The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

Lemmingwise said:
Yes, very destructive.

That is not at all like uprooting.
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Unless I'm missing some other English meaning of clearing a land. What I'm talking about is cutting down any tree, bushes, etc. from a piece of land. A process that destroys the original flora of that land.

I'm still waiting on you to back up your claims:
Lemmingwise said:
In the past ausrotten only meant to uproot, and the other meaning, the destruction or vernichting slowly also gained traction since the 18th century and more examples of it being used that way were in 1930s.
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Where are these examples from 1930s? You still have not posted any.
 
byuu said:
The original would help, I need to guess how it was translated.
I'm guessing you're talking about "annihilation of Jewry"? That is very likely translated from "Judentum" which can mean Jewish culture/faith and how I would I interpret it. That's ambiguous contrary to "jüdische Volk".


"aber der Jude wird ausgerottet"? It's less ambiguous but that could be interpreted like the "the Christian will be exterminated", not really referring to the people.
Again, with "jüdische Volk" there really is no room for interpretation.


Exterminate, eradicate, destroy something (e.g. a weed) along with its root.
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What the fuck?

It became that after the fact, alongside the English word, Exterminate. I'm not German but yes, Exterminate in English did not mean kill for a long time - it referred to pest control exclusively. How would he get an example of the word Ausrotten being used as a synonym for Exterminate when both, at the time, meant something entirely different from what you're suggesting.

We still use the word "Exterminator" which, like German "Ausrotten", became synonymous with killing after the end of the Second World War.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you a Century-old German man or something? It was a euphemism at the time, both in English and German. Both came to mean the same thing as a euphemism for killing. The English version is such a strangely technical term that it stuck in the minds of people at the time, and it was directly translated to it.

It was later impacted by Dr Who, of all things, with the Daleks, further amplifying it as synonymous with murder.

No matter which way it goes, Ausrotten = Exterminate, and neither had the same connotations before the war as after. It referred, exclusively, to the removal of pests, weeds and unwanted materials in an agricultural context - an exterminator would provide his services to houses to remove pests.

These pests were not necessarily killed, only removed - although thanks to Hitler, the two became strongly synonymous.
 
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Willie Thrills said:
What the fuck?

It became that after the fact, alongside the English word, Exterminate.

We still use the word "Exterminator" which, like German "Ausrotten", became synonymous with killing after the end of the Second World War.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you a Century-old German man or something? It was a euphemism at the time, both in English and German. Both came to mean the same thing as a euphemism for killing.
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No, nigger.
As already shown in the thread the metaphorical meaning already existed half a fucking millennium ago.
And even the non-metaphorical meaning always described a process that kills the plants.

1942 ain't that fucking long ago. My grandparents lived in that time. The speech is in modern High German that any German can understand without problems. Just like an American can understand stuff from that time like Snow White, Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Eisenhower speeches, etc..
 
byuu said:
No, nigger.
As already shown in the thread the metaphorical meaning already existed half a fucking millennium ago.
And even the non-metaphorical meaning always described a process that kills the plants.

1942 ain't that fucking long ago. My grandparents lived in that time. The speech is in modern High German that any German can understand without problems. Just like an American can understand stuff from that time like Snow White, Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Eisenhower speeches, etc..
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1942 is a long fucking time in terms of dialects. 1942 British-English dialects aren't even mutually intelligible.

And what the fuck are you even arguing here? You're saying the exact same thing as him, just more retarded.

Most people cannot understand Eisenhower speeches, infact that's why they seem shocked at certain phrases and words. If you think you can understand the full implications and tones of 1942 English, you're a fucking retard. And I believe you are just as retarded in German!

American politics are a fantastic example of people not speaking their own fucking language, look at how many of them mix up historic "regulated" with modern political regulation!
 
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Willie Thrills said:
1942 is a long fucking time in terms of dialects. 1942 British-English dialects aren't even mutually intelligible.
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Nigger, who's talking about dialects? The speech is in High German, without any regional dialects, not that there's any difference in the Bavarian usage, where Himmler is from, for the word "ausrotten".
It's also not some fancy politician or bureaucrat word but a very simple common one.

Not to mention that I even provided sources for it. Find me a source that supports your claims about its usage.
 
byuu said:
No, nigger.
As already shown in the thread the metaphorical meaning already existed half a fucking millennium ago.
And even the non-metaphorical meaning always described a process that kills the plants.

1942 ain't that fucking long ago. My grandparents lived in that time. The speech is in modern High German that any German can understand without problems. Just like an American can understand stuff from that time like Snow White, Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Eisenhower speeches, etc..
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Here, I found the word describing what you're trying to attribute to "Ausrotten"

You don't seem to speak English very well, so I'll dumb it down.

What you're describing is called "slash-and-burn" in English, "Brandrodung" in German.

