The Final Fantasy Thread

I always took the huge materia thing as Avalanche just being wrong. The heroes being wrong, making mistakes, being manipulated by the bad guys, etc, was a major theme in the game and I thought it added a lot of flavor without being too distracting. Cid had just taken over the party and every one of his calls was bad because he was reacting to his long-burning hate of Shinra and wasn't paying attention to the big picture.

Also, Cloud was always a pretty-boy twink. He was a pretty enough boy to convince a literal whoremonger that he was a bigger babe than Tifa and Aeris if he could get the right wig and clothing. He's a literal trap.
 
Disc 2 does kind of have a bait and switch once Cloud leaves the party. When Tifa first wakes up in Junon and Barret and her are just hanging out with Shinra I initially thought it was gonna be one of those awkward team ups of people that have every reason to hate each other; but Meteor is just bigger than that. The game ditches the concept almost immediately but it would have been cool.

I do like the idea that the whole huge materia thing was just Cid being a giant asshole screaming "but that's MY rocket!".

Also, Cloud was always a pretty-boy twink. He was a pretty enough boy to convince a literal whoremonger that he was a bigger babe than Tifa and Aeris if he could get the right wig and clothing. He's a literal trap.
I always read it as the British comedy thing where an obviously unconvincing burly dude in drag is taken for a stunning women by everyone but a few key characters, but you make a convincing arguments. Unfortunately Square Enix's style also makes any male character that is supposed to be attractive look incredibly feminine. Just something you have to learn to live with when enjoying weeb media as a non weeb. Still wish he had a more round face like in the original art instead of a very triangular shape you almost only ever see in women.

The greatest mystery of that sequence though is why the quality of Cloud's crossdressing also affects Corneo's opinion about whether Aeris or Tifa is hotter. IIRC if you do the bare minimum he chooses Tifa, but if you hit a middling trap score he goes for Aeris.

We probably are overthinking it in general. FF7 did some damn good stuff for video game narratives but it still was full of weird wonky vidya game logic. Or logic that just only applies to Japanese culture. Like why the fuck did they let Red XIII think his father was a worthless coward for decades instead of just telling him "Hey he was actually a hero. Just y'know, keep away from the spooky ghost tunnel."
 
Are you sure that isn't from the train graveyard after Wal-Market?
Nope. SPOOKY GHOSTS come right when Cloud meets her.

1:10 if the timestamp doesn't work:


Also Tifa is going to be a part of the dress up section, 1:08

 
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Disc 2 does kind of have a bait and switch once Cloud leaves the party. When Tifa first wakes up in Junon and Barret and her are just hanging out with Shinra I initially thought it was gonna be one of those awkward team ups of people that have every reason to hate each other; but Meteor is just bigger than that. The game ditches the concept almost immediately but it would have been cool.

I do like the idea that the whole huge materia thing was just Cid being a giant asshole screaming "but that's MY rocket!".


I always read it as the British comedy thing where an obviously unconvincing burly dude in drag is taken for a stunning women by everyone but a few key characters, but you make a convincing arguments. Unfortunately Square Enix's style also makes any male character that is supposed to be attractive look incredibly feminine. Just something you have to learn to live with when enjoying weeb media as a non weeb. Still wish he had a more round face like in the original art instead of a very triangular shape you almost only ever see in women.

The greatest mystery of that sequence though is why the quality of Cloud's crossdressing also affects Corneo's opinion about whether Aeris or Tifa is hotter. IIRC if you do the bare minimum he chooses Tifa, but if you hit a middling trap score he goes for Aeris.

We probably are overthinking it in general. FF7 did some damn good stuff for video game narratives but it still was full of weird wonky vidya game logic. Or logic that just only applies to Japanese culture. Like why the fuck did they let Red XIII think his father was a worthless coward for decades instead of just telling him "Hey he was actually a hero. Just y'know, keep away from the spooky ghost tunnel."

For older games (or more abstract games), I try to take a scene/event as an entire object to be representative of the intent of the creators rather than the literal "This is exactly what occured". I'll sperg a bit on my take with Don.

Don Corneo runs a famous whorehouse in a poor area with lots of weirdos. The Honey Bee Inn is definitely not a straight-only joint; the weird possible-rape cloud goes through to get the sexy underwear or whatever from all the beefy men shows that sexual perversion is both normal and expected in the area. It makes sense that if a district is going to largely be known for sexual services that there will be some diversity in tastes.

