The Greatest Lie the Devil Ever Told....

[skykiii]

(Because this post wound up being lengthy, I decided to divide it into "sections" to make it more digestable)

PART ONE - The Limits of Humanity

On the internet, its always "the Elites are behind this," or "the Jews manipulated the culture," or "its Russian intervention." In the 1990s we used to hear "Government conspiracies" like in X-Files.

I never sat well with these theories. Regardless of if you put the Government, the Russians, the Jews, or the Legion of Doom in the driver's seat, they all have a couple of problems.

First, the group has to be both devious masterminds but also so fucking retarded they can't stop autists on an internet forum from figuring out their plan just by paying attention to trends in the world.

Second is that their ultimate design never makes any actual sense.... and most of the time they seem to not actually have one, except for some nebulous concept of "we get to live comfortably while other people get fucked." Which isn't a goal that takes a grand conspiracy to accomplish.

Third is kinda similar to the first thing in that these groups would have to have supernaturally tight control over every conceivable factor, the tall and the small, in order for their whole operation to not go belly up. At this point believers start going into the type of convenient BS explanations you often hear from superhero comic universes, when anyone who has ever read the novel Jurassic Park has a more realistic idea of how it should go.

PART TWO - Cognitive Failures

Let me be frank:

A lot of the problems in the world today are NOT any sort of human intelligence. The most "natural" explanation is its just chaotic social forces. Grassroots.

I think its more logical to assume the supernatural is at play.

This leads to another cognitive weakness I notice often in people.

Two, actually.

First is what I call the "mental cut-off switch." People will follow you up until a point, but the minute you use certain words or present certain ideas, its like they can't understand you... no matter how clear you're being.

I'm reminded of something Gary Gygax once said: "If you can imagine adventures involving elves, wizards, dragons, and eldritch gods, then why in blazes can you not imagine these all existing in a massive underground labyrinth?" I agree--if you bought into one premise then the others should be fine too, but for some reason it never seems to work that way.

This also ties into the title of this topic. After all, "The greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing the world he does not exist." We see it when people find it easier to believe in the shadowy cabal of men in business suits than they do to believe in spiritual energies affecting the world, even though the shadowy cabal is actually less logical for the reasons I previously stated.

The second problem I often have is that humanity seems to have trouble thinking beyond itself.

Take for example, most views of the afterlife, where its all very bureaucratic and run sort of like a business or a government.

I'm reminded of that scene in C.S. Lewis' The Silver Chair where the Witch tries to tell the kids that there is no outside world, that everything they describe is just a bigger version of a mundane object. "A lion is just a big cat. The sun is just a big lamp." I always had issues with this scene... but its absolutely right when describing most of humanity's view of the divine: its just humanity but surrounded by fluffy pink clouds.

What I mean is: if asked "what would a demon's motive for manipulating humanity be?" most of us would probably come up with something right out of a Marvel comic or a crappy anime. "Oh they're powered by souls." "Oh they wanna conquer the world like a fucking supervillain." "Oh there's this big war between God and the Devil coming" (a premise that is already kinda stupid since God is omnipotent and can not die, so what the fuck is Satan even gonna accomplish?)

PART THREE - The Casualties of Culture War

That said, I recently had a thought.

I was watching a Ben Shapiro video about the gender movement, and at one point he told the person "reality always wins."

I saw a similar statement echoed in the "why are trannies so stabby?" thread here on KF, and I'll admit I had a bit of a faith crisis.

I myself have a few "unrealistic" things I'm trying to accomplish. I want to time travel. I want to reverse aging. I want God to manifest on the physical plain. I want to travel into alternate timelines. I want to fly without wings.

Most of all, I want to prove that humanity is more than just fuck-monkeys and that the things we do actually are something greater and more important than glorified animal mate-seeking behaviors.

But now my own transphobia had led me to a moment where I felt like I was shitting on my own wants and desires.

And it made me realize something:

This last decade or so... its kind of made humanity retreat more and more into an "animal" mode of thought. We saw it early in the post-Gamergate era, where people were obsessed with things like "alphas" and "betas." We see it in the "Virgin vs Chad" meme. We see it in things like the rise of "Trad Wives" (put into a box and conveniently labeled!) and endless discussions that basically amount to reinforcing a sort of animal (or just as bad, a cog in a meat-machine) view of humanity and society.

