if someone killed Alduin before he laid siege to Helgen. Or imagine if you will, in the first Star Wars, what if Princess Leia escaped the grasp of Grand Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader and triggered the self-destruct for the Death Star just as it pops up in orbit over Alderaan. The Death Star blows up, Tarkin and Vader die with it, Leia gets away in an escape pod, crash lands on her homeworld, and that's the end of the movie.

So it looks like shit (the graphics were horribly inferior to many games coming out in the early 2000s, even other RPGs like Final Fantasy X or KOTOR) plays like shit (hit detection is nonsense, to the point where your weapon breaks even if you MISS a target) and its story isn't even all that good. Why in the hell do people suck up to it so much? At least with the Final Fantasy fanboys who played 7, I can understand-it was a fun game, it had a story with an epic scale (fighting Sephiroth in the end) and it was cutting-edge at the time. Morrowind was already showing its age when compared to other RPGs of that era, be it FFX or KOTOR 1, both of which had far better graphics and gameplay than Morrowind, and in KOTOR's case a far better story which blows Morrowind's story out of the water.

Then you compare Morrowind to the next two installments in the Elder Scrolls franchise, and it's an even bigger joke. Oblivion was more expansive as a game than Morrowind, not to mention more fun and more user-friendly. Plus, the enemy actually does get to inflict damage on the region instead of having his plans foiled before they're enacted. Skyrim is the quintessential fantasy game, one that's easy to get into and one that has fun boss battles with dragons that many casual players can enjoy.

And when it comes to enemies, these two games serve up better foes. Oblivion sends you to go up against armies of Daedra, and the DLCs even go further with it by giving you a fight with a demigod and with the strongest Daedric Prince in Elder Scrolls. Skyrim pits you against a small army of dragons, a cult of vampires, and an evil version of you who knows more about the powers you wield than you do, all of whom are menacing the land by the time you get there. Down to the point where you will be attacked by dragons, vampires, and cultists serving the three final bosses (Alduin, Harkon, and Miraak) in the towns and cities where you go around.

Any of these foes are far better than Dagoth Ur. Even Harkon, who in essence was just Dracula in Elder Scrolls, is a far better adversary than Dagoth Ur, as his forces are already menacing the land, to the point where society had to respond in the form of the Dawnguard just to combat him and stop him from blacking out the sun, a far more sinister plan than Dagoth Ur just stomping around in Morrowind and contesting power with the Septims. Alduin would have restored the dominion of the dragons over the mortal realm and enslaved all mortal races. Jyggalag would have returned and upended the balance of power in Oblivion. Umaril was running around desecrating churches and striking against the Nine Divines. Miraak would have returned to the mortal realm and used his power to control dragons to establish his dominance.

So I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why Morrowind is so popular, outside of old nostalgia. It's not the best Elder Scrolls game by a longshot (ES2 had more features, ES4 and 5 were more fun) and it certainly wasn't even the best RPG of that early 2000s era (KOTOR would have that crown). Not to mention that it looks like shit, plays like shit, and the story ends just around the point where it gets interesting. Morrowind's saving grace is some nice lore, but Oblivion and Skyrim blows it out of the water on that regard as well, what with Skyrim's lore being about the ancient war with the dragons while Oblivion shows you a lot of Daedric lore as well, down to the point of showing you who the strongest Daedric Prince was. So even in Morrowind's strongest point, the other games utterly surpass it, and its gameplay and graphics, which the players have to deal with 90% of the time, are far inferior to other RPG games that came out in the same year. (FFX came out in 2001, KOTOR came out in 2003. Morrowind came out in 2002.)

I played Skyrim and Oblivion first so I have no nostalgia bias. I thought it had some good ideas, you can fuck around with spells and shit and I liked that they put an effort into the story where the prophecy is more than "you're the chosen one who will save us". It's not without faults, I fucking hated the running speed and how it's mandatory you have to run into a wall afk to level it up.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I played Skyrim and Oblivion first so I have no nostalgia bias. I thought it had some good ideas, you can fuck around with spells and shit and I liked that they put an effort into the story where the prophecy is more than "you're the chosen one who will save us". It's not without faults, I fucking hated the running speed and how it's mandatory you have to run into a wall afk to level it up.