Cloud gussies himself up but if he doesn't do a convincing enough job, Don isn't into the obvious man-in-a-dress schtick, but he's not offended by it because his business is sex and sometimes sex is weird. If you don't get all the necessary gear, Cloud isn't a trap, he's just a transvestite. The details of completing your trap-transformation aren't so important, but the actual interactions you have are telling:

- get the fanciest dress by selecting the right options. You're given no hints ahead of time, you just have to know what will be the most appealing to the Don.
- get the most convincing wig from local crossdessing gym perverts who challenge you to a feat of physical prowess. They know you're trying to trap someone and mock you for your loss by giving you a shitty wig (i always found this to be one of the funniest jokes in the whole game)
- get the diamond tiara by helping out a weirdo who lounges around complaining about other locals
- get the sexy perfume by giving someone with severe diarhea medication. I don't really get this one other than japanese propensity for poop jokes
- get the lingerie/bikini bottoms and makeup help by getting into the whorehouse and possibly being gangraped

Overall, I found this sequence to be demonstrating the pettiness and perverted nature of the whole Wall Market. This is important for Aeris' early characterization as it sets her far apart from the other native denizens of lower-sector Midgar inhabitants as well as Tifa who willingly went in alone to get intel for Avalanche. Don's choice doesn't just reflect his tastes and Cloud's pretiness, but also represents whether or not the player really understands Midgar itself. This is also the only freeroaming you get in Midgar and is the only sequence that isn't focused on Shinra; it's meant to setup the characterization of Aeris, Cloud and Tifa's eventual love "triangle".

From what I've seen of the remake, they are holding true to the intent behind the scenes, but I do hope they don't reduce the weirdness at all. In the original Aeris comes off as almost gleeful that cloud was getting pretty to trick the Don and enjoys herself all throughout the sequence. I really wonder if they'll keep the disturbing parts of the Honey Bee Inn.
 
After playing it a few times and seeing the aftermath of a huge space rocket hitting METEOR and it showing that aside from knocking some pieces off (and they were still tethered to the main mass), the intended message was apparently "whatever Shinra is intended is doomed to fail". The game delivers it poorly, but that seems to be the gist of it, and considering all the dick things they do to get their hands on the Huge Materia, pissing them off seems like the smart thing to do.

At the same time, the Shinra game plan for resolving things seems to have some objectively good ideas. Firing the Materia Cannon at the final boss' hidey hole does remove the barrier around it and trying to stop that is so stupid even the heroes don't question the logic of using it per se, they just question that batshit loon Hojo's followup plans.
I still kinda hope we get to see more of the Great Sephiroth Plan where Shinra kills the barrier and zerg rushes the cave with its army.

I'd like to give the party the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the huge materia problem. Shinra has a track record for overly wasteful solutions to problems that generally fail. Destroying a massive part of 2 cities to kill 5 guys, mako reactors that kill the planet, hell two of the huge materias they plan to get would result in the destruction of two towns Fort Condor and North Corel. I can see why the party would assume the huge materia would be better used in their hands to equal the playing field between the party and Sephiroth,Shinra, and the Weapons.

Its also possible Cid panicked and was just looking to do anything that seemed productive since he was appointed leader while taking a nap and didn't ask for this kind of authority.
 
I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind taking the Huge Materia from Shinra is that they would potentially be useful in the fight against Sephiroth, which they aren't from a story perspective but from a gameplay standpoint they grant access to the All-Type materials (ie the ones that let you use every command of that materia type) and the Bahamut-Zero materia which I could imagine would be pretty dope even if it seems a little mundane. Also "follow around Shinra and make sure they don't fuck up things even harder during the apocalypse" seems like a pretty sound goal when they can't even consider getting close to Sephiroth
 
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If the leaks are to be believed a big side quest to focus on are VR missions which has nothing to do with actual VR and they're just a tower dungeon where you fight through enemies and every 10 floors you get a break room and then continue onwards.

Nothing sounds all that bad yet, at least nothing a hex editor can't make a mundane task if shit gets too tedious or annoying.

But guess what is in the game?

