The Gamecube controller was unfairly criticized and is actually one of the most ergonomic and well-designed controllers ever made

[wtfNeedSignUp]

In the end the Dual Shock won because it's the most generic and ergonomic. Pretty much every modern controller is based on it.

Let's all agree that the Switch controller is the worst.

Can it even be called a controller? You either have the unusable mini controllers, the entire handheld package that is retardedly big or the combination of the mini controllers who are an incredibly uncomfortable sphere. You either have to suffer or buy a third party controller.

 

[augment]

"Boy I sure do miss my PS dualshock's cramped small size and abominable d-pad"
Is what I never find myself thinking.

 

[ZMOT]

It seems the Xinput spec was specifically designed to hamstring anything that isn’t an Xbox controller. I wonder what flight sim enthusiasts think of Xinput vs Dinput because they always seem to have setups with a gorillion knobs and buttons and other gizmos.

afaik they just go with directinput which already did pretty all of xinput, MS just wanted their own little consolecuck api (alongside GFWL etc.).
directinput is still around, it's what the dualshock uses (there's no official xinput support unless you use ds4windows, steam etc.), game devs just need to include it. most do these days, but still keep feature set based on xinput. sim devs knowing how much those accessories are important for their customers probably pay extra attention.

"Boy I sure do miss my PS dualshock's cramped small size and abominable d-pad"
Is what I never find myself thinking.

do you out your index fingers on the shoulders or the triggers?
it makes a big difference, that's why sony won the ergonomic retard trophy for life trying to force everyone on triggers.

 

[George Lucas]

afaik they just go with directinput which already did pretty all of xinput, MS just wanted their own little consolecuck api (alongside GFWL etc.).
directinput is still around, it's what the dualshock uses (there's no official xinput support unless you use ds4windows, steam etc.), game devs just need to include it. most do these days, but still keep feature set based on xinput. sim devs knowing how much those accessories are important for their customers probably pay extra attention.


do you out your index fingers on the shoulders or the triggers?
it makes a big difference, that's why sony won the ergonomic retard trophy for life trying to force everyone on triggers.

I put mine in-between.

 

[Coldgrip]

More like gaycube controler.

 

[Enig]

More like gaycube controler.

more like your mom gaycube

 

[Pepe Cortisona]

It might be that I am getting older, but I have the problem that no matter which controller I use, my pinky and ring fingers on both hands go numb after a while. The first time I experienced that sensation was with the GC controller, when the console was relatively new.

I need to check if I still have my Duke somewhere. Despite it being chunky, I loved that thing.

 

[Slav Power]

Pretty much every modern controller is based on it.

Wrong. Nintendo's NES controller was the one that set the baseline for modern controllers.

D-pad, two utility buttons and two action buttons. When this got released, everyone was copying this concept left and right, because this was the best concept.


The SNES was a natural evolution of this concept. Two additional action buttons, and the first time we saw bumper buttons.


You can deny it all you want, the PS1 controller is just a legally distinct SNES controller. The iconic PlayStation D-pad was the result of them getting around Nintendo's patents. PlayStation exists thanks to Nintendo in more ways than just the failed SNES CD add-on. The only evolution that got introduced here was the second bumper row.


And here is the ground zero of the analog stick debacle. It all began because Sony just slapped them under their legally distinct SNES controller to make it simple and cheap. And Nintendo still beat them with the Nintendo 64 being the first console with an analog stick. Sony only added a second one that solved the issue of wonky 3D camera controls.

The only thing that's missing on the DualShock that's the staple of every modern controller (except the Switch one) are the analog triggers. But Sony wasn't the first to add those, it was Sega with the Dreamcast. Microsoft would later copy those in The Duke alongside the staggered analog sticks, and Nintendo would come up with those hybrid trigger bumpers with the Gamecube. However Sony still had two bumper rows, and no, the pressure sensitive buttons didn't make them triggers. Only after Microsoft released the Xbox 360 a year before the PS3 was when Sony added those.

So no, Sony's design wasn't the first and it certainly wasn't the last. Modern controllers are most importantly derivatives of Nintendo's designs, with Sony's biggest addition being the second bumper row and the second analog stick. In the end, modern controllers were based on everything that Nintendo, Sega, Sony and Microsoft came up with on the brink of the new millenium.

 

[George Lucas]

@Slav Power The Sega 3D Pad had analogue triggers before the Dreamcast.

There is a very subtle difference between SFC and DualShock face buttons. The DS forms a perfect cross. The SFC is spaced wider horizontally. This makes it easier to reach X from B without crossing any other buttons. Y and A can more easily be pressed at the same time as B. Makes a significant difference for the Super Mario Bros. series.

 

[Slav Power]

The Sega 3D Pad had analogue triggers before the Dreamcast.

I got a technicality wrong, Sega was still the first to introduce analog triggers and Microsoft was the first to have them alongside bumpers.

There is a very subtle difference between SFC and DualShock face buttons.