And don't tell me that religious people are better--they're the people who boil religion and spirituality down to just an autistically strict set of rules that are devoid of context. They take the divine and make it a soulless machine.

And then I started to wonder:

What if that's the point?

What if this is exactly what the demons/spirits/space aliens/Biker Mice From Mars etc. want?

Or at the very least, its a convenient side effect of something else they are doing?

Cuz the thing about humanity is... well, a dog is always a dog, it doesn't even have the capability to think it could be anything but a dog. Same goes for a cat, or a bird, or a platypus, or a Brony. But a human being is only an animal by choice. We do, in fact, have the capability to be something else if we so choose. Heck our default state is already better than animal. "Return to Monkey" is entirely something we have to choose to do.

Admittedly, I'm kind of doing the same thing I just bitched about other people doing--assigning a comic book motive to supernatural forces. Cuz why the fuck would they care if we act like dogs or not? What do they get out of keeping us down?

*Shrug* maybe they just think it's funny. Who knows.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Before I end this post: I did come to peace with that statement by Shapiro that bothered me earlier, and found a way to reconcile his words with my dislike of trans-ness.

I don't agree that "reality always wins." In fact during a meditation I remembered a good reason to doubt that.

The thing is though, a modified version of his statement would be correct: "If you let reality make the rules, then reality always wins."

Because that's where trans people fail. Their method for altering biology is the scalpel and the pill bottle.

I daresay that if they transitioned through magickal means--even if the means was just intensely meditating until reality gave in and morphed them--then the results would actually be a net positive.

TL;DR ... Ummm... I'm actually not sure what a TL;DR for this post would be. Feel free to offer suggestions though.

 

[MTN Dew Rat]

Interesting to see how you think. It actually is really telling how much we want our feelings and desires to have dominion over reality, and the real question is, are we sometimes meant to value our feelings or point of view over cold, hard facts? If so, when?

One thing I love and hope for in the next life, is that God alone can both fully defeat but also fully define who you actually are. None of us actually knows what the truth about ourselves is until then.

 

[Mnutu]

Don’t OD on Hermes Trismegistus bro, he’ll sell you some snake oil to cure it.

 

[Hyperbolic Steroids]

On the internet, its always "the Elites are behind this," or "the Jews manipulated the culture," or "its Russian intervention." In the 1990s we used to hear "Government conspiracies" like in X-Files.

These actually fit in with your views quite easily if you consider every single one of these things to be agents of Satan (they are in a lot of cases). The suppression of the "goyim" and other "human cattle" would be their role they play and their rewards would be in the material realm, be it money from Mammon or other pleasures of the flesh or simply the vanity that comes with status.

First, the group has to be both devious masterminds but also so fucking retarded they can't stop autists on an internet forum from figuring out their plan just by paying attention to trends in the world.

I've always thought this argument was sub par because autists on an internet forum can't really do shit anyways so it's not like it even matters if they did "truly figure it all out". So long as the rest of the population views those autists as raving lunatics (they usually do) it won't affect anything. There are plenty of trends that have been relatively predictable yet still seem to catch the majority of normal people off guard.

The second problem I often have is that humanity seems to have trouble thinking beyond itself.

Take for example, most views of the afterlife, where its all very bureaucratic and run sort of like a business or a government.

This reminds me of Shelly Kagan's course on death. "You cannot imagine what it's like to be dead." It's hard to imagine something indescribable, something you've never witnessed. Naturally his course was about death itself and not an afterlife but he makes some good points that carry over to this, if you've only ever pictured yourself alive then the afterlife has unsurprisingly just been being alive in another plane of existence.

humanity is more than just fuck-monkeys

I would suggest that humanity can be more than just fuck monkeys but that's the power of free will. Most people are instead slaves to their own desires. Just look at the coomer epidemic for clear evidence of that.

And don't tell me that religious people are better--they're the people who boil religion and spirituality down to just an autistically strict set of rules that are devoid of context. They take the divine and make it a soulless machine.

