The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Johan Schmidt]

Guys, people were mean to jews once that's the real holocaust

I dated a jewish girl once. I forgot to put her washing on when I was doing a cycle. When she got back in (after doing the shopping bless her.) she looked at her fully basket on the side, sighed and said 'This is some Auschwitz tier shit.' and was in a huff for a week. Which is weird when you think about it, since the germans did clean the clothes to get rid of lice.

 

[Bonesjones]

I dated a jewish girl once. I forgot to put her washing on when I was doing a cycle. When she got back in (after doing the shopping bless her.) she looked at her fully basket on the side, sighed and said 'This is some Auschwitz tier shit.' and was in a huff for a week. Which is weird when you think about it, since the germans did clean the clothes to get rid of lice.

You should ask her when is the last time she thanked white people for saving her from annihilation

 

[Johan Schmidt]

You should ask her when is the last time she thanked white people for saving her from annihilation

She moved to America ironically enough. Even more amusingly, he dad (he hated me something fierce) was a Polish jew, that ran three second hand shops. Bit of a stereotype really. She was nice enough, though she penny pinch like crazy.

 

[MadStan]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

Of all the sickly things displayed on KF; I've never seen a more absurd thread that this one where the denial of such an incredible event in human history is being denied.

If people can be convinced that the Holocaust never happened or was "entirely exaggerated" they can be made into pawns to believe anything. Absolutely anything.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is a sight to behold. Have you ever met someone so ignorant or so stupid that you didn't even bother to pitch in to try to steer them straight? There is a reason why only a few people have pitched in here (good for them too) to show the data because it is kind of ridiculous to have to be asked to provide evidence for one of the most documented events in human history. There is literally less actual proof of hundreds - if not thousands - of other significant events in human history than the Holocaust.

I'm surprised this thread even had the legs to go this far. A sight to behold.

There is freedom of opinion, and then there is the utter gutter of human ignorance; and the filth that occupies it.

 

[Bonesjones]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

Of all the sickly things displayed on KF; I've never seen a more absurd thread that this one where the denial of such an incredible event in human history is being denied.

If people can be convinced that the Holocaust never happened or was "entirely exaggerated" they can be made into pawns to believe anything. Absolutely anything.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is a sight to behold. Have you ever met someone so ignorant or so stupid that you didn't even bother to pitch in to try to steer them straight? There is a reason why only a few people have pitched in here (good for them too) to show the data because it is kind of ridiculous to have to be asked to provide evidence for one of the most documented events in human history. There is literally less actual proof of hundreds - if not thousands - of other significant events in human history than the Holocaust.

I'm surprised this thread even had the legs to go this far. A sight to behold.

There is freedom of opinion, and then there is the utter gutter of human ignorance; and the filth that occupies it.

Lmao nice lefty meme

 

[Johan Schmidt]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

Of all the sickly things displayed on KF; I've never seen a more absurd thread that this one where the denial of such an incredible event in human history is being denied.

If people can be convinced that the Holocaust never happened or was "entirely exaggerated" they can be made into pawns to believe anything. Absolutely anything.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is a sight to behold. Have you ever met someone so ignorant or so stupid that you didn't even bother to pitch in to try to steer them straight? There is a reason why only a few people have pitched in here (good for them too) to show the data because it is kind of ridiculous to have to be asked to provide evidence for one of the most documented events in human history. There is literally less actual proof of hundreds - if not thousands - of other significant events in human history than the Holocaust.

I'm surprised this thread even had the legs to go this far. A sight to behold.

There is freedom of opinion, and then there is the utter gutter of human ignorance; and the filth that occupies it.

"Oh my gawd! You want me show you data! Goyim you're just so ignorant. It's annudah shoah! Annudah Shoah!"

 

[Rapechu]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

Of all the sickly things displayed on KF; I've never seen a more absurd thread that this one where the denial of such an incredible event in human history is being denied.

