Culture The fertility conversation we’re not having - Our economy isn’t built for the biological clock. But it can be.

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Everyone should have the right to decide if and when they have children. Yet over the past 50 years, the United States has built an economy that increasingly works against fertility — demanding more years in school and longer hours at work for people, especially women, in the years when it is biologically easiest for them to have children, and concentrating wealth and income among those past their reproductive prime.

As a result, American schools and workplaces are particularly ill-suited for supporting those who hope to start families earlier than average.

“If I were to complain about how society ‘has wronged me as a woman,’ it would be that it has treated my limited ‘fertility time’ with extreme disregard,” wrote Ruxandra Teslo, a genomics PhD student, recently on Substack. “At each step of the way I was encouraged to ‘be patient,’ do more training, told that ‘things will figure themselves out,’ even when I wanted and could have speedrun through things.”

The average age of a new mom is now 27.5, up from age 21 in 1970. I had no interest in having kids in my early twenties, but there are certainly reasons others might want that: Fertility decreases with age, and some find it easier to keep up with young children when they themselves are younger and have more energy. Others hope for larger families so may need to start conceiving earlier, or may prioritize making sure their own parents have many years to spend with grandkids.

Of course, discussing reproductive timelines is fraught. Having others invoke the fact that women experience a decline in fertility with age feels intrusive and insensitive. And the conversation is even trickier today, when anti-abortion activists are pushing a conservative pro-baby agenda from the highest echelons of government and the Heritage Foundation is putting out literature blaming falling birth rates on too many people going to graduate school. (The evidence for that is very weak.)

Yet it’s precisely in such moments that progressive leaders should offer clear alternatives that both respect women’s autonomy and ensure people can make less constrained choices.

If mainstream feminism ignores the barriers to early parenthood, the right will be all too eager to fill the void. “If the so-called feminists, as long as they play it by the elite rules, refuse to take seriously what [we] can do to support young families, then the right can move in and say, ‘You might as well give up on your stupid ideas and career aspirations,’” marriage historian Stephanie Coontz told me.

Not everyone wants to become a parent, but most women do still say they wish to have children one day. If we’re serious about reproductive justice, then it’s a mistake to ignore how our schools and workplaces have evolved to be broadly hostile to both fertility and parenthood. Having kids at a younger age is not inherently better — but for those who want to do it, the economy shouldn’t be working against them at every step.

Colleges need to support parents, pregnant students, and prospective parents​

Many women believe, correctly, that college and graduate education are important paths not only for their own financial well-being, but also to afford raising kids in a country that offers so little support to families. The idea that people can just up and abandon higher education to have kids, per the Heritage Foundation, isn’t serious.

“We’ve just done so much to obscure the reality and to make it seem like, oh, moms are asking for too much, or they’re postponing too long, or maybe they shouldn’t be going to school so much,” said Jennifer Glass, a sociologist at University of Texas Austin who studies fertility and gender. “What an idiotic thing to say. The only way that women can get wages that are at all comparable to what’s necessary to raise a family is by getting a college degree.”

Yet the US has built one of the longest, most expensive educational pipelines in the world.

One reason many American students take longer to finish undergraduate degrees (or don’t finish at all) is because of financial pressures that students abroad don’t face.

Nations like Germany, France, and Norway offer free or heavily subsidized university education, while others, including the UK and Australia, have manageable, easily navigable income-based repayment systems. American students are more likely to be juggling multiple jobs alongside coursework, stretching the time to graduation.

The timeline stretches even longer for medical, legal, and doctoral degrees — tacking on years of extra training and credentialing that aren’t required elsewhere.

“There’s been an increase in the number of years of schooling that is totally unnecessary,” Claudia Goldin, a Harvard economist and Nobel Prize winner, told me, pointing to, among other factors, the explosion of post-docs and pre-docs, plus pressure for applicants to acquire some work experience before even beginning their graduate studies.

“I went to graduate school immediately after college, and schools like UChicago and MIT had rules then that if you were there for more than four years, you paid tuition, so that incentivized people to finish,” she said.
When educational timelines keep stretching with no structural support for parenting, the result is predictable: some people delay having children — or abandon those plans entirely.