That's what made Morrowind very artificial to me, not to mention immersion-breaking. At least you never had to worry about that with Skyrim. Whenever you have to grind skills just to reach the level of some enemies on the map, it makes the game immersion-breaking because you now have to stop for an hour or two repeating the same thing in order to get more powerful. I never had to do that in Oblivion or Skyrim.

 

[Neo-Holstien]

you should not grind in morrowind, skill requirements are the game telling you to go do a different quest or if you got the drakes hire a professional trainer (I admit I prefer Daggerfalls trainers). I have never had a game where I reached 5 hours without maxing acrobatics or athletics.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

I played Skyrim and Oblivion first so I have no nostalgia bias. I thought it had some good ideas, you can fuck around with spells and shit and I liked that they put an effort into the story where the prophecy is more than "you're the chosen one who will save us". It's not without faults, I fucking hated the running speed and how it's mandatory you have to run into a wall afk to level it up.

Run speed is solved in like 45 minutes into a playthrough when you get boots of blinding speed, get a custom magic resist spell, and put them on during the 2 seconds it functions.

If you don't want to be that guy just go steed sign and dark elf, your speed is pretty good at level 1 now. Bonus points if you take short blades, you can actually hit scribs reliably at level 1.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

On the canonicity of what happened in Skyrim, I have a feeling that the Empire loses the Civil War. Even without the Dragonborn's influence, the people of Skyrim have no reason to support the Empire. Where was the Empire when the Forsworn took Markarth or in handling the refugees from Morrowind? There seems to be no benefit for being part of the Empire unless you are financial ties to the Empire. Not to mention that the dragons are a threat that probably strain the Empire's resources.

On a thematic level, the Empire died at the end of the Oblivion Crisis as the link between it and its founder, Tiber Septim ceased. Perhaps in Tiber's use of the Numidium to conquer Tamriel, he tied or was required to tie the existence of the Empire to his dynasty?

Which leads me to where I think Elder Scrolls VI will go towards. Based on that teaser a few years ago, the climate depicted feels like High Rock. Maybe your quest is to reactivate the Numidium or use the Ada-Mantia to return Talos to the physical world as Tiber Septim? Or perhaps your player character is the reincarnation of Tiber Septim, imprisoned by the Thalmor, and somehow breaks out. And then the main questline is all about finding out your past and reestablishing the legend of Tiber Septim as you see fit.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

The Empire has been circling the drain ever since Jagar Tharn spent ten years running it into the ground. Even Tiber Septim himself says this to you in Morrowind. The Oblivion Crisis just accelerated the inevitable.

 

[Super Hans]

On a thematic level, the Empire died at the end of the Oblivion Crisis as the link between it and its founder, Tiber Septim ceased. Perhaps in Tiber's use of the Numidium to conquer Tamriel, he tied or was required to tie the existence of the Empire to his dynasty?

Which leads me to where I think Elder Scrolls VI will go towards. Based on that teaser a few years ago, the climate depicted feels like High Rock. Maybe your quest is to reactivate the Numidium or use the Ada-Mantia to return Talos to the physical world as Tiber Septim? Or perhaps your player character is the reincarnation of Tiber Septim, imprisoned by the Thalmor, and somehow breaks out. And then the main questline is all about finding out your past and reestablishing the legend of Tiber Septim as you see fit.

I'm perfectly fine with the Empire fracturing into dust without it having some Big Reason. Empires get decadent and without purpose and eventually buckle under the weight of their own bullshit in real life all the time. With the Thalmor fighting their damndest to enact Armageddon too, the Empire's death is all but certain in the near future post-Skyrim.

As for what ES6, looking up the teaser again High Rock could be it, but with only one location shown it could be almost anywhere. For as much shit as Oblivion gets for having a generic environment, it still has very diverse biomes. To me, the game being set in Hammerfell makes the most sense. High Rock was already featured in Daggerfall. The Thalmor wanting Hammerfell was set up in 5, and them fighting for that area in particular is militarily logical to ramp up the pressure on the Empire's heartland. And from a gameplay standpoint, it gives an easy-in for multiplayer with Thalmor v Hammerfell instanced battles, which Bethesda could make their big selling point for the game, like Radiant AI and Quests were for the games before. Radiant Battles.