If people can be convinced that the Holocaust never happened or was "entirely exaggerated" they can be made into pawns to believe anything. Absolutely anything.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is a sight to behold. Have you ever met someone so ignorant or so stupid that you didn't even bother to pitch in to try to steer them straight? There is a reason why only a few people have pitched in here (good for them too) to show the data because it is kind of ridiculous to have to be asked to provide evidence for one of the most documented events in human history. There is literally less actual proof of hundreds - if not thousands - of other significant events in human history than the Holocaust.

I'm surprised this thread even had the legs to go this far. A sight to behold.

There is freedom of opinion, and then there is the utter gutter of human ignorance; and the filth that occupies it.

Feel free to prove the holocaust happened if you feel you have evidence that Chugger missed.

 

[Michael Janke]

i think people are starting to get more based overall. not in a holocaust never happened way, but in a should of happened

way.
just look at the comments in this video.

 

[Marley Rathbone]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

Of all the sickly things displayed on KF; I've never seen a more absurd thread that this one where the denial of such an incredible event in human history is being denied.

If people can be convinced that the Holocaust never happened or was "entirely exaggerated" they can be made into pawns to believe anything. Absolutely anything.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is a sight to behold. Have you ever met someone so ignorant or so stupid that you didn't even bother to pitch in to try to steer them straight? There is a reason why only a few people have pitched in here (good for them too) to show the data because it is kind of ridiculous to have to be asked to provide evidence for one of the most documented events in human history. There is literally less actual proof of hundreds - if not thousands - of other significant events in human history than the Holocaust.

I'm surprised this thread even had the legs to go this far. A sight to behold.

There is freedom of opinion, and then there is the utter gutter of human ignorance; and the filth that occupies it.

It's the lack of reliable hard evidence that keeps people questioning. No one ever questions the fact that WWII happened, for example.

 

[Chugger]

Feel free to prove the holocaust happened if you feel you have evidence that Chugger missed.

lol we don't have to prove the holocaust happened according to some mysterious standard. it's enough to show that the evidence which you find so insufficient is in fact perhaps 10,000 or 100,000 times better than the evidence revisionists put forward for what they believe happened

eg you couldn't find any evidence of conspiracy to cover up resettlement of millions so you said resettlement may not have happened. then I showed you census showing ghetto population of Poland had dropped by many hundreds of thousands. To this you brought up something unrelated re wermacht (post that is too long to quote)

I feel as though you're confusing yourself with this history (which is admittedly complex) and that is giving you the misapprehension you have a strong argument

 

[Bonesjones]

lol we don't have to prove the holocaust happened according to some mysterious standard. it's enough to show that the evidence which you find so insufficient is in fact perhaps 10,000 or 100,000 times better than the evidence revisionists put forward for what they believe happened

eg you couldn't find any evidence of conspiracy to cover up resettlement of millions so you said resettlement may not have happened. then I showed you census showing ghetto population of Poland had dropped by many hundreds of thousands. To this you brought up something unrelated re wermacht (post that is too long to quote)

I feel as though you're confusing yourself with this history (which is admittedly complex) and that is giving you the misapprehension you have a strong argument

Aww look he deflects again. There's so much evidence to prove it, he just can't post it all guys. Its so overwhelming!

 

[Rapechu]

lol we don't have to prove the holocaust happened according to some mysterious standard. it's enough to show that the evidence which you find so insufficient is in fact perhaps 10,000 or 100,000 times better than the evidence revisionists put forward for what they believe happened

Can you show me the bodies please? Or the orders to genocide all jews? You're going on and on about "my amazing evidence, my amazing evidence!" but nobody has ever seen it.

eg you couldn't find any evidence of conspiracy to cover up resettlement of millions

I couldn't find any evidence of a conspiracy to kill them either

so you said resettlement may not have happened.

I said that the documents are unreliable and provided quotes in the other thread to prove it. Have you forgotten that so soon?

then I showed you census showing ghetto population of Poland had dropped by many hundreds of thousands.

People died during a war and the resulting famine? You don't say. We already went over this in the other thread too.