This isn’t to say there are no parents on university campuses. There are roughly 3 million undergraduates — one in five college students — in the US today who have kids. But student parents are too often rendered invisible because most colleges don’t collect data on them and harbor outdated assumptions about who even seeks higher education.

“Colleges and universities still cater to what is considered ‘traditional students’ — so 18- to 24-year-olds who are getting financial assistance from their parents,” said Jennifer Turner, a sociologist at the Institute for Women’s Policy Research.

Student parents are far less likely to be receiving financial help from their own families than students of the same age and background without kids — and in general they’re more likely to struggle to afford basic needs. But most campuses neglect their unique challenges and fail to provide them with resources like on-campus housing, kid-friendly spaces, and child care support.

The Trump administration’s new budget proposal calls for gutting the only federal program that helps student parents with child care. And while pregnant students are entitled to some federal protections under the Americans with Disabilities Act and Title IX, in practice many students never even learn about them, or face intense stigma for using them.

For graduate students in particular, there’s no shortage of examples of students receiving both implicit and explicit signals to delay childbearing. Research found women were twice as likely as men to cite child care and parenting as reasons for leaving academia.

The financial fears are not irrational​

Whether or not women want to have children in their early or mid-twenties, many feel they can’t — because the career paths they pursue require longer routes to stability.

Women are more often funneled into professions that demand extra time, whether through extended schooling, slower advancement, or the need to earn extra credentials to prove themselves. Many fields where women are concentrated, like education, social work, psychology, and nursing, require graduate training for higher-paying roles. In contrast, men are more likely to enter skilled trades or businesses where higher earnings are possible without advanced degrees.

Goldin, the economist, pointed to the problem of the “rat race equilibrium” — where individuals over-invest accumulating credentials not because doing so is intrinsically valuable, but because everyone else is doing the same. In this situation, falling behind the pack carries high costs.

“People want a great job, so they stay in graduate school ‘too long.’ Firms want the best lawyer, so they keep associates for ‘too long.’ I don’t know what the optimal length is. But I do know that the addition of so many more years means that women will be more discouraged than will men,” she told me.

These extended educational timelines feed directly into jobs that are also not designed to support parenting during a woman’s prime childbearing years. Early-career workers typically earn less, have more precarious roles and rigid schedules, and often face more pressure to be fully available to employers to prove their commitment and worth.

Some then move on to what Goldin calls “greedy careers”: Law firms, consulting companies, and hospitals that demand total availability, rewarding those who can work weekends and penalizing those who seek more predictable schedules. For many parents it’s a double bind: the educational trajectories and high-paying jobs that make raising kids affordable are often the same ones with demands that make balancing family life nearly impossible.

We can structure society differently​

Fertility tech hasn’t yet conquered the biological clock, but we did build this economy — which means we can rebuild it differently.

Advocating for more efficient and more affordable education isn’t a retreat from academic rigor, but a clear-eyed confrontation with institutions that remain indifferent at best to having children. The most forward-thinking places will see that compressed, focused educational paths aren’t diluting standards, but respecting the fullness of human lives and creating systems where intellectual achievement doesn’t demand reproductive sacrifice.

Exactly how to help students manage timelines will vary. For those looking at careers in math and science, for example, there may be opportunities to take advanced courses in high school. Others would benefit from more financial aid, or using experiential learning credit, or enrolling in accelerated BA/MA programs. Some employers should be rethinking their mandates for college degrees at all.

But even with educational reforms, parents would still face legal barriers that other groups don’t. It’s still legal in many cases to discriminate against parents in hiring or housing. Making parents a protected class would be a straightforward step toward making parenthood more compatible with economic security.

Stronger labor regulations could also curb workplace coercion, and policies like those in Scandinavia — which allow parents to reduce their work hours when raising young children — could make it easier to balance kids with holding down a job.

The rise of remote work offers additional paths forward, and expanding it could reduce the stark either/or choices many prospective parents face. And there are other policy ideas that could make parenthood more affordable even when people are early in their career. Other high-income countries offer parents monthly child allowances, baby bonuses, subsidized child care, and paid parental leave. The US could follow suit — and go further — by investing in affordable housing, reducing the cost of college, and decoupling health care from employment.