I'd wager that a majority of religions have some pretty thoughtful moral codes put into play. Naturally some are better and less self serving than others. "Letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" applies here of course, when you're side stepping the rules based on a specific interpretation then you're not really adhering to what was intended contextually.

"If you let reality make the rules, then reality always wins."

I think Shapiro makes a decent point however (unfortunately) in that troons live in reality. Troons worship themselves almost as much as science so them trying to bend reality to their will is done with the only tools they/them posses: the scalpel and estrogen pill. Should a troon become spiritual they'd immediately dismiss their silly tranny ideology because they'd realize their time on this plane is fleeting and thus better spent doing something that isn't gooning to themselves.

Your TL;DR could be "the Jews and the elites etc are just agents of Satan and not many want to admit that because they love science." Take for example that things like racism and the like are now scientifically balanced around IQs and propensity to violence etc. Meanwhile the ancient Indian caste system is literally just that niggers should clean poop because they are spiritually unclean and bear their sins on their skins.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

First, the group has to be both devious masterminds but also so fucking retarded they can't stop autists on an internet forum from figuring out their plan just by paying attention to trends in the world.

False. Time and labor are scarce resources that need to be economized. From the fact that they have time masterminding it does not follow that they simultaneously have time to stop autists on an Internet forum.

Second is that their ultimate design never makes any actual sense.... and most of the time they seem to not actually have one, except for some nebulous concept of "we get to live comfortably while other people get fucked." Which isn't a goal that takes a grand conspiracy to accomplish.

Misleading. Power for power's sake is the most typical motivation, and most things tend to be excuses to grab that power. See things like the war on drugs, COVID lockdowns, or climate change hysteria. Most evil people are opportunists who will jump on any at least ostensibly acceptable bandwagon just to obtain more power.

Third is kinda similar to the first thing in that these groups would have to have supernaturally tight control over every conceivable factor, the tall and the small, in order for their whole operation to not go belly up.

Exactly. Which is why all of those operations do go belly up eventually. Although some are taking hundreds of years.

The most "natural" explanation is its just chaotic social forces. Grassroots.

Agree.

First is what I call the "mental cut-off switch." People will follow you up until a point, but the minute you use certain words or present certain ideas, its like they can't understand you... no matter how clear you're being.

Fuck "people" like that. Don't waste time with those unless you're certain that they can and want to overcome this mental handicap.

The second problem I often have is that humanity seems to have trouble thinking beyond itself.

Humanity A is not humanity A. Different people have different motivations, capabilities, and priorities.

I was watching a Ben Shapiro video about the gender movement, and at one point he told the person "reality always wins."

This is an absolute truth in the long run. You cannot permanently and irreversibly revoke natural order, any attempt to prolong aberrations will just make the eventual crash more brutal.


Regarding the topic, I wish to provide you with the following wise words to contemplate. I believe that they answer most of the beliefs you are trying to make sense of.

