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That's an opinion you can have mate. It's wrong, but it's allowed.
The Final Fantasy Thread
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- Dec 16, 2019
I always thought Amano's art was overrated.
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- Mar 29, 2018
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FF14 actually did a few boss fights with Amano's style.
It was the last couple fights for the Alphascape Omega dungeon
It was the last couple fights for the Alphascape Omega dungeon
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- May 26, 2020
Somewhat old post, but going back to the FF6 discussion this guy is actually an experienced professional translator. He was also behind many fan translations including Mother 3, which is absolutely top notch for a fan localization. I agree with him about GBA being the best overall translation. Seriously, his breakdown could be best summarized by saying "SNES sucks but it has charm, fan translation outright sucks, GBA pretty much fixes everything and tries to keep some of the SNES charm".
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- Mar 25, 2020
I would like to tell everyone that Idolmaster PS4 is made in Unreal.
Even if the supposed "cel-shading" isn't "supported" in Unreal, there are so many ways to cheat that look, like flat color shaders and lighting with no decay. Guilty Gear managed their shading by manipulating the mesh's vertex normal animation. There are many ways to achieve the anime-look, the question is always, is it worth the time and effort.
Even if the supposed "cel-shading" isn't "supported" in Unreal, there are so many ways to cheat that look, like flat color shaders and lighting with no decay. Guilty Gear managed their shading by manipulating the mesh's vertex normal animation. There are many ways to achieve the anime-look, the question is always, is it worth the time and effort.
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- Apr 19, 2019
And notice the humans don't look anything remotely like how Square has pushed the Final Fantasy look or nomura's paintings.
They look like SMT rejects or Crow City of Angles 4.
Idolmaster's IIRC was done by having the textures be animated. Usually the faces were blank with an animated texture on it. The Mouths are usually 3d modeled but there's usually a bunch of alternates made that have their own blendshapes/morph targets just incase you need something to look right at a specific angle. Stuff like that is usually part of the rig itself but it's usually hidden.
There's also a way of doing the eyes by having a white pit and the iris be a seperate object that casts no shadow, you can also alternatively use a curved plane for the same effect eith the iris being a seperate child object with constraints.
The thing is that would be way different that trying to ape a nomura painting because you need to get very specific with textures and stuff needs to look like a painting but also be able to move. You're then leaning heavily on subdivision modeling programs to get the right look so a skin texture would look like it was made with paint. This would need to be combined with post effects because you're not going to properly be able to animate something like that by hand and having that sequence be assigned to an object. Post effects are what use lots of processing, so getting a moving painting in 3 dimensions without it looking like a blurry mess is a big ordeal.
Vanillaware does 2D games specifically because of how much a pain in the ass it would be to get their signature style moving in 3 dimensions and looking good. Stylized 3d models use optical illusion techniques for many things. People who are trained in making realistic models can have trouble adjusting to make stylized characters because thjere's different types of perspective references you're going to need to use compared to what realistic models tend to use. It's a very different process despite using the same programs.
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- Sep 23, 2019
It's worth pointing out that the humanoids are explicitly meant to be robotic simulations of life. As in, definitely not human.
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- Mar 25, 2020
The only thing I can remember using animated textures for faces is Siren. swapping textures is usually used by many games like Atelier, and they stopped doing that when Atelier reached PS4.
Ok, for the sake of clarity, I'll explain it with a Idolm@ster model
>inb4 its Starlight Stage, so it uses Unity, therefore it doesn't count. All the concepts are still the same.
Here's Uzuki, in untextured form.
quite gnarly, isn't it?
Here's inside her brain, you can see there's a mouth modeled, with a tongue.
if I put the textures in a simple anistropic shader, it looks eww...
But if I put in the textures in a simple flat solid color shader, oooh, my waifu
we're gonna duplicate the 3d model, then enlarge it a little and flip the normals and, ta-dah~~! there's that anime outline over the 3d model (I haven't made a huge effort to make it look better, I am not being paid to do this)
TL; DR:
Shaders do the heavy work to achieve the look. everything can be done, cel-shading for games is easy. Even if the engine doesn't supposed to support it, there's so many ways to acheive the look. the only question is how far are you willing to make the effort to do it.
Ok, for the sake of clarity, I'll explain it with a Idolm@ster model
>inb4 its Starlight Stage, so it uses Unity, therefore it doesn't count. All the concepts are still the same.