 

[Crevasse-hole]

Holy shit, I forgot how busted this game is. I started a new playthrough a few days ago, used the fortify restoration loop and created enchanted armor with a 6 figure bonus to health and two handed damage. Damn near took the head off one of the stronger dragon priests

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

On the canonicity of what happened in Skyrim, I have a feeling that the Empire loses the Civil War. Even without the Dragonborn's influence, the people of Skyrim have no reason to support the Empire. Where was the Empire when the Forsworn took Markarth or in handling the refugees from Morrowind? There seems to be no benefit for being part of the Empire unless you are financial ties to the Empire. Not to mention that the dragons are a threat that probably strain the Empire's resources.

On a thematic level, the Empire died at the end of the Oblivion Crisis as the link between it and its founder, Tiber Septim ceased. Perhaps in Tiber's use of the Numidium to conquer Tamriel, he tied or was required to tie the existence of the Empire to his dynasty?

Which leads me to where I think Elder Scrolls VI will go towards. Based on that teaser a few years ago, the climate depicted feels like High Rock. Maybe your quest is to reactivate the Numidium or use the Ada-Mantia to return Talos to the physical world as Tiber Septim? Or perhaps your player character is the reincarnation of Tiber Septim, imprisoned by the Thalmor, and somehow breaks out. And then the main questline is all about finding out your past and reestablishing the legend of Tiber Septim as you see fit.

I don't think so. If anything, the authors of Elder Scrolls have an Empire bias. It was the Empire that got the Nerevarine into Morrowind, you worked for the Empire in Elder Scrolls 2 and 4, and Elder Scrolls 5 clearly shows you that the Stormcloaks do not stand for the majority of the people in Skyrim. The Imperials in Skyrim still secretly worship Talos despite hating the living shit out of Ulfric Stormcloak, and Ulfric's Skyrim openly despises the Argonians and Dunmer, meaning that it wouldn't last long without allies. That, and the Empire still has the financial benefit through trade. The Stormcloaks have no influence with magic, and even facing local recruits, the Stormcloaks cannot defeat the weakened Imperials without the Dragonborn's influence. Not to mention that Tullius and Rikke are smarter AND more honorable than Ulfric and Galmar.

Also notice that Ulfric will not attack Solitude when the Emperor is nearby-he doesn't want to risk a war with the real Imperial Legion guarding the border down south with the Thalmor. Heck, just go back to the beginning of Skyrim-Tullius had Ulfric beat before Alduin showed up. If things were left the way they are, without the Dragonborn interfering, then the Empire would obviously win, since they have half of Skyrim and its people loyal to them, not to mention the money from down south funding their campaigns. You can't fight a war on an empty purse.

I'd personally prefer it if ES6 went to Alinor. That way, you can easily affect the direction of the Thalmor and the Dominion. We already went through Imperial lands in Elder Scrolls 4 and 5. Why not go to the heart of the Dominion in 6? Heck, to one-up the Last Dragonborn, I'd have the player character be a Demiprince who got captured and experimented on by the Thalmor, and you break out and wage your own war against them while the Daedric Princes or the dragons are plotting their own schemes in Alinor to screw over the Elves, and you can decide whether or not you would help your Thalmor persecutors and gain their respect by saving them from Daedra and dragon alike, or if you'd side with the otherworldly invaders and screw over the people who tried to use you to regain their "lost divinity".

 

[X Pac Heat]

I don't think so. If anything, the authors of Elder Scrolls have an Empire bias

I don't know how anyone can honestly say this given all the information presented about The Great War and the current Empire in background information. They lost Hammerfell, they lost Argonian support, they're going to lose Skyrim. That's not even getting into the Michael Kirkbride stuff.

Ulfric's Skyrim openly despises the Argonians and Dunmer, meaning that it wouldn't last long without allies

Dunmer are a displaced population, Argonians are so few in number within Skyrim, and as a group stand alone. It's really a moot point.

If things were left the way they are, without the Dragonborn interfering, then the Empire would obviously win,

Hammerfell says hello.

since they have half of Skyrim and its people loyal to them

Except they don't. The thing with Ulfrics side is that they all want out from the Empire, even if they don't believe that Ulfric will be the great leader he or his loyalists say he will be. On the other hand, you find plenty of people on the other side who seem indifferent to the Empire and are only with them out of loyalty to their Jarl or simply because they just want to get on with their lives.