Branching paths, looks like that changing the story really is going to happen.
 
focus on are VR missions which has nothing to do with actual VR and they're just a tower dungeon where you fight through enemies and every 10 floors you get a break room and then continue onwards
Could be neat. I like RPGs with sort of "endless dungeon"/"endless battle" mechanics. Sounds like it'll provide a decent bit more content to the game and hopefully give you some neat bonuses.

And I can only imagine its being put in because of Mementos in P5. And in case anyone forgot how P5 did:
Screenshot_20200104-182252.png
 
Could be neat. I like RPGs with sort of "endless dungeon"/"endless battle" mechanics. Sounds like it'll provide a decent bit more content to the game and hopefully give you some neat bonuses.

And I can only imagine its being put in because of Mementos in P5. And in case anyone forgot how P5 did:
View attachment 1083131
Yeah that's what I thought too, 12 Zodiac Age had something similar where you fought like 100 rounds of bosses and/or elite enemies in a row and the experience and items you earned transferred over to the main game. The gauntlet could also be fought at any time at any point in the game you just needed to get to the first save point and then you could kill shit in the gauntlet and get more powerful than you could normally. The enemy data would also transfer over and there were quite a few instances of the gauntlet versions of endgame bosses being easier than their actual in game counterpart.

They always sound more intimidating than they actually were, Mementos takes 15-20 minutes to walk through all randomly generated 80 floors. At a high enough level the enemies avoid you and some enemies only found in there you needed for causing specific battle debuffs needed for a few trophies.
 
Could be neat. I like RPGs with sort of "endless dungeon"/"endless battle" mechanics. Sounds like it'll provide a decent bit more content to the game and hopefully give you some neat bonuses.

And I can only imagine its being put in because of Mementos in P5. And in case anyone forgot how P5 did:
View attachment 1083131
If they are truly aiming for a weebs first rpg: shitmentos quality then its already ruined
 
For older games (or more abstract games), I try to take a scene/event as an entire object to be representative of the intent of the creators rather than the literal "This is exactly what occured". I'll sperg a bit on my take with Don.

Don Corneo runs a famous whorehouse in a poor area with lots of weirdos. The Honey Bee Inn is definitely not a straight-only joint; the weird possible-rape cloud goes through to get the sexy underwear or whatever from all the beefy men shows that sexual perversion is both normal and expected in the area. It makes sense that if a district is going to largely be known for sexual services that there will be some diversity in tastes.

Cloud gussies himself up but if he doesn't do a convincing enough job, Don isn't into the obvious man-in-a-dress schtick, but he's not offended by it because his business is sex and sometimes sex is weird. If you don't get all the necessary gear, Cloud isn't a trap, he's just a transvestite. The details of completing your trap-transformation aren't so important, but the actual interactions you have are telling:

- get the fanciest dress by selecting the right options. You're given no hints ahead of time, you just have to know what will be the most appealing to the Don.
- get the most convincing wig from local crossdessing gym perverts who challenge you to a feat of physical prowess. They know you're trying to trap someone and mock you for your loss by giving you a shitty wig (i always found this to be one of the funniest jokes in the whole game)
- get the diamond tiara by helping out a weirdo who lounges around complaining about other locals
- get the sexy perfume by giving someone with severe diarhea medication. I don't really get this one other than japanese propensity for poop jokes
- get the lingerie/bikini bottoms and makeup help by getting into the whorehouse and possibly being gangraped

Overall, I found this sequence to be demonstrating the pettiness and perverted nature of the whole Wall Market. This is important for Aeris' early characterization as it sets her far apart from the other native denizens of lower-sector Midgar inhabitants as well as Tifa who willingly went in alone to get intel for Avalanche. Don's choice doesn't just reflect his tastes and Cloud's pretiness, but also represents whether or not the player really understands Midgar itself. This is also the only freeroaming you get in Midgar and is the only sequence that isn't focused on Shinra; it's meant to setup the characterization of Aeris, Cloud and Tifa's eventual love "triangle".

