The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

I found a picture of 10 people in a square meter. I don't think this proves the gas vans are realistically capable of holding 100 people......

This is 100 people

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At 6 people per square meter, a crowd density is considered so high that the crowd "acts as a liquid" and individual people are no longer in control of their actions due to the pressure exerted on them by other members of the crowd pressing into them involuntarily. This is called a crowd crush.

So how the fuck did the Germans pack 100 jews into a small vehicle when presumably, the people inside are being crushed and panicking and pushing back. Can a few guards really push against the crowd weight of 100 people to pack them in like sardines as the crowd is pushing back? Are the German ubermensch stories real? Can 2 guards outmuscle 100 jews?

You're trolling yourself

How many journalists can you fit into one square metre? - Macleans.ca

The answer is nine. Barely.

www.macleans.ca

it's obvious that 100 starving people (and small--average Polish male Jew was 5'5) including children could easily fit in the truck. And remember my calculations were for the vans being filled to 80% capacity

so the question seems to be how likely is it that these starving, sick people with children would suddenly decide to do battle against armed guards, one thousand miles from friendly territory.

 

[Rapechu]

You're trolling yourself

How many journalists can you fit into one square metre? - Macleans.ca

The answer is nine. Barely.

www.macleans.ca

This is not an enclosed space, their arms and shoulders are blatantly hanging out over the edge, only their feet are inside the square. They are also fully cooperating with eachother and not panicked or being hurt by being smashed into a wall by 99 other people.

it's obvious that 100 starving people (and small--average Polish male Jew was 5'5) including children could easily fit in the truck. And remember my calculations were for the vans being filled to 80% capacity

You have guys like this too, so at least some jewish communities weren't starving.

so the question seems to be how likely is it that these starving, sick people with children would suddenly decide to do battle against armed guards, one thousand miles from friendly territory.

The hell are you talking about "do battle"? When a crowd crush happens at a concert, are the concerteers "doing battle" with the people being crushed against the door frame? It is a purely involuntary crowd movement from people being pushed on by other panicking people who are behind them.

So you are packing 100 people into a van literally as tight as is geometrically possible, with guards shouting and shoving people into eachother, someone gets hurt or has a claustrophobic panic attack and starts pushing back, and everyone starts moving in response and the pressure of the crowd pushes people back out the door. Or someone falls down and everyone starts tripping over them and trying not to get trampled to death, or trying to give them space to stand up. Or people who just don't let themselves be smashed into a wall or another person to the point they can't breathe, they start moving their arms to try to create some personal space, everyone in response is now being pushed back and crushed and is trying to do the same.

Are the guards just going to start shooting them in frustration because you can't pack 100 people into a van? This is alleged to be a top secret genocide, remember, so the guards would have to justify how they are treating the civilians at least until they are out of sight.

 

[Lemmingwise]

So you are packing 100 people into a van

He said 110.

to the point they can't breathe

I think that's kinda the point of a gasvan.

it's obvious that 100 starving people

Were poles/ russians actually starving before the arrival of the germans?

 

[Chugger]

This is not an enclosed space, their arms and shoulders are blatantly hanging out over the edge, only their feet are inside the square. They are also fully cooperating with eachother and not panicked or being hurt by being smashed into a wall by 99 other people.

I rest my case lol, nyc subway during peak hours gets tighter than this

Are the guards just going to start shooting them in frustration because you can't pack 100 people into a van? This is alleged to be a top secret genocide, remember, so the guards would have to justify how they are treating the civilians at least until they are out of sight.

Yah if people refused to fit into space clearly big enough to hold them the guards would start shooting.

What do you know about Kulmhof (Chelmno), the camp referred to in the Just memo?

 

[Chugger]

He said 110.

110 was based on the square footage inside the moving truck I used as an example, based on Just's stated capacity of 10 per square meter

Were poles/ russians actually starving before the arrival of the germans?

Looking just at Warsaw ghetto

From a Report by Auerswald, Commissar of the Warsaw Ghetto, September 26, 1941

The Office of the Commissar for the Jewish quarter was set up by order of the Governor General of April 19, 1941 (V.Bl.G.G., p. 211). Any report on the activities of this Office can therefore only begin from this date. But in the following a short account will be given of the development of the...

www.yadvashem.org

By Summer of 41, before Barbarossa, deaths in the Warsaw ghetto had grown to 5000 per month. Peak population 400,000. so at this rate by 1944 more than half of the inhabitants would be dead, and the food/supply situation wasn't even critical yet

 

[Lemmingwise]

I rest my case lol, nyc subway during peak hours gets tighter than this

Some feet, all shoulders and arms are outside of the square. And you're counting on journalists actually being able to accurately measure 1 meter. But you take that middle guy and he fits in three times even if three of him aren't staggered (shoulders exactly on the same line).