To this you brought up something unrelated re wermacht (post that is too long to quote)

The holocaust mythos has the wehrmacht as being a major actor in it. They allegedly provided soldiers to the carry out the genocide. The Wehrmacht had command over the Waffen-SS, I can't remember specifically if the General-SS was also under the command of the Wehrmacht, but I believe it was. So that makes them relevant to the discussion, no? At any rate, that isn't really a major point, it is just tangential.

I am just providing conjecture for why the Einsatzgruppen reports were so chaotic and inaccurate, which was stated at the Nuremberg trial by multiple witnesses. Just like with Belzec, there were some really absurd claims with regards to the amount of people a handful of soldiers could execute in a day. I am merely trying to explain these discrepancies. I don't think you've provided any explanation for them either, other than just pretending to have forgotten that this was a point I had already raised, which discrets your main source of numbers (IE the German internal reports). Whatever the reason for them, it is not nearly as important as the fact that they are noted to exist. So if you want to use the German documents as your source of information, you have to back it up with additional sources.

I feel as though you're confusing yourself with this history (which is admittedly complex) and that is giving you the misapprehension you have a strong argument

I think you're only capable of thinking in strawmen, which is why you are incapable of addressing anyone's arguments directly.

 

[Lemmingwise]

For those have studied the holocaust and for those too who lost actual family members to it, seeing a thread like this with the kind of level of ignorance being displayed for the world to see it astounding. It isn't even sad, just astounding.

It makes disagreements over government, politics and vaccines look pale by comparison.

So my grandmother died rather horrificly. She either fell while in the bathroom and made a complete bloody mess to make it look like murder scene, or it was actually a murder scene. True story.

Some of my family members that night were so distraught at her death, and not being allowed to see her corpse, that they wanted the detectives to cease investigation (altogether). Eventually they convinced the detectives to do exactly this.

That's what I read when I read your post. Someone who is so emotionally distraught, that you are unable to make any reasonable point. If people want to pick up sticks and sift through the debris, why not?

If it is the most well documented genocide, why is the evidence for mass use of gas chambers piss poor and self contradictory? Where are the remains of the 11 million deaths?

Jews were clearly targeted for persecution (like the unvaxed today), they were clearly removed from regular society (like the japanese in the US), and there are a number of examples of quite a few being shot on the eastern front, and in camps (see red cross documents).

Of course it is illegal to sift through the debris of the holocaust and the people that try to do so are persecuted.

If someone by threat of force tried to prevent these detectives from doing their investigation, that would arouse a lot of suspicion in me.

And the meme of being the most well documented? They were making 3D holograms of auschwitz survivors. I guess that is another type of documentation. Does that make it more well documented? There are also all the auschwitz testimonies that don't mention anything about murder or genocide, but those are not typically the one's shown to the public. Do those make it more well documented?

They don't even support the central thesis. What good is that kind of documentation?

 

[Rapechu]

COL. AMEN: And it is on those reports that you base the figures you have given the Tribunal?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

COL. AMEN: Do you know how those figures compare with the number of persons liquidated by other Einsatzgruppen?

OHLENDORF: The figures which I saw of other Einsatzgruppen are considerably larger.

COL. AMEN: That was due to what factor?

OHLENDORF: I believe that to a large extent the figures submitted by the other Einsatzgruppen were exaggerated.

Star witness at Nuremberg (whose confession had been coerced) says that the numbers given are exaggerations.

Manstein’s defense attorney, Reginald T. Paget, wrote that these claims seemed quite impossible:

In one instance we were able to check their figures. The S.D. claimed that they had killed 10,000 in Simferopol during November and in December they reported Simferopol clear of Jews. By a series of cross checks we were able to establish that the execution of the Jews in Simferopol had taken place on a single day, 16th November. Only one company of S.D. was in Simferopol. The place of execution was 15 kilometers from the town. The numbers involved could not have been more than about 300. These 300 were probably not exclusively Jews but a miscellaneous collection of people who were being held on suspicion of resistance activity…
It was indeed clear that the Jewish community had continued to function quite openly in Simferopol and although several of our witnesses had heard rumors about an S.D. excess committed against Jews in Simferopol, it certainly appeared that this Jewish community was unaware of any special danger…
By the time we had finished with the figures and pointed out the repeated self-contradiction in the S.D. reports, it became probable that at least one “0” would have to be knocked off the total claimed by the S.D. and we also established that only about one-third of Ohlendorf’s activities had taken place in von Manstein’s area. It is impossible to know even the approximate number of murdered Jews, for not only was Ohlendorf lying to his superiors but as we were able to show his company commanders were lying to him.

