Arguable. Zack did situps. Cloud does situps. I'll agree that with how little we actually got from Zack back at the time, it's hard to characterize him much, but Cloud certainly ripped off more than just his achievements. Not to mention, Cloud hears a mysterious voice in his head, presumably from the lifestream ("Watch out! That's no normal reactor!") from pretty early on, which could be easily surmised to be Zack. It is Cloud pretending to be Zack, no question about that, but how much influence Zack actually has is anyone's guess.
I agree it certainly makes more sense if we froze time back in 1997 but that's why it's worth pointing out this theory only gained traction once people became invested in Crisis Core's story.
Moreover Cloud's persona is more or less what Cloud thought a cool badass would be like. Standoffish, curt, etc. All things he exhibited as a child as well. Keep this in mind for my next part...
I really disagree for the above reason. As I think this way strips out too much agency and character from Cloud. And also from the more important of the two girls in the process.
Again, Cloud is 95% backstory and 5% shocking twists. His backstory is so heavy he has a mental breakdown when trying to move past it and needs some time. All his characterization is in the past or him putting on an act for his buddies.
And, it devalues her death as a moment of significance to him. Are those actually his feelings now? And if they are were they under a false pretense of her loving him sincerely? These are not good questions to be asking about that scene imo.
Now, I know most people would cry if an anime pretty boy with an outrageously long sword lethally stabbed their gaming buddy, or their regular bartender, or their dentist. Romantic involvement is not required, death is very dramatic and sad and all those things regardless.
I think the death battle of the two girls is actually better. Going off of the original since that's finished and more coherent we have a situation where Cloud's desire to save people. obtain recognition as a hero, and so on is realized very early on in his interactions with Aeris. And later we learn that these feelings were initially born from Tifa, who also had fantasies of being rescued that are again visited upon another girl before then. Yes it's a corny love triangle but there are deep character insights at play there. And from Aeris' point of view it is Cloud who actually puts her on a course with her own destiny. She starts of depending on him as a bodyguard. something mired in video game tropes about how girls in pink dresses ought to be treated, but later leaves him to do the most consequential thing anyone in the plot does. This is why her death and Cloud's reaction to it are still tragic even though she's not really gone and is in fact reunited with Zack. Because ultimately, in universe and without, she was written around her relationship to Cloud.
And they'd be tragic even if they weren't implied to be banging. Death is not hard to make tragic. Nothing short of a cartoon anvil squashing her flat could have killed the sadness. That experience is just gone, if nothing else!
You could say the same with Tifa. Her story doesn't require romance and could be easily edited not to have it.
Absolutely true. You could have had Aeris as the sole romantic lead, even. You could have just not had Tifa, but they had to flesh out Cloud's backstory, supposedly. And the extra heroine thing that you mentioned.
The reason, if you don't know, for the love triangle is that initially there was no Tifa. Or at least Tifa wasn't a playable character. There was just Aeris, and Aeris was written to be a romantic foil to Cloud. Then they decided to kill her off but didn't want there to be no other heroine.
And there's also the fact that while the story and emotions of Cloud could be done without romance to Aeris they'd feel very tacky without romance. His eulogistic monologue, his wanting closure for his failure (which is in the original game as well), and the way in which they manipulate the player into imbuing the Pink Princess with that kind of gravitas are all dependent on them being more than friends.
This might admittedly just be me, but when someone's business card says "Aeris Gainsborough, last living Ancient, savior of the universe, conjurer of Holy, Cloud's current squeeze" I'm probably gonna focus my attention on the whole savior of the universe thing. She sounds like a person worth eulogizing and you'd be entirely entitled to feel bad over her death. I mean, Cloud just fucked up bodyguarding the savior of the universe. He SHOULD feel bad. Same thing: I personally feel like losing the savior of the universe might be just a smidgeon more important than losing your gf.
Aeris' initial trust of Cloud was maybe helped by him resembling Zack but there's a limited extent that can run when he just isn't much like Zack beyond that. It just allows the developers to skip awkwardly bumbling around with these two when there's only so much time with one of them.