For now, our current system abdicates responsibility. As Glass points out, while parents are paying more to have children, it’s employers and governments that reap the benefits of those adult workers and taxpayers, without shouldering the decades-long costs of training and raising them.

“What no one wants to face is that 150 years ago, when everyone lived on farms, having children did not make you poor, but they do today,” said Glass. “Children used to benefit their parents, they were part of the dominion of the patriarch, and when children did well the patriarch benefited. Now it’s employers and governments who benefit from well-raised children.”

It’s not feminist to ignore this​

I understand the reluctance to have these conversations. We don’t want the government poking around in our bedrooms, especially when some lawmakers are already on a mission to restrict reproductive freedom. It’s tempting to say policymakers and institutions should just shut up about any further discussion regarding having kids.

But that’s not serving people, either. Many other countries already confront these challenges with much more deliberate care. Honest conversations about fertility don’t need to be about telling women when or whether to have children — they should be about removing the artificial barriers that make it feel impossible to have kids at different stages of life.

This would all certainly be much easier if men stepped up to take these pressures more seriously. “If men felt as compelled as women to take time off, if men were experiencing the same thing, I think we’d get a lot more creative,” said Coontz.

We should continue investing in fertility technology, and expanding access to those options for people who want to delay childbearing or may need help conceiving. But IVF and egg freezing are never going to be the right tools for everyone, and people deserve the support to have children as they study and enter the workforce, too. Biology isn’t destiny, but we shouldn’t ignore it.

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It makes sense if you want to replace your native population with IQ85 brown retards.
Maybe, but I'm also thinking about those women who treat children as just another box to tick off on their life goals list. The ones who bought the lie about "you can have it all baby!" when there are still only 24 hours a day for them as well. I'm sure there are plenty of man and women out there who want kids AND the career AND the education AND the money AND the McMansion AND every toy known to man AND the retirement but never got the memo that something has to give. For men, we just know if you're climbing the corporate ladder, you will NEVER be home. Enjoy 18 hour days six days a week and catching up on emails on Sundays. But far too many women didn't think it through because they were told their entire lives that nothing was out of reach and no compromises would be needed to have it all.
 
I want my wife to be poor and helpless so I can lock her in a cage just like tweety bird. The only job she needs to be concerned with is making me a fucking sandwich.
Think of all the good sandwiches you are missing out on.

How do you not have a pink triangle? All you do is stir shit. You have zero desire to engage in good faith.
 
I didn’t think it was possible to make someone on this website so mad, so easily.

“When a man sets out to laugh at cows, he must take care lest he become a cow himself” - F. Nietzsche
You think Nietzsche is worth quoting so clearly you’re retarded.
How do you not have a pink triangle? All you do is stir shit. You have zero desire to engage in good faith.
I’m on a quest. Until I receive one nothing will change. After receiving a 3 month ban from politics general 2 I have only the burning desire to get banned from the thread further. I will do whatever it takes to earn my mark. The bit turns to reality and reality turns to doldrum while interacting with sub par idiots.
 
I did know a few women with full time careers that required higher education, had 1 and 2 kids. Seemed to have them earlier in their lives and were happy with them. Maybe is just balancing time with kids and job, and having close caretakers when possible?
The number of people who have the resources to make it work vs those who trust it will just "all work out" because they're a girlboss is still way out of whack.

Like the number of people who go pro in sports is but a near negligible fraction of the number who think they can go pro in sports.

We shouldn't be encouraging people to put their entire future on that roulette wheel by not telling them the actual odds.
 
We shouldn't be encouraging people to put their entire future on that roulette wheel by not telling them the actual odds.
You talk about it as if this was an absolute, black and white law with little in-between.
In many families around the world the men and women have relatives that aid in taking care of the children (And I mean aid, not fully replace them), then devoting most of the time outside work to their children.
 
The number of people who have the resources to make it work vs those who trust it will just "all work out" because they're a girlboss is still way out of whack.

Like the number of people who go pro in sports is but a near negligible fraction of the number who think they can go pro in sports.