When forests are cleared by "Ausroden" methods in your own words, they are done so to prepare the land in a managed and confined fashion, which is exactly the image Himmler* wanted to convey. I'm not even denying he meant to kill them, I am telling you that Himmler specifically chose these words to conjure the image of the "natives" being slowly pushed away as the "superior" Germans manage the land in an orderly and efficient manner. This was also the exact image that every leader which has ever conquered their neighbours have tried to convey - like the English in Ireland, with the New Model Army under Cromwell.

byuu said:
Nigger, who's talking about dialects? The speech is in High German, without any regional dialects, not that there's any difference in the Bavarian usage, where Himmler is from, for the word "ausrotten".
It's also not some fancy politician or bureaucrat word but a very simple common one.

Not to mention that I even provided sources for it. Find me a source that supports your claims about its usage.
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https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandrodung

Is this what you think Exterminate means? Yes-or-no?

Since when was High German not a dialect? Oxford English is a dialect, why would High German not be a dialect? This isn't even a translation issue, both Oxford and High German have changed over the last century in considerable ways. I came here thinking you may have been right, but you genuinely don't seem to understand either English or German words.

If he was using words like "Cleanse" (context, Reinigen, like bleach) then it would be more believable that he was referring to murder. In context, he is trying to convey a wholesome image of what was, at the time, a managed process of repair and "making something better"
 
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Willie Thrills said:
When forests are cleared by "Ausroden" methods in your own words, they are done so to prepare the land in a managed and confined fashion, which is exactly the image Hitler wanted to convey. I'm not even denying he meant to kill them, I am telling you that Hitler specifically chose these words to conjure the image of the "natives" being slowly pushed away as the "superior" Germans manage the land in an orderly and efficient manner. This was also the exact image that every leader which has ever conquered their neighbours have tried to convey - like the English in Ireland, with the New Model Army under Cromwell.
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First off, we're talking about Himmler's speech, not Hitler's. I've agreed that Hitler's use is ambiguous but for completely different reasons. So keep up, retard.
Second, "burning down the Jewish people to the ground" isn't any better than "exterminate the Jewish people".
There is always a clear implication of killing life, be it tree/weed/bacteria/human/whatever.

Willie Thrills said:
Since when was High German not a dialect? Oxford English is a dialect, why would High German not be a dialect? This isn't even a translation issue, both Oxford and High German have changed over the last century in considerable ways. I came here thinking you may have been right, but you genuinely don't seem to understand either English or German words.
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What stupid shit are you talking about now? I said there was no regional dialect.
High German is the national dialect every German is taught and can understand perfectly.
It was not some weird usage specific to some region that other Germans from a different region might misunderstand.
 
Willie Thrills said:
I came here thinking you may have been right
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It's very reasonable to think the native german speaker would be right about his language. That's the wonder of people that think and investigate for themselves, things may not be quite what they appear.

I have no idea of what you wrote about exterminate in english, I find it hard to believe, but I'll look into it.

Edit:yeah guess you got a point:

IMG_20211017_154606.png

byuu said:
There is always a clear implication of killing
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...."implication"....
 
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Lemmingwise said:
...."implication"....
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As in a necessary consequence. Not as a 4chan greentext meme.

Can you stop nitpicking on retarded shit and finally provide anything to back up your earlier claims?
I'm still waiting.
 
byuu said:
As in a necessary consequence. Not as a 4chan greentext meme.

Can you stop nitpicking on exceptional shit and finally provide anything to back up your earlier claims?
I'm still waiting.
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I've already backed up my earlier claims, you've just ignored all evidence.

But sure I'll give you one more, even though you still won't thank me, because you have no open mind, no willingness to learn, you've proven that already.

You think somehow english translations don't matter. Fine. I'll prove it with just a german source. I've used more sources to verify it than I listed here, but this should be sufficient.

At the same time I will also prove and show another example of history rewriting.
We can see it in a bible verse, ezekiel 17:9 (hezekiel in german). Because we all know bible texts are written down lackadaisically.
-----------------------------

German 1912:
Luther bible 1912 hezekiel 17:9:
So sprich nun: Also sagt der HERR HERR: Sollte der geraten? Ja, man wird seine Wurzeln ausrotten und seine Früchte abreißen, und er wird verdorren, daß alle Blätter seines Gewächses verdorren werden; und es wird nicht geschehen durch großen Arm noch viel Volks, daß man ihn von seinen Wurzeln wegführe.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lut/
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lut/hesekiel/17.html
Proof of bible version: https://archive.md/T4mgH
Proof of bible verse: https://archive.md/XkO6p

English translations:
Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.

King james bible
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezekiel-Chapter-17/#9
proof: https://archive.md/D5WyQ

knox bible (closest english translation of german luther bible)

Will any good come of this? asks the Lord God. Nay, roots shall be plucked up, fruit ravaged, branches left to wither; fade it must, nor is it like to need great strength or many hands for its unearthing.