Empire fans seem to miss the bigger picture or the story between the lines. They can't "win" Skyrim because they can't devote the resources to it as it would leave them too open to the Thalmor. It's the same reason that the Thalmor could not overtake Hammerfell. At some point the war will become more costly than it is worth, and the rebellion will not end with Ulfrics death because half or more of the population is actively against the Empire.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I don't know how anyone can honestly say this given all the information presented about The Great War and the current Empire in background information. They lost Hammerfell, they lost Argonian support, they're going to lose Skyrim. That's not even getting into the Michael Kirkbride stuff.

Compare them to the Stormcloaks, and it's not even close. If the Empire just rotated a few legions from the border with the Dominion, they'd crush the Stormcloaks in an afternoon, and even without that, they have no problems keeping the Stormcloaks at bay.

Dunmer are a displaced population, Argonians are so few in number within Skyrim, and as a group stand alone. It's really a moot point.

No it ain't. Skyrim's relationship with outside nations is based on how well it treats outsiders within its own realms. Would the Dunmer or the Argonians consider an alliance with the Stormcloaks against the Dominion if Ulfric treats their kin within Skyrim's borders poorly? No. They'd rather throw in with the Dominion if it's a choice of them or Ulfric.

Hammerfell says hello.

Hammerfell is already ruined beyond repair. The Dominion decided to leave it because it no longer had any value whatsoever.

Except they don't. The thing with Ulfrics side is that they all want out from the Empire, even if they don't believe that Ulfric will be the great leader he or his loyalists say he will be. On the other hand, you find plenty of people on the other side who seem indifferent to the Empire and are only with them out of loyalty to their Jarl or simply because they just want to get on with their lives.

Except we see all the time that Ulfric isn't even a good leader. During the Great War, he was easily captured and brainwashed by the elves into believing that the info he gave helped turn the tide of the war. Then he got easily captured by his Imperial co-workers. Then you go to Skyrim, and more than half the Nords are OK with the Empire still being around. Either that, or they don't care who wins either way. The idea that Ulfric has the people's support is utter horseshit when A) a good number of Nords remain loyal to the Empire and B) the rest don't give a shit who wins or loses. The only difference is that if the Imperials win the Skyrim Civil War, they can fix the damage from the war faster thanks to the money the Empire has from all the trade and businesses back in Cyrodiil, meaning they can get ready for Round 2 of the Great War with the Thalmor much sooner. Meanwhile, if Skyrim becomes its own kingdom, fixing the damage from the war will take time, and with no other allies from the outside, and the country still recovering from the civil war, they would be vulnerable to a Thalmor fleet sailing up north to invade Skyrim, and with the Empire no longer involved, they won't care if Stormcloak Skyrim falls to the Dominion.

Empire fans seem to miss the bigger picture or the story between the lines. They can't "win" Skyrim because they can't devote the resources to it as it would leave them too open to the Thalmor. It's the same reason that the Thalmor could not overtake Hammerfell. At some point the war will become more costly than it is worth, and the rebellion will not end with Ulfrics death because half or more of the population is actively against the Empire.

Yes they can. The Empire was already winning the war against Ulfric despite them using only local recruits who are poorly armed and armored. The game even starts with Ulfric captured because the Imps caught him with his pants down. Also, less than half the population supports the Stormcloaks, since 5 out of 9 holds are pro-Imperial. Ulfric has to even attack the neutral hold of Whiterun just to prove his strength, whereas Tullius was winning before Alduin got involved. If the war kept on going, the Stormcloaks would run out of coin, while the Empire could keep funding its war, and the Empire would just win from the sheer amount of resources or force of arms. All without removing any of the veteran legions guarding the border with the Dominion.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

There isn't even really an Empire anymore.

Black Marsh: Seceded, are currently independent and look to remain that way since nobody can invade.

Elsweyr: Seceded. Eventually become Client states of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Hammerfell: Seceded after the great war. Has successfully repelled the Aldmeri Dominion although it has devastated the country.

High Rock: Admittedly the least is said about them. The most I've ever heard was that both Ulfric and Tullius asked High Rock for support and were completely ignored which shows where their priorities are.

Morrowind: Red Mountain went boom. Then Argonians invaded. Empire didn't do shit so a lot of Dunmer died halting the invasion. Dunmer resent the Empire, so much so that House Hlaalu has been replaced due to their Imperial ties.

Skyrim: Active rebellion taking place.

You really have to not be paying attention to think they can hold Skyrim.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

There isn't even really an Empire anymore.