We shouldn't be encouraging people to put their entire future on that roulette wheel by not telling them the actual odds.
We should be honest with women too. Tell them the wage gap exists, but only after you factor in the idea that many women drop out or work less for a few years when they have babies, so they aren't getting the promotions. And that the top tier jobs go to men because it's simply expected that men will work those 18 hour days and never see their family except for the one week a year they take a working vacation. That's the trade off.
 
The bit turns to reality and reality turns to doldrum while interacting with sub par idiots
You’re literally and unironically one of the most worthless posters on the site. Your every post is littered with ad hominems, faulty logic, execrable grammar, spelling errors and the most lukewarm of 60IQ takes.

And yet you preen your bedraggled feathers about how you do battle with ‘sub par idiots’ (please enlighten us all as to what constitutes an ‘on-par’ poster).

You smear shit all over every thread you touch, like an abandoned retard shit-finger-painting the walls in Romania’s cruellest orphanage. And you’re so incredibly oblivious to social cues that you proudly hold up as a badge of honor the bans you’ve collected for being an unlikeable retard.

If I were to guess, I’d guess that there’s something missing in your life. Employment, meaning, friends, affection, relevance, probably more than one of these. And to try to quiet the 24/7 voice in the back of your head screaming “why can’t you change your life you goddamn fucking loser, you worthless piece of shit” you come here and vomit up your mental chaos and trauma in a desperate, frantic scrabble for catharsis.

It’s the socio-psychological equivalent of cutting yourself in secret, a masochistic urge to be bullied and hated because at least it means someone cares enough to respond. You are an autistic child, screaming your self-hatred into a void of social indifference while praying the void will scream back, so that for a few fleeting moments you might forget just how truly alone you are.

Perhaps in time you will learn to not be such a colossal sperg and to fit in a bit better. Or maybe you’ll just eat a ban and find yourself excluded from yet another in a long line of social nexi from which you’ve been rejected. I can’t speak for everyone here, but either of those outcomes would be just fine by me.

You have a great day.


 
“If I were to complain about how society ‘has wronged me as a woman,’ it would be that it has treated my limited ‘fertility time’ with extreme disregard,” wrote Ruxandra Teslo, a genomics PhD student, recently on Substack.
1. Blame feminism.

2. Regret falling into the ideology, Mrs. Ms. genomics PhD student.
 
“If I were to complain about how society ‘has wronged me as a woman,’ it would be that it has treated my limited ‘fertility time’ with extreme disregard,”
You literally only have a limited time to be fertile and you wanted to be a career woman.

Feminism was a complete mistake. It has destroyed pretty much all nations.
 
Glad to see that people start noticing the patterns.
I have been in university and not a single soul was considering to do both uni and have a baby at the same time, which means there's half a decade where young women in their most fertile years do their best to avoid getting pregnant. Not to mention that there's zero support for something like that while there's plenty of hostility towards falling out of line, the academia is a hotbed for utterly insane teachers who will fail you for missing a single class and disputing this goes nowhere because the teachers are buddy-buddy with the administration who stems from similarly insane people.
Once you're through that bullshit it doesn't get any better because all these companies who are so adamant about higher education never seem to actually respect the effort and offer shit starting wages regardless. So on average you'll start seeing the fruits of your labor in the early 30s. Now you're getting dangerously close to all these memes about career women who are old but still want to have kids someday.
 
The thing is that once a critical mass of households are two earner, it’s over. They have such an economic advantage that it drives house prices up to be ‘what two working people can afford to repay every month’ rather than any metric that’s based on cost of materials or land (which also rise to meet what a couple can repay every month.’ So once some do, everyone else has to or be left behind.
It’s the same with college. When most women married younger, or just out of a first degree, then the women who perused careers that required further education were outliers. Then a critical mass did and now we all have to go because you can’t rely on getting married and have to provide for yourself.