Another example of conflicting reports

"even this court was surprised at how conspicuously vague the existing 'USSR Event Reports' were with respect to location, point in time, units, and other details such as troop strength, armaments, auxiliary forces, logistics etc. Merely the number on a piece of paper, which was written or is supposed to have been written in Berlin, is too little a proof for a historian, even if the report itself is possibly authentic and only the number legible today on this piece of paper may have been manipulated, which at a closer examination of the documents seems to be the case."

Mattogno says that the documents are outright manipulated.

There you go nigger, I went ahead and reposted it for you.

>Hurr durr is this a conspiracy?
No, it's a systematic lack of discipline resulting in inaccurate reports. Or just an outright forgery by Germany's enemies who have been caught red-handed doing this before.

>So you are saying the resettlements and massacres didn't happen?
No, I am saying it happened but maybe at 1/10th the size the documents claim.

In any case, this is why I ask for sound evidence.

 

[Chugger]

>So you are saying the resettlements and massacres didn't happen?
No, I am saying it happened but maybe at 1/10th the size the documents claim.

OK if resettlements happened at 10% of the 'advertised rate' why do the various censuses reflect eg Reich territory's Jewish population dropping by 3 million, mostly between start of the war and 1942?

Mattogno says that the documents are outright manipulated.

I will second what @Lemmingwise once told me, which is don't just link me to what someone else says, make the argument yourself. It is indeed prudent for revisionists to regard many of the SS shooting documents, intercepts, and 'secret tapes' regarding these, as forgeries, because so many are obviously genocidal in content. But there should be reasons for this, evident in the documents themselves. I haven't seen anything convincing on this front however.

Now it's true that revisionists have put out documents that are clearly forgeries.

For purposes of comparison, I could argue this one is fake: http://www.nizkor.com/hweb/orgs/austrian/austrian-resistance-archives/ld-1.html

And you can have your choice of any document used in support of Holocaust. If you don't want to do the Einsatzgruppen documents I would personally recommend the Just Memo, which is the most detailed technical document about killing people with poison gas.

Contemporary German Documents on Homicidal Gas Vans

Exploring Holocaust history. Debunking Holocaust denial.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

 

[Bonesjones]

OK if resettlements happened at 10% of the 'advertised rate' why do the various censuses reflect eg Reich territory's Jewish population dropping by 3 million, mostly between start of the war and 1942?

View attachment 2767464


I will second what @Lemmingwise once told me, which is don't just link me to what someone else says, make the argument yourself. It is indeed prudent for revisionists to regard many of the SS shooting documents, intercepts, and 'secret tapes' regarding these, as forgeries, because so many are obviously genocidal in content. But there should be reasons for this, evident in the documents themselves. I haven't seen anything convincing on this front however.

Now it's true that revisionists have put out documents that are clearly forgeries.

For purposes of comparison, I could argue this one is fake: http://www.nizkor.com/hweb/orgs/austrian/austrian-resistance-archives/ld-1.html

And you can have your choice of any document used in support of Holocaust. If you don't want to do the Einsatzgruppen documents I would personally recommend the Just Memo, which is the most detailed technical document about killing people with poison gas.

View attachment 2767485

Contemporary German Documents on Homicidal Gas Vans

Exploring Holocaust history. Debunking Holocaust denial.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

Hey where is Hitler ordering the gassing of Jews? Where is the dead bodies of gassed jews? If they destroyed the bodies where is the piles of equipment necessary? Why can't you answer any of these basic questions before you dive into anything else?