Black Marsh: Seceded, are currently independent and look to remain that way since nobody can invade.

Elsweyr: Seceded. Eventually become Client states of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Hammerfell: Seceded after the great war. Has successfully repelled the Aldmeri Dominion although it has devastated the country.

High Rock: Admittedly the least is said about them. The most I've ever heard was that both Ulfric and Tullius asked High Rock for support and were completely ignored which shows where their priorities are.

Morrowind: Red Mountain went boom. Then Argonians invaded. Empire didn't do shit so a lot of Dunmer died halting the invasion. Dunmer resent the Empire, so much so that House Hlaalu has been replaced due to their Imperial ties.

Skyrim: Active rebellion taking place.

You really have to not be paying attention to think they can hold Skyrim.

Except they're winning the war without even involving their real armies from Cyrodiil or High Rock that are guarding the border with the Dominion. All we get from the Imperials in Skyrim are the common recruits wearing leather, recruited from local Nord villages. And when Skyrim starts, they were WINNING.

Also, note that 5 out of 9 holds are pro-Imperial. Even neutral Whiterun has guards be more receptive of you if you dress like an Imperial, while despising you if you dress like a Stormcloak. So even if we go with only local forces, and little interference from Cyrodiil, the Empire will win in Skyrim if the Dragonborn doesn't get involved. Mostly because Ulfric has the brains of Leeroy Jenkins, and was already on his way to losing his head before Alduin decided to interfere.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Compare them to the Stormcloaks, and it's not even close. If the Empire just rotated a few legions from the border with the Dominion, they'd crush the Stormcloaks in an afternoon, and even without that, they have no problems keeping the Stormcloaks at bay.

And then the Dominion would have an open path to Cyrodil. Empire loses.

No it ain't. Skyrim's relationship with outside nations is based on how well it treats outsiders within its own realms. Would the Dunmer or the Argonians consider an alliance with the Stormcloaks against the Dominion if Ulfric treats their kin within Skyrim's borders poorly? No. They'd rather throw in with the Dominion if it's a choice of them or Ulfric.

You're not paying attention. The Dunmer *can't* form an alliance with anyone because they're in such a weakend and displaced state. They're not helping anyone. Moot Point.

The Argonians have actively stated they aren't aligning with anyone, and have flat out attacked the Morrowind for their own ends. They're not going to align with Skyrim regardless as it holds no benefit to them. Moot point.

Hammerfell is already ruined beyond repair. The Dominion decided to leave it because it no longer had any value whatsoever.

Which is my exact point about Empire with Skyrim.

Except we see all the time that Ulfric isn't even a good leader.

I'm not quoting most of this because it's all just plain wrong. You're pulling so much shit out of your ass on this one it isn't even funny, and you're way too focused on Ulfric. Ulfric doesn't matter. Empire losing Skyrim doesn't mean Ulfric wins Skyrim. Ulfric also cannot hold Skyrim.

Also, less than half the population supports the Stormcloaks, since 5 out of 9 holds are pro-Imperial. Ulfric has to even attack the neutral hold of Whiterun just to prove his strength, whereas Tullius was winning before Alduin got involved. If the war kept on going, the Stormcloaks would run out of coin, while the Empire could keep funding its war, and the Empire would just win from the sheer amount of resources or force of arms. All without removing any of the veteran legions guarding the border with the Dominion.

You keep conflating Jarl support with population support when you just admitted that most of them don't give a shit about the Empire. The Jarls support only lasts as long as it's beneficial to them.

You keep acting like Cyrodill has endless coin. They don't. And even then, this logic goes out the window when you look at the real world. Or was I taught wrong and the US totally whupped Vietnam and Afghanistan's ass?

Sheer amount of forces? From who? Morrowind is a husk that doesn't even like the Empire, High Rock is ignoring the war entirely. Do you actually pay attention to anything in the story? This Empire isn't much more than Cyrodil itself at this point.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

And when Skyrim starts, they were WINNING.

No they're not.

They haven't managed to capture a single hold that is against them. They managed to capture Ulfric, and instead of executing him on the spot they spend a couple days transporting him to Helgen.

You say Ulfric is an idiot? It seems like Tullius is just as much of an idiot.

Edit: Oh, I get it now.

Empire can kill Ulfric. I don't argue that, but they won't be able to continue to hold onto Skyrim. That's the point we are making here I think.