Here's Uzuki, in untextured form.
quite gnarly, isn't it?
Here's inside her brain, you can see there's a mouth modeled, with a tongue.
if I put the textures in a simple anistropic shader, it looks eww...
But if I put in the textures in a simple flat solid color shader, oooh, my waifu
we're gonna duplicate the 3d model, then enlarge it a little and flip the normals and, ta-dah~~! there's that anime outline over the 3d model (I haven't made a huge effort to make it look better, I am not being paid to do this)
TL; DR:
Shaders do the heavy work to achieve the look. everything can be done, cel-shading for games is easy. Even if the engine doesn't supposed to support it, there's so many ways to acheive the look. the only question is how far are you willing to make the effort to do it.
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- Apr 19, 2019
The black outline you usually assign the property to the camera now which will trace all the surrounding objects, the flipped normals on an slightly enlarged model can kind of fuck with shit in unintended ways at least with what I've done with it. The bends in the arms and legs tends to be the most noticiblebecause you still have to do the envelopes for it, for facial closeups it's fine but if you're doing full body that's when it rears it's head with problems. Also stuff like aprons and other long flowing clothes you'll have intersecting polys more frequently.
The one drawback of the camera tracing stuff is that at a certain distance it will either have all the objects be all black in the distance or not render right.
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- Joined
- Mar 25, 2020
These stuff have been solved in years. If you have been taught by a teacher, go back to him and slap him in the face and ask for a refund, he didn't teach you properly. If self-taught, pls lurk more on a lot of 3d forums.
I am not going to explain it in huge details, and the post earlier is just a quick explanation. But to give a hint on how to solve on what you are agonizing about: The outline is sometimes part of the mesh itself or actually part of the texture
Richard29
kiwifarms.net
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- May 14, 2020
Ah thats kind of cool though!
Its just he seemed tad bit over there with "WHY PHANTOM BEAST
and not espers"But i do admire talent. I read on the webpage that they do admit to "Eidolon" being a thing atleast interms of the FF6 translation analysis
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- May 26, 2020
If you want to see a better and more organized version of his thoughts on FF6's translation I'd recommend seeing his written series on it:
edit: apparently I can't read lol. Still, I recommend his site in general.
edit: apparently I can't read lol. Still, I recommend his site in general.
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- Apr 19, 2019
I think you're mis-understanding my point.
There's multiple ways to achieve the same effect but none of them are exactly optimal(as compared to other styles).Personally I tend to paint my own textures rather than duplicating for the black outline because that jacks up the poly count.
Like even the new adobe programs are not exactly geared towards stylized 3d and at most with the default stuff you can get world of warcraft type painted textures. There's definitely a bias towards specific styles. especially when it comes to hair strand generation. Blender probably has one of the better hair sculpting tools, but other than that it's not exactly a standard. Extruding along curves for specific types of bangs isn't an ideal substitute. Maya's default hair tools are generally crap but those are also geared towards realistic looking hair and not stylized.
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- Mar 25, 2020
if that is actually what you believe, go back to your teacher and slap him again, he or she ripped you off with your tuition. tris doesn't even eat a lot of ram. even a 100k tris character would only eat 16 kbs of ram. its the maps, shaders, ai pathing and executions is what eats the ram.
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- Apr 19, 2019
It's less about teachers and more about bosses.
Certain places just tend to like stuff done certain ways. The few instances where a black outline was needed they just suggested I paint my own or apply it in post and don't duplicate, it's roughly the same amount of effort for either since you just trace the UV map outline. For my own personal stuff I'll be more elaborate and experiment.
They don't necessarily teach stylized 3d modeling in schools you're lucky if you can get a specialized course in rendering because those almost always get cut and never fill the minimum student count.
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- May 25, 2013
I’m about to start Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age. This will be my first experience with the game. Any pointers or suggestions?
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- Apr 19, 2019
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- Sep 7, 2016
wtf dude, a 100k character is going to take up way, way, way more memory than 16kb, that's excluding UVs and triangle lists. Just run the numbers on that, please. Whoever taught you should get the the firmly handshake, as a pretense to deliver a knee to the balls while you scream 'you failed me'.
You're overly harsh, and wrong, talking to that other dude @Marissa Moira