It does not fucking matter in this context. It's still four face buttons. I'm arguing the evolution of the general layout and inputs, not the differences in ergonomics. My point still stands that the PS1 controller was just an iteration of the SNES controller, and the biggest innovation Sony has introduced was the second analog stick, and because I just remembered, clickable analog sticks.

@wtfNeedSignUp's argument was that all modern controllers are derivatives of the DualShock, I've presented the opinion that it wasn't nearly as influential as he made it out to be, as Nintendo was the one that laid out the main foundation, Sony only iterated on it and they weren't the ones that had the last say on the matter.

In fact, I'd say that Microsoft's Xbox 360 controller was more influential, since Nintendo had clear inspirations from it than they had from the DualShock.


The Wii U Pro controller has adapted the same grip and general shape as the X360 controller, albeit with their own analog stick layout that differs from the rest, and the Switch Pro controller is just Nintendo's Xbox One controller, full stop.

Basically, there was no clear cut "winner" in controller design. It's all fanboy elitism, because ultimately every company copies design ideas from each other, that's just how things have been since forever.

 

[George Lucas]

I got a technicality wrong, Sega was still the first to introduce analog triggers and Microsoft was the first to have them alongside bumpers.

It does not fucking matter in this context. It's still four face buttons. I'm arguing the evolution of the general layout and inputs, not the differences in ergonomics. My point still stands that the PS1 controller was just an iteration of the SNES controller, and the biggest innovation Sony has introduced was the second analog stick, and because I just remembered, clickable analog sticks.

@wtfNeedSignUp's argument was that all modern controllers are derivatives of the DualShock, I've presented the opinion that it wasn't nearly as influential as he made it out to be, as Nintendo was the one that laid out the main foundation, Sony only iterated on it and they weren't the ones that had the last say on the matter.

In fact, I'd say that Microsoft's Xbox 360 controller was more influential, since Nintendo had clear inspirations from it than they had from the DualShock.
View attachment 5953403
View attachment 5953407
The Wii U Pro controller has adapted the same grip and general shape as the X360 controller, albeit with their own analog stick layout that differs from the rest, and the Switch Pro controller is just Nintendo's Xbox One controller, full stop.

Basically, there was no clear cut "winner" in controller design. It's all fanboy elitism, because ultimately every company copies design ideas from each other, that's just how things have been since forever.

Omg chill the fuck out. I’m not challenging you. I’m just correcting your mistake and my comments on the SFC face buttons have nothing to do with your post. I literally agree with you that the DualShock is an SFC controller with sticks and extra buttons tacked on with little thought.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Wrong. Nintendo's NES controller was the one that set the baseline for modern controllers.

That's pretty retarded dude. Ain't going to lie.

Modern controllers are 4 triggers, 4 face buttons, D-pad and 2 analog sticks in a U like ergonomic design. Other companies like Nintendo might mald about it and slightly alter things around but in the end it's the standard for more than 20 years.

 

[Slav Power]

That's pretty retarded dude. Ain't going to lie.

Modern controllers are 4 triggers, 4 face buttons, D-pad and 2 analog sticks in a U like ergonomic design. Other companies like Nintendo might mald about it and slightly alter things around but in the end it's the standard for more than 20 years.

Before the NES, video game controllers were all joysticks and numpads. The NES controller set the baseline of a handheld controller with directional controls on the left, action controls on the right, and utility controls in the middle, where you hold it with two hands and use your thumbs to use it. The SNES controller set the baseline of four face buttons and bumpers being the bare minimum. The N64 controller has set the precedent that the future of directional controls is in the analog stick, plus it introduced haptic feedback with the Rumble Pak. And dare I say, the Virtual Boy was the first to have an ergonomic controller design, but failed miserably in every other aspect.

The NES controller was the baseline from which every other controller has improved upon, though it was Nintendo that kept improving their design in a way that made so much sense that everyone else was copying them, including Sony and their totally-not-a-SNES-controller. Sony's biggest contribution was that second row of bumpers and that second analog stick, but the DualShock is not the baseline by a long shot, because again, they weren't the first innovation and they weren't the last.

Why is it that modern controllers have analog triggers but the DualShock didn't have them until the third iteration? Why is it that Microsoft's and Nintendo's controllers use the staggered layout pioneered by Sega when the DualShock had the sticks below? Why is it that modern controllers have the home button when the DualShock didn't have it?

The Xbox 360 controller had a bigger influence on modern controllers than the DualShock. It was the controller that set the baseline that a controller should have two digital bumpers and two analog triggers, and it's the controller that set the baseline that a controller should have a home button to access the console's main menu. Not to mention that Microsoft's approach to ergonomics was simply better to Sony's DualShock that they've begrudgingly stuck with when they released the PS3 becuase Microsoft beat them to the punch with the X360 and the boomerang prototype was idiotic. Sony's gimmicks of pressure sensitive buttons and gyroscopic controls died out and they never brought anything revolutionary to the table after that addition of the second stick and the second bumper row, that Microsoft changed into analog triggers which is the current standard.