I'd argue it's less of an issue than Tifa responding best to Cloud's newfound coolness and having to learn that this isn't really him. I could only imagine Aeris would like a Cloud who is more forthright and less supercilious. I guess I just don't see the fire here.
'97 Tifa likes Cloud but has a problem putting it into words. The Gold Saucer date is all about that. Cloud and Aeris definitely have a more meaningful and deeper relationship. Aeris is clearly the romantic lead the entire time leading up to her death. Aeris admitting that she just doesn't know Cloud and that she's searching for him during the gondola ride is definitely a breakthrough, but she dies immediately afterwards, they don't get to explore how their relationship is changing, Aeris is reunited with Zack and Tifa steps up to take care of a broken Cloud. Their relationship takes pretty clear romantic undertones after that, but you know, world ending and all that.
Same thing happened in X. During this period Squeenix just loved their romantic false leads. For 90% of the game you're encouraged to think you can build up a relationship with whoever. Tidus straight up dreams about both girls at one point. Not to mention most of the interactions you have earlier on are with Lulu, with Yuna getting remarkably little screentime between the boat ride to Kilika and the temple of Djose. She gets kidnapped a lot, and every NPC you meet seems to love her, but she hardly talks to Tidus. Then the writing takes hold of the steering wheel and says "You know what, Tidus loves Yuna and all the moments you may have had with Rikku or Lulu are pointless because they just had underwater sex set to a ballad that sounds suspiciously like every other song in the game."
I feel much the same happens here. By the end it doesn't matter whether Aeris was a romantic lead or not because it never went anywhere due to getting stabbed. It doesn't negate that Cloud and Aerith had something, hell, it was a deeply romantic love, even. But in Aerith's own words: "You looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture... I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different... Cloud... I'm searching for you. I want to meet you." This is: I don't even know you and I got around an hour of gameplay left before I become a corpse, so make sure you sell my gear and thanks for all the good times. Aeris looking forward to meeting Cloud doesn't mean she already loves Cloud. She's just ready to meet the real Cloud and look past what she sees of Zack in him. The amount of influence Zack holds over Aeris is important. Furthermore, Zack and Cloud share mannerisms, uniform, sword, mako eyes and spiky hair, albeit in tremendously different shape and color, but they're far from being each other's spitting image. Does Aeris literally see Zack through the remnants in Cloud where there really isn't any Zack-shaped stuff? Maybe they're just meant to look similar even though they don't. Maybe Aeris is secretly a Hitman NPC and only distinguishes people based on their clothing. Nevermind that hulking bald French Maid holding two handguns, she's probably just gonna do some aggressive dusting.
It all comes down to just how much influence Zack holds over Cloud. Post CC, this would be a great deal. In '97, this would be at the very least a not insignificant amount. Again, gestures, achievements, personality, and having a sharp instinct manifest itself as a voice in Cloud's head: Even in the OG game, Cloud definitely did not leave his copying of Zack at doing squats and claiming they had the same professional trajectory. Is a relationship built on being the walking talking living legacy of your dead war buddy while you're an amnesiac Sephiroth clone valid? Is Aeris essentially taking advantage of a mentally diminished man? Her having a type was just a happy coincidence? How much of a hand does fate play in all this? After all, their meeting was nothing short of a miracle: Cloud falls down from the sky into a bed of flowers, survives, and gets to meet her all in one beautiful coincidence.
And I don't agree the love triangle is comparatively small by the end.
Compared to, y'know, the negligible event of the world getting literally pancaked by a Meteor. We'll have to call that one a matter of opinion I suppose.
Maybe the triangle part of it is but...
One part of the triangle got shishkebab'd. The triangle no longer exists. Unless Cloud is willing to pay the fine for necrophilia in this part of Tamriel.
it feels like a pretty immoderate thing. People saying "it's just Zack's influence" really are dismissing how the relationship is used in the game itself. It's much more consequential than even his relationship to Tifa.
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