The most dangerous enemy is the one who can convince you he doesn't exist. To this ends, key members of the intelligentsia have gone to great lengths to convince educated people that there is no such thing as "evil". It's an interesting philosophical exercise that can allow a thinking person to contemplate deep concepts from a morally neural point of view, and can lead to some enlightening thoughts. But it all falls apart when you find out that while you were sipping your boutique coffee chatting with your brilliant and beautiful friends at the university, your wife was stopped on the street for a minor traffic violation, but then the cop beat her to death when she "resisted" and the cop "feared for his life", all the while your children were sitting in your automobile watching their mother die. In other words, the intelligentsia has deceived you and your philosophy stinks. The world contains evil humans who do evil deeds, and the vast majority of evil deeds are those done under the guise of authority.
Second only to convincing you that your enemy doesn't exist is convincing you that your enemy looks vastly different than he actually looks. This is a simple task, and is much easier to sell to a wider audience than just the self-appointed intellectual elite in their university halls. The main stream clergy make an incredibly comfortable living demonizing a wide array of normal human activities, while relying on guilt and ignorance to fill their congregations with the fear of eternal punishment for things that simply can't be called "evil" by any honest thinking person. So if we believe the State approved clergy, a drink of whisky, some mutual fun with your date, using a forbidden word in a sentence, wearing the wrong clothing, listening to the wrong music, keeping the details of your life private and out of the priest's ears, or simply earning money and keeping it for yourself, are all called evil and you are told they will push you down the Highway to Hell. Now let's all join that same impressive clergyman as he leads us in a solemn prayer for God to bless the brave troops as they rape, pillage, and burn the innocent in faraway lands. And let’s not forget to pray that God guides and protects our Great Leader, and fills him with wisdom as he decides which poor village he will incinerate this week! Perhaps that clergyman misunderstood the scripture that states; "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Before someone claims that I'm "Christian bashing" for calling out the corruption of clergy let me point out some others who are guilty of using this same method of bait-and-switch in the definition of evil. Almost every television cop show and almost every Hollywood movie drama portrays a cartoon version of evil that is either grossly wrong or intentionally deceptive. We see time and time again, lies spoon-fed to the masses that portray cartoon-evil villains threatening the innocent, held at bay only by the brave men and women of law enforcement. And evil villains in dark, dirty, foreign countries threatening a peaceful world, while the only thing that keeps them from enslaving humanity are the good super-spies with amazing abilities, fighting for freedom, justice, and the American way, or the brave American super-snipers who never kill the innocent. This story line is simply a re-hashing of the Great Man/Bogeyman myth, dressed up in a fancy wrapper and sold to yet another generation. If Joseph Goebbels could see modern media he would be both proud and pleased.
To understand evil you have to dissect authoritarians into three codependent, equally guilty groups; first the powerful, then the power enthralled, and finally the obedient. So first let's look at the powerful. They are the easy ones to pick on. They are the top tier leaders. The elite central bankers, the upper crust of the corporate world, the highest ranking intelligence officers, the highest ranking military officers, and finally the least powerful of the top tier; the political heads of state. These are the untouchables. With a few exceptions, these are positions that are handed down to the select, not earned by the deserving. These truly powerful people will do anything to anyone, including each other, to remain in power. They form and break alliances and as they do people in the lower ranks die, sometimes in quite large numbers. The one starkly striking thing about these elites is that they, for the most part, apparently believe the entire Great Man myth and view themselves as a kind of super-race destined to guide humanity, like something out of Mein Kampf or some 1920s eugenics handbook. Most of them believe in the hereditary right of ascension, and they practice it. That fact may be hard to believe, especially for Americans who have little or no respect for kings and royal families. But no matter what you or I may think, the important thing is that they believe and practice hereditary right of ascension with violent vigor and enthusiasm, and in doing so they justify any and all actions that they must take to maintain their power. They believe it is their responsibility, their destiny, and their divinely appointed burden to be in power, and they will incinerate millions without hesitation to fulfill that divine appointment. Individually they are not Hollywood movie monsters. They are kind to their pets and they love their mothers. They enjoy art and music and don't ever want to see another ugly war. They give incredible amounts of their wealth to charities, and yet so long as they breathe they will maintain their power structure, if it means burning their own houses to the ground. This is Acton’s Axiom; power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, displayed in its fullness.
Next, let us consider the power enthralled, and the other side of Acton’s Axiom, Buppert's Corollary; power attracts the corruptible. Those who want to dominate and are drawn to power are almost always enthralled with those who have power. These are typically the fiercely loyal fanatics, not to a cause, nation, or team, but their loyalty is to powerful individuals, and ultimately their loyalty is to their quest for their own power. On the outer surface, these people tend to appear more obviously evil, as their names are often associated with the kinds of crimes of the State that make the headlines and lead the news cycles. But like almost all criminals, they rarely consider themselves or their actions as evil. They have layers of mental hoops they jump through to justify their actions. They use collectivist excuses to justify killing the innocent, or destroying economies, and they almost always believe that what they are doing is for the greater good. And as a final level of faith in the State, they believe the double edged excuse; if the overall action really is bad their boss is to blame, but if the execution of the action is the part that is bad, their underlings should have refused the orders. By riding in the magic middle, they justify their evil by blaming the decision on those above them while blaming the action on those below them. These disgusting humans are incredibly dangerous.
Finally we come to the obedient, the patriotic, the ones bursting with national or cultural pride, or painted over in civic duty and esprit de corps. Although all categories of humans tend to have overlapping groups and it's almost never accurate to draw hard lines between people, you should strive to differentiate between the obedient, as described here, and the "neutrals" [...]. Neutrals typically are not successful in dirty jobs like killing, caging, destroying, extorting, and intimidating because their own set of morals cause them to object to such behavior. In cases where neutrals are forced to commit atrocities due to circumstances, they usually suffer mentally and emotionally, as they lack the coping mechanisms that the more obedient utilize. And that may be the easiest way to judge between neutrals and the obedient, as the more obedient seem to be well suited taking orders and committing atrocities. Some even relish in the deed, but even then they find ways of excusing their actions. However, once again, these are not cartoon monsters. They have families, they walk their dog, they get stuck in traffic, they have more debt than they want, they are very often church supporters, they may think cat videos are cute, but given the order they will kick in your door, kill your dog, and place a gun to your grandmother's head. Then when they have justified what they have done in their duty report, they will congratulate themselves for being a hero and go home to their children.
These very human, seemingly normal, every-day people are our enemies. The powerful will incinerate cities to maintain their power. Those enthralled with the powerful will justify that decision and pass the order to the obedient, who will not only obey but they will gleefully commit mass murder and brag about it in their old age. The most immediately dangerous individuals of the three groups are the obedient, but you can't win by fighting them because there is an endless supply of the obedient. You have to fight smart, and not based on the emotions of the moment. Remember, Henry Kissinger referred to the obedient as dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns. Hydarnes referred to the obedient as The Immortals because as soon as one died there was another fool waiting to step in and take his place. So, again, as much as it seems that the obedient should be our targets, and as much justified hate will be rightly aimed at the obedient in the coming years, we have to look beyond wasting resources and time attempting to engage the obedient directly, and find ways to touch the power enthralled, and eventually the untouchables. By doing so we break the chain of command, freeing the obedient so that they may choose to stop obeying.