From what I've seen of the remake, they are holding true to the intent behind the scenes, but I do hope they don't reduce the weirdness at all. In the original Aeris comes off as almost gleeful that cloud was getting pretty to trick the Don and enjoys herself all throughout the sequence. I really wonder if they'll keep the disturbing parts of the Honey Bee Inn.
I hope that they add an independent (purple) "Bust Size+" materia that Cloud can use for that scene, and can later be given to Tifa for people who like a more "classic Tifa" look. Come on, you know that materia like that would be a big seller for Shinra, it would fit the scene, and it would allow different groups of players to have their varying preferences for visual presentation both catered to in a well-justified manner. (But on the bad side, it would enable Tumblr gender weirdoes to have their "_____ is BRAVE AND STUNNING TRANSWOMAN" headcanons catered to.)
 
If the leaks are to be believed a big side quest to focus on are VR missions which has nothing to do with actual VR and they're just a tower dungeon where you fight through enemies and every 10 floors you get a break room and then continue onwards.

Ah the Deep Dungeon from FF14.
 
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If the leaks are to be believed a big side quest to focus on are VR missions which has nothing to do with actual VR and they're just a tower dungeon where you fight through enemies and every 10 floors you get a break room and then continue onwards.

Nothing sounds all that bad yet, at least nothing a hex editor can't make a mundane task if shit gets too tedious or annoying.

But guess what is in the game?

Branching paths, looks like that changing the story really is going to happen.

>Branching paths that continue the story different ways based on your decisions

Oh no no no. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifteen times, shame on me.
 
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I hope that they add an independent (purple) "Bust Size+" materia that Cloud can use for that scene, and can later be given to Tifa for people who like a more "classic Tifa" look. Come on, you know that materia like that would be a big seller for Shinra, it would fit the scene, and it would allow different groups of players to have their varying preferences for visual presentation both catered to in a well-justified manner. (But on the bad side, it would enable Tumblr gender weirdoes to have their "_____ is BRAVE AND STUNNING TRANSWOMAN" headcanons catered to.)

I'd rather see 'costume' materia that let you change the character's appearance in battle, possibly in story mode like in ffxv. Bikinis and speedos are the best fan service.

In FFXV I made Noctis look like an aging lesbian gym coach and it made the later story scenes a lot easier to get through.
 
I'd rather see 'costume' materia that let you change the character's appearance in battle, possibly in story mode like in ffxv. Bikinis and speedos are the best fan service.

In FFXV I made Noctis look like an aging lesbian gym coach and it made the later story scenes a lot easier to get through.
I do recall there being some announcement that you can customize Cloud's appearance somewhat, and that led to speculation about using his girl appearance outside of the story moment.

No idea if that's going to apply to other characters though.
 
I certainly hope so, imagine every dramatic showdown between Cloud and Sephiroth being with Cloud's "pretty whore" version- Sephiroth is just a misogynistic transphobe.

I want to take barret on a gold saucer date with lady-whore cloud. Please let this be an option.
Let me take Red XIII so I can become the ultimate degenerate.
 
- get the sexy perfume by giving someone with severe diarhea medication. I don't really get this one other than japanese propensity for poop jokes

That's a bit of a mind puzzle. You get the perfume from someone having trouble in the bathroom by giving them something out of a vending machine, and your choices are deodorant, digestive, and disinfectant.

I remember screwing that up as a kid because you're trying to pretty yourself up for Don, so I chose deodorant, not really thinking about why I was giving it to the guy in the bathroom. Digestive gets you the best perfume.
 
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Yeah that's what I thought too, 12 Zodiac Age had something similar where you fought like 100 rounds of bosses and/or elite enemies in a row and the experience and items you earned transferred over to the main game. The gauntlet could also be fought at any time at any point in the game you just needed to get to the first save point and then you could kill shit in the gauntlet and get more powerful than you could normally. The enemy data would also transfer over and there were quite a few instances of the gauntlet versions of endgame bosses being easier than their actual in game counterpart.

They always sound more intimidating than they actually were, Mementos takes 15-20 minutes to walk through all randomly generated 80 floors. At a high enough level the enemies avoid you and some enemies only found in there you needed for causing specific battle debuffs needed for a few trophies.
I liked the end game dungeons in FF 15 including the 100 room one where items were disabled and to get to it you had to go down the longest base game dungeon. Its nice to have that sort of end game content but I hope that the remake lets you continue the game after the story so its not like in FF7 where if you do all the side content and Weapons you just stomp Sephiroth into the dirt because you've become so strong.
 
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