The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[mrt6732]

Maybe they drained and dried the corpses before cremation, lowering fuel requirements. Pruned Jews/Jew Jerky probably burns easier.

Emaciated corpses are more difficult to cremate than normal deceased ones with average body fat content.

 

[Chugger]

Nah their years long failures should stand for everyone to see

You all will miss me someday, but let me remind everyone of the good work that was done in years past, such as the ballad of Rapechu https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-70 , a departed member who had "respect for [my] knowledge of history"

 

[Bonesjones]

You all will miss me someday, but let me remind everyone of the good work that was done in years past, such as the ballad of Rapechu https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-70 , a departed member who had "respect for [my] knowledge of history"

Lol you think a post from almost 3 years ago matters, that's how pathetic you are. If he kept seeing how much of a liar and laughing stock you are, he'd change his tune as well.

 

[Chugger]

Lol you think a post from almost 3 years ago matters, that's how pathetic you are. If he kept seeing how much of a liar and laughing stock you are, he'd change his tune as well.

Nothing about my approach changed, just all the 'more reasonable' revisionists like Lemmingwise and Rapechu exited the debate. Imagine if one of your opponents ever voiced some respect for you. You are a humiliation to your movement, and to humanity in general, and you don't even know it.

 

[Bonesjones]

Nothing about my approach changed, just all the 'more reasonable' revisionists like Lemmingwise and Rapechu exited the debate. Imagine if one of your opponents ever voiced some respect for you. You are a humiliation to your movement, and to humanity in general, and you don't even know it.

Man you really love the sound of your own retarded voice. You back for more humiliation or still trying to drive traffic to your blog?

 

[the gouts]

https://waltking.substack.com/p/auschwitz-six-facts-and-seven-questions

A good read.

here are my answers:

QUESTION 1: When the German high command decided to remove a minority it found troublesome, which of these options did they consider?
1. Attempt to arrange another location to receive them, eg Eastern Europe, Palestine, Madagascar, Siberia?
deporting european jews was quite the day dream. resettlement efforts would have only been possible after a victory in the war.
2. Make use of them as forced labour for the war effort?
they did this. a great deal of jews died in labor camps.
3. Send them to the nearest military camp to face a firing squad?
they did this, look up the einsatzgruppen.
4. Round them up from all parts of the country and transport them across vast distances to a remote industrial estate in the far south of an adjacent country which needed their labour, but then curiously to kill them with an inefficient method designed for an entirely different purpose?
these ‘vast distances’ were quite easily traversed by railroad. the gassings were an incredibly reliable and efficient manner of mass murder. the holocaust was successful, after all.

QUESTION TWO: You are in charge of the work camp at Auschwitz and need to maintain a fit and healthy workforce for the factories. Do you divert treatment from protecting your workforce, running down scarce stocks of protective chemicals, to kill people who could otherwise be used to maintain workforce levels?
murdering jews took priority over their labor (slave labor only made up like a few percent of total german war-time material output, by the way). so assuming this is even my decision to make (it most likely is not), i would probably be ideologically driven to redirect these chemicals to kill a population i perceive as racially inferior and genetically prone to subverting and destroying my people.
further, see below as to why this is a stupid argument regarding competing chemical supply.

QUESTION THREE: If not at Auschwitz, where, then, did the gassing of Jews take place?
it did occur at auschwitz, among other places. fumigation chambers for delousing take significantly longer and require more of the chemical. there is both more time and material to stain the walls blue. gas chambers in operation were cycled in any time from ten to thirty minutes, airing out the zyklon b and preventing further staining. further, the gas chambers were demolished, and exposure to the open and elements air dilutes the staining significantly (this is probably because prussian blue doesnt penetrate far into the material, see here)

QUESTION 4: So, if there were about 3 million Jews in the relevant area before the Holocaust, and about 5 million that survived it, how many perished between 1941 and 1945?
this is wrong. the actual number was over ten million. this is something even adolf eichmann backs up in the wannsee protocall.

The fifth argument goes over the boiling point of Zyklon B. Forgetting, of course, that boiling is not equivalent to evaporation. their question is just 'Do you think that the truth can be obtained through torture?', which is not worth answering. anyways: zyklon B can evaporate into the air at minus 18 degrees celsius. to quote a commenter from the holocaustcontroversies blog, ‘Zyklon B manufacturers wrote (before WWII) that at 20°C most of HCN has evaporated within 30 minutes. One Zyklon B specialist said that experimental measures provided a 28% HCN evaporation rate from ZB after 5 minutes at 20°C (that's 86% after 30 minutes). In Krema II gas chamber, an HCN concentration of 3000ppm would be reached in 5 minutes. 300ppm is enough to kill in a few minutes. 3000ppm always kills in one minute.’