Cc @Null because I also want you to be aware of the wisdom presented in this quote

 

[JustTheFaxcts]

And don't tell me that religious people are better--they're the people who boil religion and spirituality down to just an autistically strict set of rules that are devoid of context. They take the divine and make it a soulless machine.

That's one of the things Jesus came to condemn, anyone making faith into a set of autistic rules and rituals is just trying to manipulate others by pretending they have some special line to God. The Bible is literally where the negative connotation for acting "holier than thou" comes from (Isaiah 65:5), and blasts rituals, chants, and breaks down everything to love God and others. The law of Moses was created as a stumbling block, not as salvation itself (Romans 8:3, 9:32).

Most of all, I want to prove that humanity is more than just fuck-monkeys and that the things we do actually are something greater and more important than glorified animal mate-seeking behaviors.

You can't get there without faith. Without some higher source of morals it really is survival of the fittest. Spread your genes, accumulate power, fuck over everyone else as long as you don't get caught. Who cares, not like there is any sort of consequences?

The recent decline we're seeing is a recursive pattern, we see it throughout history. Judges has a succinct loop of this and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said it best what stating "Men Have Forgotten God", that's all there is to it.

In general though it sounds like you're an agnostic or atheist and trying to come up with some deeper meaning. Not trying to be at all rude, but look where that line of thinking is leading you. You are denying that there is actual evil, listening to 'people' like Ben Shapiro, and entertaining magick.

I would suggest that humanity can be more than just fuck monkeys but that's the power of free will. Most people are instead slaves to their own desires. Just look at the coomer epidemic for clear evidence of that.

Well said, people tend to default to Epicureanism, with positive feelings as the highest goal. Contrast that with Diogenes or Socrates who strived to fight pleasure and pursue virtue respectively. Even without Christ they had glimpses of the Good through study of the world around them.

I've always thought this argument was sub par because autists on an internet forum can't really do shit anyways so it's not like it even matters if they did "truly figure it all out". So long as the rest of the population views those autists as raving lunatics (they usually do) it won't affect anything. There are plenty of trends that have been relatively predictable yet still seem to catch the majority of normal people off guard.

