The End of Forgivness - Your Death Will Not Save You

[MadPreacher1AD]

'Forgiving some deeds is in and of itself an act of evil' is an interesting philosophy. Obviously a completely different worldview. but most Christians would disagree. While objectively it's easy to prove that 'forgiving' in the sense of 'not-punishing' crimes like murder is dangerous and evil, that is not using the Christian definition of forgiveness.

In general, most Christian theology (obviously there are sects) would say that because all humans are fallen and sinners we really don't have the grounds to be holding things against each other. That's what the parable about the Unforgiving Servant was about. God forgives us, even though we deserve to be punished, so we forgive others. And it doesn't matter if we've never done the worst things mankind is capable of, God is the only righteous judge. Just like in our modern legal system, a judge that has stolen and lied under oath would be disbarred and wouldn't be allowed to judge a pedo.

Also most Christians would agree that Christian forgiveness doesn't prevent you from receiving the earthy punishments you earned from breaking earthly laws. That's why Christian countries would offer death row inmates priests and pastors before executions. So they could get Christian forgiveness from God. And the families of those harmed would be expected to forgive the murderer and pray for his soul. But most theologians of different denominations would say the judge and executioner didn't preform some kind of damnable sin by condemning a man to die.

You don't have to like it, or agree with it. But Christian forgiveness is so distinctly different from human or secular forgiveness because you have a giant crucifixion shaped thumb on the scales. The fact that, in the Christian's eyes, God allowed man to torture and kill him. The being that they believe created this universe and thus this entire causality chain of pain and murder, was punished for it. If you don't believe in that thumb on the scales of justice, you're going to see things differently, and withholding forgiveness is just.

Lots of Christians wouldn't say it like this, and lots of Christians are judgy asshats burning heretics and holding grudges, but if you dig down into the theology that's not how it's supposed to be practiced.

A well thought out and succinct post that explains the core behind Judeo-Christian beliefs. I would like to add to your excellent post something that is frequently overlooked.

Part of forgiveness is that we are to not judge someone based upon their sins in a way that we determine where they'll end up at once their life is over. Matthew 7:1-5 is very clear about this point. This is because the priests often sat in judgment for crimes that were committed. They had oftentimes declared that a person would end up in the evil side of Sheol which meant eternal damnation. Only Yahweh could make that judgment, which is why Matthew 7:1-5 and other scriptures on the subject exist. If someone commits a crime like murder we can judge them on that murder in the earthly realm, but we cannot judge them on where they will end up in the afterlife. Only Yahweh can do that.

There is also the matter of the adulteress that was about to be stoned according to Torah Moshe. A group of Pharisee hunters captured the woman and tested Yeshua's judgment. The law of Moshe is quite clear in that an adulterer/adulteress are to be put to death for their crime. However, the Pharisees only captured the woman and let the man go. That would have unjust for her to be put to death while the man still lived. This is part of the reason why Yeshua forgave her and told her to sin no more. One cannot be just when rendering unjust verdicts. It is best to render forgiveness, a just act, then to be unjust.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

"The End of Forgiveness - Your Death Will Not Save You"

You're already dead.
This has and always will be hell.
You were never gave the chance for forgiveness because a psychopathic god only sees you as a play thing for his entertainment and when you break you get thrown to his most uncaring demonic son for punishment for not following this god's ridiculous rules.

This is why we need an "edgelord" rating.

 

[Begemot]

@Secret Asshole What I think might change this, strangely enough, will be the economic left. The reason multicorps want in to Georgia is the lax labour laws, they want the benefit of Republican low taxes without their beliefs on gender.
Identity politics is cheap, actual unionisation or oversight scares them Look at what happened to Amazon in New York. Now, admittedly they usually compromise but that tension is still there. A publication like Jacobin magazine is very untrusting of neo-liberalism, it's dumb SJW rubes who have no idea about leftism that are the easy marks.

 

[OjSimpsonFan21]

Honestly Christians can talk the talk all they want about forgiveness but at the end of the day we’re all human. It takes a really unique and strong type of person to forgive someone of some direct wrongdoing and I don’t think following Jesus (or any religion) makes you any more or less likely to forgive.

I do, however, agree with the more neutral point that we have reached a point in society where we are actively looking for past blemishes to destroy people almost merely for the entertainment of doing so. Cancel Culture is a societal tumor that I suspect will die out in the coming years when all the “righteous indignation” burns out and leveler heads prevail.