said Jennifer Glass, a sociologist at University of Texas Austin who studies fertility and gender. “What an idiotic thing to say. The only way that women can get wages that are at all comparable to what’s necessary to raise a family is by getting a college degree.”
But that’s not the root cause, is it? That’s just exacerbating the issue. The root cause is the answer to WHY two wages are needed to raise a family. what changed?
What no one wants to face is that 150 years ago, when everyone lived on farms, having children did not make you poor, but they do today,” said Glass. “Children used to benefit their parents, they were part of the dominion of the patriarch, and when children did well the patriarch benefited. Now it’s employers and governments who benefit from well-raised children.”
Exactly. The family was an economic unit, and the vast majority of its output stayed within the family or the immediate community. All your labour benefitted YOU. The bits that went outside the home were minimal taxes, help for wider family and shopping or bartering locally. Now we work and 40% of what I earn is just gone immediately for tax upfront before it hits my account. Then I’m taxed for a million other things that don’t benefit me at all, nor do they benefit my wider community. Even silly stuff like flower in the village planters is fine, that benefits me, but war abroad and dinghy migrants harms me. I pay tax for petrol, roads, VAT on almost everything and the money I spend shopping for food isn’t from local for most stuff. I’m worked and worked and I see very little of the benefit.
If you want people to do something, you need to make the outcome of that action beneficial. The welfare class breeds because the outcome is higher benefits for no work. People used to greed becasue children haloed run the farm and care for you. Now people look at having children and see a lower standard of living, more work for less time and output for them and they don’t want to do it.
 
Not everyone wants to become a parent
This is a failure of the culture. It is the second most important biological driver behind food to reproduce. If we've beaten that out of our women, we've gone wrong. Raising kids is a joy, everyone SHOULD want to do it.
“What an idiotic thing to say. The only way that women can get wages that are at all comparable to what’s necessary to raise a family is by getting a college degree.”
If only they had a man that could support them.
There are roughly 3 million undergraduates — one in five college students — in the US today who have kids.
Get the fuck out of school and start raising the kid. Dad, go get a job. Mom, get to tending the house and making ties in the village.
 
I did know a few women with full time careers that required higher education, had 1 and 2 kids. Seemed to have them earlier in their lives and were happy with them. Maybe is just balancing time with kids and job, and having close caretakers when possible?
They will have help. Always. A cleaner, parents close by, employ someone to pick up and drop off, and/or the kids are long, long hours in daycare.
The number of people who have the resources to make it work vs those who trust it will just "all work out" because they're a girlboss is still way out of whack.
The number is zero for people in regular ‘I go to an office’ employment. You CANNOT be in the office 18 hours or even 13-14 hours a day and raise kids. Someone’s got to feed them and take them to school and care for them. Something has to give somewhere. The only people who manage are those with paid or family help or a sahp. When people say they do it all, they mean they have some kind of facilitation.
I have been lectured about time management a billion times and I always ask the same thing - gosh, well I struggle, how do YOU do it? I ask, with a tone of admiration. And every single time: a nanny, a babysitter, my wife is at home, my mother picks them up, we have an au pair, we have staff. Oh, I say sadly, well that sounds lovely, unfortunately I can’t afford a nanny.
Nobody can do it all alone. Zero, no people. You can’t physically be in the office and present for children. I wish people acknowledged this. Perhaps some work from home freelance gig, but regular office based employment is simply not possible.
I love my kids, and I know that when I’m on my deathbed I’ll never regret time spent with them and not at work. I’m working more from home these days which helps, and I’m trying to go part time. Funnily enough, I’m still more productive that most of the people there, but I cannot exist in two places simultaneously and if I have to pick, I’ll rank my career and go get my kids from school and cook them dinner.
 
At this rate Africans, Jeets, and Asians (mostly Chinese) will rule the world. I mean it will be a shitty world, but one ruled by them nonetheless. How are the western nations going to compete, or even exist in the world where Jeet's wife will shit out 5 more jeets while you MIGHT have one kid?

How much does being a "strong independent woman" and "make green line go up forever" matter when there's nothing left for you in a few decades?

Ofc the solution isn't to become like Jeet, but what we're doing now ain't much better in the long run.
 
I remember my aunt, who is a boomer, telling me about how when she was younger her income was not counted when she and her first husband bought their first house. It was entirely based on his income. Coincidentally houses did not cost 500k when they bought their first house.
 
This is the very start of a dark era where society moves from catering to boomers to catering to bitter childless millenials.
We're going to see a lot of 'gnashing of teeth' over this and other issues, but it will all be an excuse to double-down on insane policies.
People have absolutely no clue how screwed social dynamics are going to be over the next few decades.
 
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