Also pretending like hundreds of millions of people on Eastern Europe and the Middle East weren't displaced by war is hilarious.

 

[MadStan]

So my grandmother died rather horrificly. She either fell while in the bathroom and made a complete bloody mess to make it look like murder scene, or it was actually a murder scene. True story.

Some of my family members that night were so distraught at her death, and not being allowed to see her corpse, that they wanted the detectives to cease investigation (altogether). Eventually they convinced the detectives to do exactly this.

That's what I read when I read your post. Someone who is so emotionally distraught, that you are unable to make any reasonable point. If people want to pick up sticks and sift through the debris, why not?

If it is the most well documented genocide, why is the evidence for mass use of gas chambers piss poor and self contradictory? Where are the remains of the 11 million deaths?

Jews were clearly targeted for persecution (like the unvaxed today), they were clearly removed from regular society (like the japanese in the US), and there are a number of examples of quite a few being shot on the eastern front, and in camps (see red cross documents).

Of course it is illegal to sift through the debris of the holocaust and the people that try to do so are persecuted.

If someone by threat of force tried to prevent these detectives from doing their investigation, that would arouse a lot of suspicion in me.

And the meme of being the most well documented? They were making 3D holograms of auschwitz survivors. I guess that is another type of documentation. Does that make it more well documented? There are also all the auschwitz testimonies that don't mention anything about murder or genocide, but those are not typically the one's shown to the public. Do those make it more well documented?

They don't even support the central thesis. What good is that kind of documentation?

You want someone to post proof on a thread, on KF of proof of the Holocaust. But to not recommend a thousand books or visits to libraries that have vast stores or information or archives.

Would you read a single book recommended? No. Would you visit a library if asked to do so? No. Would you go too read archives that are available if asked to do so? No.

I'm happy to sit back and watch this thread lay it all out for the critics to mock privately about.

Next, you'll be an advocate for the Rape of Nanjing being entirely fictitious.

 

[Lemmingwise]

1. Hey where is Hitler ordering the gassing of Jews? 2. Where is the dead bodies of gassed jews? 3. If they destroyed the bodies where is the piles of equipment necessary? Why can't you answer any of these basic questions before you dive into anything else?

1. You don't need an order from a dictator for a thing to happen in a country. In any case, no evidence of such an order exists.
2. I have the same question
3. The claims of how the bodies were destroyed did not require extensive equipment, so the question is mostly moot. The flaws are elsewhere.

Would you read a single book recommended? No. Would you visit a library if asked to do so? No. Would you go too read archives that are available if asked to do so? No.

Nigger, I read about 6 books a months, half for pleasure and half for research. The latter category is all of this kind of stuff.

I haven't spent much time in archives, but if I had reason to, and access, I would.

I may only be a layman, but I actually do spend considerable time on this kind of dry stuff.

How about you? Would you go out of your way to research things that might challenge what you currently believe? Do you contend with information that challenges your current view? Do you endure the cognitive dissonance of reading arguments and evidence for positions you don't agree with?

Do you spend time and sweat to challenge your own worldview on this subject, to get it as accurate as you are able?

I'm happy to sit back and watch

Unsurprising.

 

[Helvítis Túristi]

You want someone to post proof on a thread, on KF of proof of the Holocaust. But to not recommend a thousand books or visits to libraries that have vast stores or information or archives.

Would you read a single book recommended? No. Would you visit a library if asked to do so? No. Would you go too read archives that are available if asked to do so? No.

I'm happy to sit back and watch this thread lay it all out for the critics to mock privately about.

Next, you'll be an advocate for the Rape of Nanjing being entirely fictitious.

Not sure if this is coincidence for a person who makes up bullshit stories to join this thread.

 

[Rapechu]

OK if resettlements happened at 10% of the 'advertised rate' why do the various censuses reflect eg Reich territory's Jewish population dropping by 3 million, mostly between start of the war and 1942?

View attachment 2767464

There is known to have been population movement of jews betwern 1933 and 1942, is there not? You're even beginning in 1933 which is before the war even started, when jews were peacefully emigrating from Germany.