Knox bible (closest english translation of german luther bible)
http://catholicbible.online/side_by_side/OT/Eze/ch_17
proof: https://archive.md/7BbWC

Say thou: Thus saith the Lord God: Shall it prosper then? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and strip off its fruit, and dry up all the branches it hath shot forth, and make it wither: and this without a strong arm, or many people, to pluck it up by the root?

Douay-Rheims translation, just for exhaustive completion
http://catholicbible.online/side_by_side/OT/Eze/ch_17
proof: https://archive.md/7BbWC

Now let's look how they changed it in a modern luther bible:
modern luther bible rewrite

Luther Bible 2017 hezekiel 17:9:

So sage nun: So spricht Gott der Herr: Sollte der geraten? Wird man nicht seine Wurzeln ausreißen, dass seine Früchte verderben? Und er wird verdorren; alle Blätter, die ihm gewachsen sind, werden verwelken. Ohne große Kraft und ohne viel Volk wird man ihn mit seinen Wurzeln ausreißen

https://www.die-bibel.de/bibeln/online-bibeln/lesen/LU17/EZK.17/Hesekiel-17
Proof: https://archive.md/QvamD
-------------------------

As you can see, the word was in use as rooting out even in 1912 and you can see that from 1912 to 2017 it was changed in the luther bible.

Now continue your spiel where you pretend there is no evidence at all or move the goalposts. Or you know you could thank me for teaching you something. LMAO, we know that isn't going to happen.
 
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Lemmingwise said:
I've already backed up my earlier claims, you've just ignored all evidence.
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Where did you show the use of "ausrotten" in 1930 in a way that supports your theory?
There is evidence of that according to you. You neither posted that evidence, nor why do you think there's evidence of that, not even an excuse as to why you can't provide it.

A Google Translate screencap of an awkward translation, with no elaboration, not shown in use, no mention of 1930, is clearly not.

Lemmingwise said:
Luther bible 1912 hezekiel 17:9:

So sprich nun: Also sagt der HERR HERR: Sollte der geraten? Ja, man wird seine Wurzeln ausrotten und seine Früchte abreißen, und er wird verdorren, daß alle Blätter seines Gewächses verdorren werden; und es wird nicht geschehen durch großen Arm noch viel Volks, daß man ihn von seinen Wurzeln wegführe.
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Are you serious, nigger?
I've posted that same fucking Bible verse.
Because it completely supports what I'm saying as it is in the context of destruction.
Did you not even read it?
 
Yeah that's what I thought. Continued denial. I think anyone can read those spoilers above, check a bible in their own language from the same era and see that in every language ezekiel 17:9 says "uproot". It's true for dutch, english, portuguese, latin and it's true for german, even if you refuse to admit it.

Lmao, what a disgrace, to be schooled in your own language by a fucking swampjew.
 
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Lemmingwise said:
Yeah that's what I thought. Continued denial. I think anyone can read those spoilers above, check a bible in their own language from the same era and see that in every language ezekiel 17:9 says "uproot". It's true for dutch, english, portuguese, latin and it's true for german, even if you refuse to admit it.
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Yeah, you really showed me by posting what I already posted before you did.
Something that confirms what I've been saying from the beginning - that it can only be used as "uproot" if the plant is killed. As in uprooting a weed.
Go back in the thread and see that I already talked about this very thing.
Did you not even read it?

I am still waiting on you to show me the use of "ausrotten" for a non-destructive process.

Lemmingwise said:
a fucking dutchjew.
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So you're part of a Jewish false flag operation to make deniers look like unhinged retards?
Finally, everything makes sense.
 
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Yeah I read it. You used an old version of it, 1500's if I recall, not exactly as meaningful as the 20th century translation, is it?

None of the old german dictionaries say it is exclusively for destruction. Of course if you uproot something and don't replant it it is destroyed, but uproot still means uproot and ausrotten still means ausrotten. I'm not going to look for a 16th century botanical guide in german that explicitly uses it for uprooting and replanting.

The fact that you are not willing to acknowledge the old meaning of the english word exterminate should convince any english speaker with any inch of remaining doubt about your honesty on this subject.
 
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Wether the holocaust existed or not is one discussion. Should it have existed/was hitler and the nazis right or wrong about their assessment of the jews? Do they really control the world? Are they really a pest?
 
Hot Cup of Joe said:
Wether the holocaust existed or not is one discussion. Should it have existed/was hitler and the nazis right or wrong about their assessment of the jews? Do they really control the world? Are they really a pest?
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Perhaps better for another thread, tbh.

This is a thread for uprooting deniers, affirmers and revisionists.
 
Lemmingwise said:
Perhaps better for another thread, tbh.

This is a thread for uprooting deniers, affirmers and revisionists.
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I would like to see a poll of believers/deniers and which country they live in.

I reckon the vast majority of those who deny are american, and the vast majority of those who believe are UK/European.
 
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