QUESTION 6: Is it not reasonable to suggest that if the Allies had discovered reliable evidence of German atrocities, these writers and organisations would have jumped on it and publicised it widely after the war to discredit the enemy?
germany and the germans were no longer the enemy, the soviet union was.
this question also hinges off of the argument that the holocaust was never mentioned by the allies immediately after the war (even though there are examples such as eisenhower (who the writer mentions, by the way) who can be quoted as to demanding evidence collection of the liberated camps, so the crimes cannot be denied later on), or in german documentation or communications made during the war. this is despite that german coded speak of the final solution as 'resettlement', 'evacuation', et cetera can almost always be substituted for murder. in some cases, words like 'liquidation' were documented, which is a lot more on-the-nose.

his final question about the illegality of holocaust denial criminilization, which is not worth answering. instead, here is an accredited historian who was an expert witness against denier david irving arguing against holocaust criminlization.

the substack has other denier claims and quotes which have been pretty thoroughly debooonked before. i have not addressed them in this post, though i may in the future, and will upon request. reposted after spoiler formatting got fucked by bold lettering, was too lazy to fix it.

 

[Bonesjones]

here are my answers:

If you are going to show up and pretend you know anything about the holocaust why would you use holocaust Controversies as a source? Did Chugger really make another account to hide the fact he's been so owned his name is trash?

 

[the gouts]

If you are going to show up and pretend you know anything about the holocaust why would you use holocaust Controversies as a source? Did Chugger really make another account to hide the fact he's been so owned his name is trash?

i actually think you two are the same person to be honest

 

[Bonesjones]

i actually think you two are the same person to be honest

No one cares what you think, retard

 

[cigint]

the holocaust was successful, after all.

Well, not really. The Jewish population at the end of it was larger than when they started. Frankly, they would have had more success by just not feeding them. Then they would have actually all died.

 

[mrt6732]

Well, not really. The Jewish population at the end of it was larger than when they started. Frankly, they would have had more success by just not feeding them. Then they would have actually all died.

The holocaustians act like the Germans were so perfect at disposing of bodies without a trace that not even a few Soviet Katyn massacres would ever have popped up here and there from the "Six Million" extermination plan.

 

[the gouts]

Well, not really. The Jewish population at the end of it was larger than when they started. Frankly, they would have had more success by just not feeding them. Then they would have actually all died.

no, lol. the population is lower, to this day, than it was prewar. by magnitudes of millions.
>but whuddabout this census from 1945 that says it was still over (however many) million!!
those were ham-fisted attempts using prewar population numbers. they couldn't get accurate data on the account of the whole world war going on.

The holocaustians act like the Germans were so perfect at disposing of bodies without a trace that not even a few Soviet Katyn massacres would ever have popped up here and there from the "Six Million" extermination plan.

okay, sure. you can look up 'holocaust mass graves' right now and find traces. i am going to revive the spirit of chugger real quick and even refer back to his earlier post about crushed bones in chelmo.

 

[Armor of God]

no, lol. the population is lower, to this day, than it was prewar. by magnitudes of millions.
>but whuddabout this census from 1945 that says it was still over (however many) million!!
those were ham-fisted attempts using prewar population numbers. they couldn't get accurate data on the account of the whole world war going on.

okay, sure. you can look up 'holocaust mass graves' right now and find traces. i am going to revive the spirit of chugger real quick and even refer back to his earlier post about crushed bones in chelmo.

Really ? So can you definitively prove that there were millions and millions of corpses cremated/liquified/whatever the fuck into these mass graves ?

Because across all of the camps, it would be laughable to suggest that such definitive proof exists.

Even Chugger wasn't this much of a retard (I think).

 

[GameratePTSD]

you can look up 'holocaust mass graves' right now and find traces

"... if you just give me ten rupees. I swear the evidence is right there, just another ten. I can tell we're close."

 

[Bonesjones]

no, lol. the population is lower, to this day, than it was prewar. by magnitudes of millions.
>but whuddabout this census from 1945 that says it was still over (however many) million!!
those were ham-fisted attempts using prewar population numbers. they couldn't get accurate data on the account of the whole world war going on.

okay, sure. you can look up 'holocaust mass graves' right now and find traces. i am going to revive the spirit of chugger real quick and even refer back to his earlier post about crushed bones in chelmo.