Also a good point. If 99% of people follow their dopamine hits and in-group signalling it really doesn't matter what a few outcasts say. It's very hard to talk to most people about anything of substance, they get visibly uncomfortable and retreat. Instead they want to talk about some piece of media or political kayfabe. Talking about the underlying machinations at play is several bridges too far.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

People would rather an imaginary boogieman to blame for all their issues (always of the opposite political aisle), if the boogieman is also incompetent enough to be easily identified and/or acting against their own self interest then even better since it really hits that superiority-inferiority complex.

The idea that there's no one at the wheel and it's all powerful interest group, both easy to see and hidden, just acting greedily while the fate of the world is at stake is too scary of an alternative for most people to think.

 

[Male Idiot]

It is the jews. The devil's biggest lie was telling everyone he is the biggest bad guy. Douche really has to always be an attention whore.

Slomo is way worse. He doesn't have an end goal beside more profits. He judt wants infinite money+ , like an autist with Sonic spins, or an ork with Dakka.

It is a sissypussyian task. There will always be more shekels to collect.

 

[JustTheFaxcts]

People would rather an imaginary boogieman to blame for all their issues (always of the opposite political aisle), if the boogieman is also incompetent enough to be easily identified and/or acting against their own self interest then even better since it really hits that superiority-inferiority complex.

The idea that there's no one at the wheel and it's all powerful interest group, both easy to see and hidden, just acting greedily while the fate of the world is at stake is too scary of an alternative for most people to think.

No goyim child, there is no organized evil in the world. That is just your delusions, enjoy spirtual prison.

Spoiler: Hmmm, I wonder who could be behind this post?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I myself have a few "unrealistic" things I'm trying to accomplish.

Unrealistic is different than not comporting with reality. "Reality always wins" means you can't sprout wings and fly, or become a woman, or use psychic powers, not that you can't win the lottery or write a best-selling book; even if they're unrealistic they're possible.

Even time travel is theoretically possible, but becoming a woman isn't possible even with science fiction because you are not just a body but a consciousness, so even if you Ranma 1/2'd yourself you'd still be a man, just with a woman's body because you were born a man. You wouldn't be a dog if I somehow transplanted your consciousness in a dog's body, you're human.

So yeah, wanting to fly without wings would be tranny tier, but even then not quite because you know you're not able to and are not currently doing so, unlike trannies who say they are currently women. Now, if you insisted I admit you're in a state of wingless flight despite being grounded then you'd be on their level. And even THEN you'd still be better off than them unless you were trying to foist your dangerous wingless flight lunacy onto small children like they do their transgenderism.

But now my own transphobia had led me to a moment where I felt like I was shitting on my own wants and desires.

Don't be one of those retards who converts to a tranny ally. Especially not over something so stupid.

I don't agree that "reality always wins."

It does. Score so far is infinite-to-zero in reality's favor. Try holding your breath for the rest of your life and see if reality or your willpower to manifest your own reality wins out. You are not Neo. You are skykiii. You will breathe, and you will like it.

 

[Agitated Gerbil]

Most of all, I want to prove that humanity is more than just fuck-monkeys and that the things we do actually are something greater and more important than glorified animal mate-seeking behaviors.

Once you let go of your unreasonable striving your life will blossom. "The greatest lie ever told is that a God is necessary for a fulfilled life." Everyone accepts it without question.

Oh, and "the devil" you speak of? That's just the subconscious mind erupting into conscious life in the only way a blind unthinking force can - by overwhelming an individual of weak individuation and releasing internal pressure in that way. Everything from trannies (failed individuation) to stab/shooting attacks is due to this. Same goes for chuds and right wingers. It's all just about people not being comfortable with who they really are and making peace with the banality and triviality of life both in its tragedies and its triumphs.

 

[⚞⛇⚟]

I've always thought this argument was sub par because autists on an internet forum can't really do shit anyways so it's not like it even matters if they did "truly figure it all out". So long as the rest of the population views those autists as raving lunatics (they usually do) it won't affect anything.

Do normies think that you are a raving lunatic when you explain your beliefs to them?