I will second what @Lemmingwise once told me, which is don't just link me to what someone else says, make the argument yourself. It is indeed prudent for revisionists to regard many of the SS shooting documents, intercepts, and 'secret tapes' regarding these, as forgeries, because so many are obviously genocidal in content. But there should be reasons for this, evident in the documents themselves. I haven't seen anything convincing on this front however.

Now it's true that revisionists have put out documents that are clearly forgeries.

For purposes of comparison, I could argue this one is fake: http://www.nizkor.com/hweb/orgs/austrian/austrian-resistance-archives/ld-1.html

And you can have your choice of any document used in support of Holocaust. If you don't want to do the Einsatzgruppen documents I would personally recommend the Just Memo, which is the most detailed technical document about killing people with poison gas.

View attachment 2767485

Contemporary German Documents on Homicidal Gas Vans

Exploring Holocaust history. Debunking Holocaust denial.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

You know that when it comes to document analysis, this is the one thing where I cannot use my original opinion, I can only trust the opinions of skeptics who have analyzed it. Unless you're willing to get your buddies in Moscow to mail me the original documents and I can take them to an expert.

I humored you up until this point by assuming the documents are all real and untampered because otherwise there would be no discussion possible (from your end), but I did remark repeatedly on how screwey they were based on observation of their content, and provided conjecture to explain these discrepancies without disputing their accuracy. Instead of providing me with any explanation or rebuttal for the discrepancies noted, you merely acted like the screweyness was proof of foul play. So I'm going to have to stop humoring you that the documents aren't sus as hell.

David Irving testified at Ernst Zundel's Holocaust trials in 1988 that ""In October 1943, Heinrich Himmler, the chief of the SS, delivered two speeches, one to the SS generals and one to the Gauleiters - the Nazi party district chiefs, the governors of the districts." Irving had examined the transcripts of the speech and other archival materials [...] I arrived at the very strange discovery when I looked at the transcript of both those speeches that those two pages had been retyped at some other date. I can't say whether it was retyped before or after the bulk of the speech, but they had been typed by a different secretary on a different typewriter using different carbon paper. Obviously you only discover this if you look at the original documents which the average historian is not patient enough to do. They had been retyped and they had been repaginated in pencil at that point and I have to say to preempt your question, I have no explanation why. It just raises the fact that a document -- if a document has been retyped at a key point, then I hold that document to be suspect."

-David Irving

This is referring to the Posen speeches, but Irving gives us precedent here for tampered documents.

More from Irving (on recordings):

"I made the discovery at the time when I was writing my book on Field-Marshal Milch that some sound recording of the Nuremberg trials, for example, were also not of integrity. They had been tampered with. [...] I'm familiar with the fact that certain other recordings in the same archives are not of 100 percent integrity."

Arthur Butz says on the Einsatzgruppen documents (he does not provide evidence of tampering like Irving does, but he comments on how easy it would be to tamper with them):

"They [the documents] were mimeographed, and signatures are most rare and, when they occur, appear on non-incriminating pages. Document NO-3159, for example, has a signature of a R. R. Strauch, but only on a covering page giving the locations of various units of the Einsatzgruppen. There is also NO-1128, allegedly from Himmler to Hitler reporting, among other things, the execution of 363,211 Russian Jews in August-November 1942. This claim occurs on page 4 of NO-1128, while initials said to be Himmler 's occur on the irrelevant page 1. Moreover, Himmler's initials were easy to forge: three vertical lines with a horizontal line drawn through them."

So overall, the documents are held as highly suspect, and we have already seen precedent for tampering among them. As I cannot physically examine every document, and also many are off-limits to skeptical investigation, I can only conclude that they are viable only in a supporting role at best, instead of as the sole source of truth. So if you will humor me, a genocide of this magnitude surely has SOME supporting physical evidence... right? ...right?!

If you're posting documents talking about the legendary gas vans (which were actually employed by the USSR in the 1920s which is where this myth probably comes from) can you provide any material evidence of their existence? That would be a great place to start.