You are chugger, you dumb faggot. You have like 4 posts in 4 years. It's just a placeholder account you started using because you can't stay away from your humiliation fetish.

 

[the gouts]

Really ? So can you definitively prove that there were millions and millions of corpses cremated/liquified/whatever the fuck into these mass graves ?

Because across all of the camps, it would be laughable to suggest that such definitive proof exists.

Even Chugger wasn't this much of a retard (I think).

there are enough of these mass graves that they pop up with some regularity. another example. and another. but i guess now the burden of proof is weighed by whether or not we fellow holocaustians (im stealing that word) are constantly excavating new sights and dividing up the ash by weight to confirm our numbers? that's silly.

You are chugger, you dumb faggot. You have like 4 posts in 4 years. It's just a placeholder account you started using because you can't stay away from your humiliation fetish.

this is true

 

[Bonesjones]

there are enough of these mass graves that they pop up with some regularity. another example. and another. but i guess now the burden of proof is weighed by whether or not we fellow holocaustians (im stealing that word) are constantly excavating new sights and dividing up the ash by weight to confirm our numbers? that's silly.

Mass graves of enemy combatants isn't a genocide. You'll have to do better than that, even though we know you can't since the holocaust has been studied for almost 80 years and you still have zero scientific evidence.

 

[the gouts]

Mass graves of enemy combatants isn't a genocide. You'll have to do better than that, even though we know you can't since the holocaust has been studied for almost 80 years and you still have zero scientific evidence.

View attachment 6615147

'This research better illuminated the site’s layout, the location of additional mass graves that had not yet been memorialized, and the confirmation of an escape tunnel that was used by Jewish slave laborers who were charged by their German captors with digging up the 100,000 bodies, burning the remains, and then burying the ashes. Facing sure death when this grim task was completed, they chose to dig an escape tunnel. ERT and GPR were used at Ponary to pinpoint the location and route of the remains of this escape tunnel, and the location of a previously undiscovered burial pit [3].'
was burning the bodies of the war dead a german, soviet, or latvian army tradition? or was the scientific paper i got that quote from, which i also linked only a few posts ago, not a reliable source? i mean, they use GPR technology which deniers seem to love so much. they also cite a whole host of other credible scholarly sources on the holocaust if you wish to dig through.

 

[Chugger]

Really ? So can you definitively prove that there were millions and millions of corpses cremated/liquified/whatever the fuck into these mass graves ?

Because across all of the camps, it would be laughable to suggest that such definitive proof exists.

Even Chugger wasn't this much of a retard (I think).

What's happened is there were multiple studies of the sites by forensic specialists who determined mass body destruction happened there. The most detailed is https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hol...nvestigation-of-belzec-mass-graves-t1174.html

The methodology here is one typical in archeology of graves, the use of drills to extract soil samples, rather than a full bore excavation.

Where the studies "lack" is that they weren't done with the participation of revisionists and they weren't total excavations where massive holes were dug, except for the studies in the immediate post war period, eg