 

[Hyperbolic Steroids]

Do normies think that you are a raving lunatic when you explain your beliefs to them?

There are scores of normies who think even the most milquetoast Christians are raving lunatics. You'd be lacking self awareness to think that everyone will see your beliefs as perfectly acceptable. Not even practitioners of atheism and science always agree on the same thing. Consider the fact that even on the troon question there are people who vehemently disagree with you. To them you are a raving lunatic.

 

[skykiii]

These actually fit in with your views quite easily if you consider every single one of these things to be agents of Satan (they are in a lot of cases).

Kind of, but then it runs into the view that its reducing Satan down to just a comic book villain.

This is one thing I was trying to get at.... demons, angels, those little white things with the clicky heads from that one Miyazaki movie... they don't have the same factors that urge them in certain directions like humanity does. It makes sense humanity would at times degrade to animal-tier behavior because of fear of death, hunger, thirst, desire for sex, so on and so forth....

Satan or any other nonhuman entity literally has none of the same drives and no reason to care.

The best I could come up with is its the other way around (if we assume a shadowy cabal exists at all): It's not that the demon is leading it up, its that the people in the cabal specifically approached a demon for help and the demon said "Okay dumbass, here's what you do..." and it went from there. So the demon is more an advisory position and will jump ship the minute it goes belly up--assuming they didn't just give the summoner some pointers and then leave right on day one.

False. Time and labor are scarce resources that need to be economized. From the fact that they have time masterminding it does not follow that they simultaneously have time to stop autists on an Internet forum.

It's not about time, its about the logical paradox of the proposition.

This is why I invoked the reference to Jurassic Park--the point of the original novel (and to a lesser extent the first movie) was that Alan Grant assumed he was this great mastermind who could keep everything working exactly according to his design, but the truth was he was way over his head because life is full of chaos and chaos will always find a way.

Same deal here. It's not just believing nobody else ever figured it out, but that the Shadowy Cabal's plans always went perfectly and they never so much as ate undercooked food or had a car stall on them or got held up in traffic or just happened to be there the day some nutcase decided to shoot a place up or or or....

Yeah, that kind of convenience only happens in a show written by Steven Moffat.

In general though it sounds like you're an agnostic or atheist and trying to come up with some deeper meaning.

Actually no, I'm neither agnostic nor atheist. I tend to disagree with most of what passes for "christianity" or "religion" these days, but God is real. In fact God is on your left shoulder right now.

I've mentioned in another topic I've actually met Satan too.

Spoiler: Recap

So basically, I had this dream where I was looking up at this planet in the sky that seemed like it was too close to the ground. The planet looked like it had tree roots all over it. Then I realized it was not a planet, it was the head of a tall creature--like a big round top on a tree that sort of gave the impression of a robe--and even though it had no eyes or nose or mouth, I could tell it was looking at me.

Instantly I knew who it was, and got cocky and was all like, "Let me guess, you're gonna offer me something in exchange for my soul?"

To which Satan answered, "Actually, for your purposes, you're better off with God."

I got confused by that statement both in the dream and in real life, and its kinda led me to rethinking whether everything I've heard about the two is true.

Don't be one of those retards who converts to a tranny ally. Especially not over something so stupid.

Honestly Ness, this responds reads as an example of the "mental cut-off switch." You saw a trigger term and it put you back on a more simplistic frame of mind where now all you're worried about is who is allied with who. That wasn't what I was talking about.

It does. Score so far is infinite-to-zero in reality's favor.

Your example of holding one's breath makes me think you missed the "can't let reality set the rules" part.

Like I said I have reasons to think reality doesn't always win, informed by personal experiences. Most notably when I first got into magic and stuff (I was around 13 at the time) I did what most dumb kids do and tried a spell for more money. The next day I resumed where I left off in a copy of Fellowship of the Ring and there was fifty dollars in between the pages, inexplicably. As in an actual fifty dollar bill. At that point in life I had never even seen a fifty dollar bill before.

I never got this to work a second time.

In retrospect this was also when I began to notice some of the stultified behaviors of humanity, a lot of people around me were convinced things were only worth doing if they generated a cash income. Which is both understandible but also I think something that weakens the human spirit.