IMO you overstate the influence of the DualShock on modern controllers. It wasn't the first to innovate and it wasn't the last. In the end every modern controller is an iteration of everything Nintendo, Sega, Sony and Microsoft came up with before. They all were influencing each other in many ways.

Also:

Microsoft's 100 million dollar investment has perfected the modern controller and that's just an objective truth.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

Meanwhile nintendo releases the least ergonomic shit ever and you need a third party handle to even play the handhelds

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Before the NES, video game controllers were all joysticks and numpads. The NES controller set the baseline of a handheld controller with directional controls on the left, action controls on the right,

lol wat. What's the difference between the 2600 having a joystick on one side and a button on the other and the nes controller? Why give Nintendo the honor if you are arguing everything is just based on their design despite only sharing the basic concept of being built for a human with two arms and having buttons?

There's some ridiculous Nintendo cock sucking in the comment that can be summarized as "when Nintendo does it it's new, when Atari did it a decade before it didn't count". Every controller they did after the snes was at best mediocre and usually sucked hard.

The best argument you had is the 360 having a range of motion on the L2/R2 which is at least some sort of a step forward, though I'd still argue it's not a design change but just added sensitivity to an existing button.

 

[George Lucas]

lol wat. What's the difference between the 2600 having a joystick on one side and a button on the other and the nes controller? Why give Nintendo the honor if you are arguing everything is just based on their design despite only sharing the basic concept of being built for a human with two arms and having buttons?

There's some ridiculous Nintendo cock sucking in the comment that can be summarized as "when Nintendo does it it's new, when Atari did it a decade before it didn't count". Every controller they did after the snes was at best mediocre and usually sucked hard.

The best argument you had is the 360 having a range of motion on the L2/R2 which is at least some sort of a step forward, though I'd still argue it's not a design change but just added sensitivity to an existing button.

Atari joystick and the D-pad are totally different animals. I don’t know what you’re even trying to say. The D-Pad wasn’t a big deal? Literally everyone copied it.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I want to round up all the nerds in this thread and teargas them.

 

[Slav Power]

What's the difference between the 2600 having a joystick on one side and a button on the other and the nes controller?

Oh I don't know:

Everything? How braindead do you have to be to claim with a straight face that these two are exactly the same? At this point I believe you're either a) retarded or b) purposefully trolling, and if it's b) it's indistinguishable from a) as per the ages old rule:

I could write another paragraph of how these are not the same by a long shot, but at this point I think that's exactly what you want me to do, so I won't.

having a range of motion on the L2/R2

Yeah, it's called analog triggers. The DualShock had two rows of bumpers. It's a massive difference. One is just a button, the other is an entire analog mechanism. The pressure sensitive gimmick of the PS2 couldn't compare to a proper analog trigger.

There's some ridiculous Nintendo cock sucking in the comment that can be summarized as "when Nintendo does it it's new, when Atari did it a decade before it didn't count". Every controller they did after the snes was at best mediocre and usually sucked hard.

Okay, one last jab, I'll go down to your level since any chance for a meaningful discussion is out of the window with that asinine "2600 joystick = NES controller" take.

You're a Sonygger cocksucking faggot that you believe your faggy little console is so amazing, even though Nintendo saved gaming with the NES and without the SNES there would be no GayStation.

Enjoy having nigger dicks shoved in your face. Also you have no games lmfao

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Oh I don't know:
View attachment 5955546View attachment 5955545
Everything? How braindead do you have to be to claim with a straight face that these two are exactly the same? At this point I believe you're either a) retarded or b) purposefully trolling, and if it's b) it's indistinguishable from a) as per the ages old rule:
View attachment 5955553
I could write another paragraph of how these are not the same by a long shot, but at this point I think that's exactly what you want me to do, so I won't.

Yeah, it's called analog triggers. The DualShock had two rows of bumpers. It's a massive difference. One is just a button, the other is an entire analog mechanism. The pressure sensitive gimmick of the PS2 couldn't compare to a proper analog trigger.

Okay, one last jab, I'll go down to your level since any chance for a meaningful discussion is out of the window with that asinine "2600 joystick = NES controller" take.

You're a Sonygger cocksucking faggot that you believe your faggy little console is so amazing, even though Nintendo saved gaming with the NES and without the SNES there would be no GayStation.
View attachment 5955567
Enjoy having nigger dicks shoved in your face. Also you have no games lmfao

That's one autistic overreaction. I don't even see the sense in supporting any console developer these days since they are all absolutely awful, Nintendo included. Unless you've enjoyed the last 2 decades buying the same Pokemon/Fire Emblem games twice, as well as shilling for a company that is even more draconic over their IP than Disney.

I kinda want to point out that's my entire point is you doing a retarded comparison in the first place, but that was one autistic post. Even with the "I made you a wojak" unironic meme.

 

[Slav Power]

*words*