In his book about Belzec, Carlo Mattogno provided partial translations from the related investigation reports, which speak for themselves:
On October 12, 1945, the Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc, Czeslaw Godzieszewski, presented an "Account of the diggings in the cemetery of the Belzec extermination camp," in which he set down the findings from the inspection of the Belzec camp he had made that day, aided by 12 workers. In this context, he wrote: "The opening labeled No. 1 was taken down to a depth of 8 m and a width of 10 m and attained the bottom level of the graves. During the operation, at a depth of about 2 m, we struck the first layer of ash stemming from incinerated human bodies, mixed with sand. This layer was about 1 m thick. The next layer of ash was discovered at a depth of 4 – 6 meters. In the ash removed, some charred remains of human bodies were found, such as hands and arms, women’s hair, as well as human bones not totally burnt. We also recovered pieces of burnt wood. In trench No. 1, the layer of human ash stopped at a depth of 6 meters. The opening labeled No. 2 was taken down to a depth of 6 meters. In this trench, the layer of human ash began at a depth of 1.5 m and continued down to a depth of some 5 m, with occasional breaks. Here, too, the ash contained human hair, part of a human body, pieces of clothing, and remnants of incompletely burnt bones. Openings labeled Nos. 3 and 4 were freed to a depth of 3 meters. In hole No. 4, at a depth of 80 cm, we found a human skull with remnants of skin and hair, as well as two shinbones and a rib. Furthermore, at a level of between one and three meters, these holes yielded human ash mixed with sand and fragments of incompletely burnt human bones. Openings labeled Nos. 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 were dug to a depth of 2 m, but showed only human ash mixed with sand and human bones, such as jawbones and shinbones. Throughout all the excavations it was observed that the camp cemetery had already been disturbed by wildcat diggings; this is borne out by the fact that the layers of human ash are not uniform but mixed with sand. The recovered human bones; the bodily remains, which where in a state of complete decomposition; and the ash were collected in a common location to await the arrival of the district surgeon. Work was stopped at 17:30 hours."The next day, October 13, 1945, the findings were inspected by the coroner. The subsequent report describes primarily the results of the examination performed by the judge and the coroner:"During the inspection of the area of the extermination camp, particularly during the excavations at the place of the cemetery on October 12, 1945, a large number of human bones were found, such as skulls, parts of skulls, vertebrae, ribs, collarbones, shoulder blades, arm bones, lower legs, wrists, fingers, pelvic bones, thigh bones, lower legs, and foot bones. Some of the bones mentioned are either partly burnt or had not been burnt at all. Except for a few skulls showing rotting scalp and hair, the majority of the bones are free from soft tissue. Among the remains of human bodies recovered on October 12, 1945, we identified two forearms and a lumbar portion of the backbone with some soft tissue and traces of carbonization. The lumbar section belongs to an adult, whereas the forearms come from a child a few years old. From the size of the various bones one can conclude that they belong to persons of different age groups, from two-year-olds up to very old people, as borne out by toothless jaws and numerous dentures. Among the jawbones found there was one partially burnt specimen containing milk teeth as well as incipient permanent teeth, which indicates that it belongs to a person 7 to 8 years of age. No traces of bullet holes or other mechanical wounds were found on the skulls. The long bones show no traces either of gunshot wounds or fractures. Because of the advanced state of decomposition it was very difficult to say to what organs the recovered shapeless portions of soft tissue from human bodies might belong. In a hole dug by the local population in a search for gold and valuables, two lower legs belonging to a two-year-old child were discovered. These members are partly decomposed, partly mummified. The area of the cemetery, in particular the wildcat holes, is covered with layers of human ash of varying breadth, which stem from the incineration of human corpses and wood; they are intermingled with sand in varying proportions. The color of the ash varies between light-ash and dark gray; the ash has a heavy consistency and smells of decomposing human bodies. In the ash, charred human bones as well as pieces of charcoal are clearly visible. In the lower strata of the ash the smell of decomposition is more pronounced than in the layers nearer the surface. The hair discovered belongs mainly to women, as shown by their length and by the type of arrangement (braids and buns fixed with hairpins). In addition to natural hair, we encountered ladies’ wigs as well. With this, the inspection was terminated." [5]
The coroner’s report about the inspection of the corpses is followed by an expert opinion not transcribed and translated by Mattogno:
Expert OpinionOn grounds of the postmortem examination made I find that the aforementioned bones and soft tissue parts as well as the ash are predominantly of human origin. A very small part comes from wood. Judging by the huge amount of ash and bones I assert that the same must be from a very large quantity of human bodies. The small soft tissue parts of human bodies that are in the ash and not completely carbonized issue a smell that is caused by the decomposition process of the remains of human soft tissue parts. This smell is also caused by the fact that the soil is soaked by the masses of decomposing human corpses that were burned after having been extracted from the soil. Considering the sandy soil in which the human corpses were burned and the state of decomposition of the body parts found, one has to assume that these corpses were presumably buried about 3 years ago. The human body parts not carbonized and the huge amount of hair proves that some corpses were buried after the time when the corpse burning in the extermination camp was stopped, eventually they may also be corpses that were not extracted from the mass grave during cremation. Due to the fact that the skull bones show no traces of shots, it must be assumed that these people did not die from shooting.[6]Signature: Dr. Mieczyslaw Pietraszkiewicz
Further complementing the reports partially quoted by Mattogno there is the report of an official inspection of the Belzec site on October 10, 1945, obviously by the same examining judge.[7] The following excerpt illustrates the extent of the mess of human ashes and other partial remains, brought to the surface by robbery diggers, and especially the size of the area covered by that mess:
Along the camp’s northern border, from about the middle until the point where it touches the eastern border, the camp area is churned up and plowed through in a width of about 100 meters. Also a strip along the whole eastern border is dug up and churned up in a width reaching up to the middle of the whole camp area. According to information from the assisting public servants of the citizens’ militia from the militia post in Belzec, the described churning-up of the camp area comes from the neighboring population, which was searching for gold and jewels left behind by the murdered Jews. In the churned-up area there lie huge amounts of scattered human bones, skulls, vertebrae, ribs, shinbones, jawbones, tooth implants made of rubber, hair (mainly female and often braided), furthermore pieces of decomposed human flesh like hands and lower limbs of little children. Furthermore there lie on the whole area described above huge amounts of ashes from the burned victims as well as remains of the burned human bones. From the deeply dug-up holes there comes the smell of decomposing human bodies. All this proves that the camp area along the northern and eastern border is a continuous common grave of the people murdered in the camp.