That "square meter" is probably one and a half square meter altogether and they're still not fitting into it, even at a lower capacity than your suggested 10 per square.

 

[Chugger]

Some feet, all shoulders and arms are outside of the square. And you're counting on journalists actually being able to accurately measure 1 meter. But you take that middle guy and he fits in three times even if three of him aren't staggered (shoulders exactly on the same line).

That "square meter" is probably one and a half square meter altogether and they're still not fitting into it, even at a lower capacity than your suggested 10 per square.

They're also barely touching each other, are all of normal size (much bigger than Polish Jews), and there are no children or babies there

Again, there's nothing strange about this kind of density (subway train so no riding on the top or sides lol)

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-07/26/content_12983921.htm

Charles Provan, who I believe was still a holocaust denier when he wrote this, was able to squeeze 10 people into less than .3 cubic meters, so the theoretical max capacity of the Gas vans might be 3x higher

Kurt Gerstein and the capacity of the gas chamber at Belzec

 

[Pepsi Max Respecter]

Damn this Chugger nigger just camps this thread FOREVER, extremely jewish behavior. My opinion is much like one of the early highlighted posts, that if it happened the jews have been extremely hostile to their saviors and if it didn't happen the jews are cunts. So either way the jew is hostile to the West. The pro holocaust narrative is filled head to toe with unreliable narrators and the anti holocaust narrative is far too often filled with socially degenerate individuals (sadly). Enjoy milking the sperg Lemmingwise and Rapechu

 

[Chugger]

extremely hostile to their saviors

I really have nothing to say here, I've seen no evidence of overt Jewish hostility toward white people (though yes understandably to anti-Semites and neo-nazis). It should be pointed out that in WW2 white people saved themselves more than they did the Jews, at least if you count Slavs as white people (because 10s of millions would have died or suffered greatly thru colonization and ethnic cleansing of the East)

but this is an interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73L7iY-Xhg

 

[Lemmingwise]

I've seen no evidence of overt Jewish hostility toward white people

What evidence of covert hostility have you seen?

 

[Pepsi Max Respecter]

I really have nothing to say here, I've seen no evidence of overt Jewish hostility toward white people (though yes understandably to anti-Semites and neo-nazis). It should be pointed out that in WW2 white people saved themselves more than they did the Jews, at least if you count Slavs as white people (because 10s of millions would have died or suffered greatly thru colonization and ethnic cleansing of the East)

but this is an interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73L7iY-Xhg

This is bait but whatever. Here's one instance of (many I could choose from of) jewish hostility towards the West, not just white people, the West. The easiest example off the top of my head, of this overt jewish hostility, was the obvious negative consequences of changing the United States immigration policy but doing it anyway. Allowing for hoards of low iq and socially degenerate people to flood into the country from 1965 onward. Commonly known as the Hart-Cellar Act. The Cellar in the Hart-Cellar Act was a Jew, who was vehemently against his country's immigration policy since the 1920s, the country that adopted him. So, like all Jews, he pursued justice for Jews throughout his career. Being massively instrumental in passing the Hart-Cellar Act. Which ever since has caused the RAPID decline of the United States ( a country in the West ).

He pursued his ethnic interest over his countries interest, because he wasn't really American and he wanted more non Americans in the United States. This was a hostile act against the West. The West was great because it wasn't any number of other shitholes like the middle east, africa, south america, israel ect. We get to thank jews for their big kind hearts for allowing these hoards to flood the United States. I'm so glad Mr. Cellar pursued public service for his community and after 20 long years finally saw to the destruction of the community he nominally represented.

P.S Mr. Hart was only 2nd generation American who was also personally harmed by the previous immigration policy which capped how many Catholics could enter the country, who saw to his own religious interest instead of the interest of the country, tsk tsk. That's why they call the Irish potato niggers I guess.

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Emanuel Celler - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chugger]

What evidence of covert hostility have you seen?

I guess a better word than overt would have been intentional--that is they are knowingly hurting the white race rather than doing these things for other reasons, such as making money, ideological, even ethnocentrism. As no doubt you guys would say, there's nothing wrong with ethnocentrism as long as you're not hurting any other groups. eg if they are trying get support and funding Israel they're probably not doing so in order to hurt white people in the US

This is bait but whatever. Here's one instance of (many I could choose from of) jewish hostility towards the West, not just white people, the West. The easiest example off the top of my head, of this overt jewish hostility, was the obvious negative consequences of changing the United States immigration policy but doing it anyway. Allowing for hoards of low iq and socially degenerate people to flood into the country from 1965 onward. Commonly known as the Hart-Cellar Act. The Cellar in the Hart-Cellar Act was a Jew, who was vehemently against his country's immigration policy since the 1920s, the country that adopted him. So, like all Jews, he pursued justice for Jews throughout his career. Being massively instrumental in passing the Hart-Cellar Act. Which ever since has caused the RAPID decline of the United States ( a country in the West ).