 

[MadPreacher1AD]

Honestly Christians can talk the talk all they want about forgiveness but at the end of the day we’re all human. It takes a really unique and strong type of person to forgive someone of some direct wrongdoing and I don’t think following Jesus (or any religion) makes you any more or less likely to forgive.

I do, however, agree with the more neutral point that we have reached a point in society where we are actively looking for past blemishes to destroy people almost merely for the entertainment of doing so. Cancel Culture is a societal tumor that I suspect will die out in the coming years when all the “righteous indignation” burns out and leveler heads prevail.

Except many Christians and Jews do forgive people all the time. It's part of their beliefs. Speaking for myself, the hardest is to forgive people who have abused you. I've had to forgive a lot of people for all the abuse they've heaped on me. The reason is simple. According to scripture, like The Lord's Prayer, we need to forgive others of their sins against us as we ask Yahweh to forgive us of our sins against him. It's built into the belief system and those that can't or won't forgive are not Christian or Jewish (religious wise). In order to be one you have to follow the laws given by Yahweh. That's all that sin is by the way. Sin is just the name for us breaking his laws.

EDIT: I never mentioned forgetting because we're allowed to remember so we learn to avoid doing the same thing again.

 

[OjSimpsonFan21]

Except many Christians and Jews do forgive people all the time. It's part of their beliefs. Speaking for myself, the hardest is to forgive people who have abused you. I've had to forgive a lot of people for all the abuse they've heaped on me. The reason is simple. According to scripture, like The Lord's Prayer, we need to forgive others of their sins against us as we ask Yahweh to forgive us of our sins against him. It's built into the belief system and those that can't or won't forgive are not Christian or Jewish (religious wise). In order to be one you have to follow the laws given by Yahweh. That's all that sin is by the way. Sin is just the name for us breaking his laws.

EDIT: I never mentioned forgetting because we're allowed to remember so we learn to avoid doing the same thing again.

The point I am trying to make is that forgiveness and such is not really an exclusively Christian or Jewish or really specific to any one religion, and being a follower of a religion that espouses forgiveness doesn’t automatically mean that you take all tenets of said religion, including forgiveness. In my eyes forgiveness is more of a basic human virtue than one specifically taught or believed and therefore tied to any one specific group.

 

[MadPreacher1AD]

The point I am trying to make is that forgiveness and such is not really an exclusively Christian or Jewish or really specific to any one religion, and being a follower of a religion that espouses forgiveness doesn’t automatically mean that you take all tenets of said religion, including forgiveness. In my eyes forgiveness is more of a basic human virtue than one specifically taught or believed and therefore tied to any one specific group.

I get what you were going for duff. I just was adding to your point. I do that a lot since I view arguing to be a pointless venture.

 

[stuffandthings]

I view arguing to be a pointless venture.

That is distinctly unJewish of you.

 

[MadPreacher1AD]

That is distinctly unJewish of you.

Well I hope so since I'm not Jewish. LOL

 

[Dom Cruise]

It's good for people to have ideals even if they often fail to live up to them, abandoning the ideal of forgiveness and redemption is a really bad change.

 

[AnOminous]

Also most Christians would agree that Christian forgiveness doesn't prevent you from receiving the earthy punishments you earned from breaking earthly laws.

Hence the phrase uttered upon pronouncing a sentence of death: "May God have mercy on your soul." Your body is still going to swing.

 

[Y2K Baby]

yES, the world is ruined because of SJW,

 

[Ineedahero]

God couldn't make Satan or evil "cease to exist", evil is as eternal a force as good, you can't have one without the other, the idea is that one day Satan and evil would be safely contained in Hell, but it would still exist.

This is a distinctly gnostic perspective I think, and I expect most Christians would disagree with you, but I actually met an entire congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses who seemed to think similarly. It was about 15 years ago, in Queensland, and I was dating a girl who was a (really shitty) Jehovah's witness. I had stayed the night at her place and in the morning she wanted to go to the Kingdom Hall for mass or whatever jws do at church. And most of it was normal jesus loving stuff, but peppered with this concept of evil being an everlasting force that the light struggles against. I wish I could remember what jesus story they were talking about that led me to ask further questions, because it wasn't one I'd heard before - anyway the end result was I spoke to the elders about it and they explained that Satan is a god, just like Yahweh, and he is the god of earth, which is why there is so much suffering.