There also weren't calculations made about the amount of ashes, but it seems like a lot.

 

[Bonesjones]

This time on pretending things that aren't the holocaust while pretending they are, accidently denying the holocaust in the process because you are a retard:

'This research better illuminated the site’s layout, the location of additional mass graves that had not yet been memorialized, and the confirmation of an escape tunnel that was used by Jewish slave laborers who were charged by their German captors with digging up the 100,000 bodies, burning the remains, and then burying the ashes.

Let's go through your "research"

Using Geophysics to Locate Holocaust Era Mass Graves in Jewish Cemeteries: Examples from Latvia and Lithuania

Oh man the title gives you away. They buried bodies in graveyards, how evil and deceitful! You can't even propagandist right.

Oh look Canadian contribution, a place where holocaust denial is a crime. Strike two, I haven't even gotten to the body of your text yet.

A common practice used by the Germans and collaborators in World War II, as part of the Holocaust, was to use existing Jewish cemeteries as places for mass burial.

lmao.

As part of the “Holocaust by Bullets”, the Germans created combined murder/burial sites that were distant enough from Jewish Ghettos not to arouse suspicion regarding their purpose. Burial sites were also created near the Ghettos, where Jews were imprisoned, for the quick burial of some victims, with existing Jewish cemeteries used in some cases as these very local mass burial sites.

There is no such thing as a holocaust of bullets, since holocaust means burnt offering. It refers only to the gassing and cremation of jews. Just another attempt at denying the holocaust by it's promoters by revisionist history. How dare you antisemites do that! Also this is just bad writing in general, if they were executing jews for being partisans, that's exactly how you do it. They even buried them in their Jewish graveyards instead of in the middle of nowhere. How thoughtful.

Jewish law of Halacha

doesn't apply to mass graves unless they need it to not be studied

he approximately 4500 Jews currently living in Latvia trace their roots to survivors of the Holocaust, Jews who fled to the Soviet Union (USSR) to escape the 1941 German invasion and later returned, and Jews who immigrated to Latvia more recently from the former USSR

uh oh did they admit the thing that didn't happen, actually happened? Whoops you accidently denied the holocaust.

In anticipation of German occupation, many Jews were murdered before and during their arrival by local Latvians

damn those Germans and their ability to mind control other people to kill jews.

Im stopping here because your study is worthless and cut and pasting is nightmare and I've already done more work than you ever will.

or was the scientific paper i got that quote from, which i also linked only a few posts ago, not a reliable source?

No source is reliable due to the fact that denying the holocaust means jews will ruin your life. Doing holocaust research in any official capacity is propaganda because they can only reach one conclusion. Not that you understand what that means.

i mean, they use GPR technology which deniers seem to love so much.

Yeah using tools for scientific research is what people who are searching for the truth do. Funny how holocaust research always stops short of that. Why do you always find every excuse to not do actual science? Scared of what you might find?

they also cite a whole host of other credible scholarly sources on the holocaust if you wish to dig through.

Hey look you've inherited chuggers inability to post pertinent information, only able to link to mass walls of text that always end up saying the opposite of what you intend.

The methodology here is one typical in archeology of graves, the use of drills to extract soil samples, rather than a full bore excavation.

No that's a methodology of preliminary studies, which I've told you because I actually have mining experience.

Where the studies "lack" is that they weren't done with the participation of revisionists and they weren't total excavations where massive holes were dug, except for the studies in the immediate post war period, eg

So they weren't done completely nor scientifically? Some study.

There also weren't calculations made about the amount of ashes, but it seems like a lot.

So they didn't do what they set out to do and you pretend it means anything. You are actually retarded.