There's no bait, the topic doesn't really interest me but it tends to come up a lot in these discussions so sometimes I wonder. You think Cellar pushed this act because he hated white people and their culture/history (the West)? That was the main reason, really?

 

[Rapechu]

I really have nothing to say here, I've seen no evidence of overt Jewish hostility toward white people (though yes understandably to anti-Semites and neo-nazis). It should be pointed out that in WW2 white people saved themselves more than they did the Jews, at least if you count Slavs as white people (because 10s of millions would have died or suffered greatly thru colonization and ethnic cleansing of the East)

Uh.... no.

From an Einsatzgruppen report:

In Tarnopol 5,000 Ukrainians kidnapped [by Soviets], 2,000 murdered [by Soviets]. As counter-measures arrest operation initiated against Jewish intellectuals, who shared responsibility for the murder and, besides, were informers for the NKVD. Number estimated at about 1,000. On July 5, approximately 70 Jews rounded up by Ukrainians and shot. Another 20 Jews killed on the road by military and Ukrainians, as response to the murder of three soldiers who were found chained in jail, with tongues cut out and eyes gouged out.3

The evil Germans hated slavs so much!.... that they were launching reprisal killings against jews for murdered and tortured Ukrainians....?

 

[Pepsi Max Respecter]

I guess a better word than overt would have been intentional--that is they are knowingly hurting the white race rather than doing these things for other reasons, such as making money, ideological, even ethnocentrism. As no doubt you guys would say, there's nothing wrong with ethnocentrism as long as you're not hurting any other groups. eg if they are trying get support and funding Israel they're probably not doing so in order to hurt white people in the US


There's no bait, the topic doesn't really interest me but it tends to come up a lot in these discussions so sometimes I wonder. You think Cellar pushed this act because he hated white people and their culture/history (the West)? That was the main reason, really?

How do you read what I wrote and come to that conclusion, unless you're jewish? Cellar put his own ethnic interests over that of the country that graciously took in his family/himself(READ: BETRAYAL). The actions taken were selfish and bad for the nation. It radically changed the demographics and culture of the United States for the worse, that is an overt action by a Jew being hostile to the West. It hurt the nation, it helped jews, who are not/were not the major ethnic demographic of the nation. I'm not replying to your fun little definition change, I demonstrated an overt hostile act by a jew against a western nation. He doesn't have to hate the country, he just has to be indifferent towards the country. This was to show evidence of jewish hostility, thus jews are cunts whether the holocaust happened or not. It's just their eternal scapegoat in the west to continue to be cunts and hurt the West. By fighting their wars, funding their country, getting our people to die for them, controlling our money, media, education, politics and more. They should be, presuming the holocaust happened as they say it did, be kissing our feet for our sacrifices. They are not because they are narcissistic and hostile people. If it didn't happen, they're the worst creature to roam the world for the hostilities they've committed since ww2. Thanks for the milk yid

 

[Rapechu]

I guess a better word than overt would have been intentional--that is they are knowingly hurting the white race rather than doing these things for other reasons, such as making money, ideological, even ethnocentrism. As no doubt you guys would say, there's nothing wrong with ethnocentrism as long as you're not hurting any other groups. eg if they are trying get support and funding Israel they're probably not doing so in order to hurt white people in the US


There's no bait, the topic doesn't really interest me but it tends to come up a lot in these discussions so sometimes I wonder. You think Cellar pushed this act because he hated white people and their culture/history (the West)? That was the main reason, really?

The issue many people have with jews (speaking in terms of cultural outlook, not in terms of any sort of conspiracy of specific people) is that jews are outsiders and understand they are outsiders, and don't assimilate or do what is in the interests of the general public, but act in their own interests. This doesn't necessarily involve hatred, but rather a lack of brotherhood and common goals with others.

If I move to China, I would move there knowing I would never fit in because I am a foreigner, I would be barred from certain jobs or social life, or any sort of political influence. I wouldn't try to change Chinese culture because I would respect the fact that I am a guest and I have no right to object to however they treat me when I have come to them willingly, I would respond with humility, or if I felt unhappy, I would leave. I think many white people share the same attitude, I have never heard of a white man moving to China and demanding China be more accomodating to whites. They may grumble about being mistreated, but recognize it's not their place to demand the Chinese cultural mindset change to suit them.

But the issue is that many people feel that jews don't have this attitude of humility and instead demand that others make accomodations for them, and, conscious of the fact that they are outsiders, actively attempt to make the society they live in more pluralistic, which means that it is no longer a society that represents any specific cultural values. Or in other words, if everyone feels like an outsider, then the jews aren't outsiders, but the locals aren't a community anymore either. So it is the loss of a culture and community that people feel is atributed to jews (wrongly or rightly, I won't make any judgements, I am just saying that is the sentiment).