 

[RadicalCentrist]

I am in STEM and around academia and have been for most of my life. I won't explicitly say since me even posting here would endanger my future.

Lmao it's only a matter of time until you slip up and get run out for wrongthink

Should probably have an exit strategy just in case.

 

[stuffandthings]

Lmao it's only a matter of time until you slip up and get run out for wrongthink

Should probably have an exit strategy just in case.

Good exit strategy if you do get caught: There's a whole spectrum of conservative schools that would probably lap you up for being a thoughtcrime martyr. But at the worst you may have to worship the golden calf at the altar of Oral Roberts.

 

[Emperor Julian]

So as a dirty dirty pagan apostate, Emperor Julian, how do you feel about that? And how is that 3rd temple in Jerusalem going?

Not as well as one would hope but Roman Paganism is alive and Well

The city of God was never conquered but it was certainly seduced.

 

[QI 541]

2000s: the internet does not forgive or forget
Current year: wow sjws are much better than this than we are

 

[DidYouJustSayThat]

It's just a retread of McCarthyism and the Satanic Panic.

It'll die out just like they did and be replaced with another witch hunt in the next couple of decades.

I'll give you the satanic panic, but McCarthy has been proven to have been right by declassified Soviet docs - if he was wrong about anything, it was for not going far enough. The rot was too deep and they got him. They have even gotten to you, since you are mindlessly repeating communist slander of McCarthy without giving it a second thought.

 

[Begemot]

McCarthy has been proven to have been right by declassified Soviet docs, if he was wrong about anything, it was for not going far enough. The rot was too deep and they got him. They have even gotten to you, since you are mindlessly repeating communist slander of McCarthy without thinking.

McCarthy is continually brought up by leftists because it's the closest they got to being tarnished irreparably. They are fascinated by warped depictions of what they believe conservatism will lead to: look at the scandalised fetishisation of mad men, it was naught y because it showed the last time the advertising industry was contaminated by wrong think. Look at the handmaid's tale and the man in the high castle. They would love to have actual fascists as enemies instead of the milquetoast corporate whores the Republicans mostly put out. So they created a version of conservative with no nuance at all. Even if conservatism faded from the earth they would endlessly recreate the trauma of disagreement through their media

 

[Secret Asshole]

@Secret Asshole What I think might change this, strangely enough, will be the economic left. The reason multicorps want in to Georgia is the lax labour laws, they want the benefit of Republican low taxes without their beliefs on gender.
Identity politics is cheap, actual unionisation or oversight scares them Look at what happened to Amazon in New York. Now, admittedly they usually compromise but that tension is still there. A publication like Jacobin magazine is very untrusting of neo-liberalism, it's dumb SJW rubes who have no idea about leftism that are the easy marks.

I think economics is going to play a large part of it, you're right. At the end of the day, when they have to chose enforcing morality or money, they're going to chose money.

Hence the phrase uttered upon pronouncing a sentence of death: "May God have mercy on your soul." Your body is still going to swing.

Indeed. That's why I mentioned public executions were basically religious ceremonies early on. You would be punished for your earthly crimes, but at the same time you'd atone for your sins. Like I said, barbaric, but at least the dead have that chance. Seems like you could commit ritual sepukku these days and people would say you didn't suffer enough and shit on your grave.

Lmao it's only a matter of time until you slip up and get run out for wrongthink

Should probably have an exit strategy just in case.

Funnily enough, I work with a lot of foreigners (Persians, Indians, Pakistanis, Albanians, Russians, Poles, Chinese, etc.) and they really don't follow the political correctness of America. It really is a distinctly Western thing and some of the shit they say is hilarious due to the climate today. However, when I teach, I treat students like Ukrainian Politicians treat Polonium. I keep my distance, don't get too involved and watch my ass.

Good exit strategy if you do get caught: There's a whole spectrum of conservative schools that would probably lap you up for being a thoughtcrime martyr. But at the worst you may have to worship the golden calf at the altar of Oral Roberts.

Sad thing is I'm mostly centrist in my beliefs, not super conservative. But whatever, I'm a survivor. So I'd do what it takes. I usually keep my mouth shut and go with the opinions of the higher-ups. You never know when some cunt is going to stab you in the back to climb that ladder.