 

[Chugger]

How do you read what I wrote and come to that conclusion, unless you're jewish? Cellar put his own ethnic interests over that of the country that graciously took in his family/himself(READ: BETRAYAL). The actions taken were selfish and bad for the nation. It radically changed the demographics and culture of the United States for the worse, that is an overt action by a Jew being hostile to the West. It hurt the nation, it helped jews, who are not/were not the major ethnic demographic of the nation.

What is your evidence he did this to help Jews at the expense of whites? There are other reasons to push laws like these, eg Koch brothers are pro-immigration

I'm not replying to your fun little definition change,

Well that's what I meant so sorry.

 

[Chugger]

Uh.... no.

From an Einsatzgruppen report:

The evil Germans hated slavs so much!.... that they were launching reprisal killings against jews for murdered and tortured Ukrainians....?

Do you believe this from Einsatzgruppen report 24 ?

why hand grenades lol

 

[Chugger]

The diary of Felix Landau is also relevant here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ieww-gxcmQNQxIIhb0wGzTQ0O_XyjgSY/view?usp=sharing

Towards the end of the diary he reports on an incident where his compatriots killed some Jews and then tried to pass them up as Ukrainians murdered by Soviets. In his diary he seems supportive. clever propaganda I have to say

 

[Rapechu]

Do you believe this from Einsatzgruppen report 24 ?

View attachment 2777548

why hand grenades lol

Yes I believe these charges, based on the USSR having established a widely-known precedent for such behavior in the 20s and 30s. Here is a picture of a Polish POW, Captain Rosinsky, being tortured to death in the 1920s by the USSR on order of the communist party. As you can see, it was not even kept hidden, it was done publicly.

His genitals are mutilated, his hands and face are blackened from having a fire lit under him, and he was impaled by an improvised spear through the anus.

This is why the Germans considered themselves superior to the communists and talked about "Asiatic barbarity". Sure, the Germans would shoot people, but they weren't gouging out eyes or impaling prisoners through the anus with a spear.

 

[Chugger]

Yes I believe these charges, based on the USSR having established a widely-known precedent for such behavior in the 20s and 30s. Here is a picture of a Polish POW, Captain Rosinsky, being tortured to death in the 1920s by the USSR on order of the communist party. As you can see, it was not even kept hidden, it was done publicly.

His genitals are mutilated, his hands and face are blackened from having a fire lit under him, and he was impaled by an improvised spear through the anus.

This is why the Germans considered themselves superior to the communists and talked about "Asiatic barbarity". Sure, the Germans would shoot people, but they weren't gouging out eyes or impaling prisoners through the anus with a spear.

How many atrocities of this nature do you have proof of? Maybe some more contemporaneous murders of Ukrainians? (not Poles, who they had a much worse relationship with)

Maybe something where its clear a Jew was actually involved and responsible for the murder and vicious methods employed? (btw the Einsatzgruppen example you provided doesn't even state this)

I can list some similar things committed by racist white people eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Jesse_Washington

Vicious killings of this sort are clearly not par for the course for white racists--just because a few happened doesn't make it a trend or something white racists are even prone to.

In any case, Germans manufacturing propaganda about Soviet Jews killing Ukrainians is described in Felix Landau's diary. This happened around the same time as OSR 24 so is much stronger evidence than your single example of Soviets viciously killing a non-Ukrainian twenty years prior. You're gonna have to do better than this to justify stories of the Jews going around nailing children to walls and murdering people with hand grenades.

More counter evidence: we know that the Nazis didn't give a hoot about any dead Slavs, as typified in Himmler's 10,000 Russian females speech,

You used a term in your post "Asiatic barbarity". Indeed the Nazis considered this a real thing. We can see this in the 'Severity Order' discussed earlier which talks about the "Asian Influence"

Generalfeldmarschall von Reichenau zum Verhalten der Truppe im Ostraum

Der 'Reichenau-Befehl' über die 'Sühne am jüdischen Untermenschentum'

www.ns-archiv.de

"Go beyond the traditional one-sided soldierhood" what does this mean

Ah, not feeding POWs? Indeed the majority taken died in the first year, 2 million people maybe. They could have been put to work no? Concerning this mass dying out Himmler said it was "by no means regrettable from the standpoint of lost generations but is deplorable now for reasons of lost labor"

As usual, the revisionist argument backfires--Germans obviously didn't care about any 'poor Ukrainians', but they were eager to find ways to better justify killing of thousands of Jews . Justify for whom you might ask? Likely the various occupied people, regular Wehrmacht soldiers and even SS men who might not be enlightened enough to understand the necessity for such actions. Later on, when they started killing women and children en masse, the reasons changed to "Not allowing avengers to rise against our children."