The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

potato in mah painus said:
And people rebutted at how stupid hard it is to fit that many people in enclosed spaces, you are citing depictions of willing and organized people and not prisoners of war.
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People would willingly go into a train this packed but not if they were instructed to by people with guns and clubs?

potato in mah painus said:
Even then, the numbers of vans VS number of people they supposedly killed didn't add up.

No i'm not living in a alternative reality, it was simply 2 pages ago. You are simply goalpost moving again.
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Please link to the rebuttal to my calculations then. It doesn't exist. You are imagining things because of your need to believe that you guys are throttling me in this debate. I'm not trying to be mean or gloat or anything but you should realize that.
 
Chugger said:
People would willingly go into a train this packed but not if they were instructed to by people with guns and clubs?


Please link to the rebuttal to my calculations then. It doesn't exist. You are imagining things because of your need to believe that you guys are throttling me in this debate. I'm not trying to be mean or gloat or anything but you should realize that.
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"Guys I'm winning see I can totally prove you can fit 100 people into the back of this van no one can prove actually existed!" "What do you mean if they used them to kill people I should have to prove they actually died?"
 
Lemmingwise said:
He says that gassings took place, not that millions were gassed....
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From Jurgen Graf: https://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/david-irving-and-the-aktion-reinhardt-camps.html

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So to be clear he is saying 1.27 million for 1942, and more than 1 million in 1943. This is actually an overestimate lol, but he has to move some deaths over from Auschwitz. Irving's problem is there is no evidence of the "missing Jews" of Auschwitz being resettled, and he has enough integrity as a historian that he won't actually vouch for something that there is no evidence of.



JohnDoe said:
You don't have any evidence or authority for your claims, we get it.
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It hurts me to have to tell you but you said:
JohnDoe said:
It makes sense if you're translating from English because the Allies are manufacturing evidence to 'prove' a genocide and have tasked you, a prisoner of war being threatened with execution, to translate it into German and add your personal touches. Hence the very strange Americanism of 'Tommy guns' when the British would be more familiar with Stens or Sterlings or simply used the technically correct and direct translation of 'submachine gunners'. It sticks out like a CIA glowie in a dark basement.
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You were saying they weren't familiar with Tommy guns in Britain and more familiar with the Sten, which I looked up and found this . Tommy is Thompson

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Your argument that they would have used "submachine gunners" and not "men with tommy-guns" thus proving CIA plot?--I don't even understand to be honest
 
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I saw 6 million jews get gassed carries the same weight as I saw 6 million unicorns get slaughtered. Post the unicorns chugger.
 
Chugger said:
So to be clear he is saying 1.27 million for 1942, and more than 1 million in 1943. This is actually an overestimate lol, but he has to move some deaths over from Auschwitz. Irving's problem is there is no evidence of the "missing Jews" of Auschwitz being resettled, and he has enough integrity as a historian that he won't actually vouch for something that there is no evidence of.
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1. This is Graff as a source, not Irving. Graff said Irving said X holds the same weight as Chugger said Irving said X.
2. It explicitly says that it was not by means of gassing, so even if I take it as truth, it shows you had no evidence for your claim that Irving said millions were gassed.

Thanks for trying to fool me again, living up to your reputation.
 
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Chugger said:
It hurts me to have to tell you but you said:
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I asked you a simple question regarding your claims; can you read or speak German? Instead of answering that question, you decided to post all these screenshots of Wikipedia articles that, while related, do not address the central question.

Why are you so evasive about simple questions? At this point I can't help but think that you're doing so on purpose to obfuscate and hinder discussion.
 
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Lemmingwise said:
1. This is Graff as a source, not Irving. Graff said Irving said X holds the same weight as Chugger said Irving Irving said X.
2. It explicitly says that it was not by means of gassing, so even if I take it as truth, it shows you had no evidence for your claim that Irving said millions were gassed.

Thanks for trying to fool me again, living up to your reputation.
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You really want to believe that I'm out here to do nothing but play tricks on you, rather than just being too lazy to go through a video I've watched before to give time stamps

but in the time stamp I provided he says "What do I as a real historian fearlessly believe at this stage? I believe the gassings did take place, but the whole thing was an ad hoc operation ... except at the three Reinhard camps which were built as extermination centers"

so they were gassed there

and here he confirms the death totals once again . 2 million at Reinhard camps

mark weber (director of IHR, most prominent revisionist US publisher) at 59 minutes is also interesting
 
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JohnDoe said:
I asked you a simple question regarding your claims; can you read or speak German? Instead of answering that question, you decided to post all these screenshots of Wikipedia articles that, while related, do not address the central question.
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No I don't speak German, but I can read in general and am familiar with war history. My best friend growing up was German and maschinenpistole was one of our favorite words

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The wikipedia article just shows that Tommy guns were familiar to the British, and the most widely used submachine gun there up until the early-mid 40s. They didn't start manufacturing an alternative until 1942
 
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Chugger said:
No I don't speak German,
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Then how would you have any ability to call the translation of any dialog or passage 'correct' much less perfect? You can't just look up single words in Google Translate and say 'yeah its all good fam'. Though now you'll shift the goalposts and claim you weren't saying that the passage was correct, just that one word. Even though it isn't.

All you had to do was say "well I don't read or speak German so all I can do is show you this translation" instead of dragging this out for ten posts with bad faith posting.
 
Chugger said:
Is the term incorrect?
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It is. It does not mean 'thompson submachine gun' or 'Tommy-gun', it means 'submachine gunner' or 'machine pistol gunner' in the same vein as you might describe a 'rifleman' or 'shotgunner' in American infantry ranks. The term includes both the weapon type 'Maschinenpistolen' as well as the active user 'schützen' to denote a class of soldier or combatant.

Its as if I said 'oh, those are riflemen' and you translated it to French to say that 'oh those are AK-47s', you've not only removed information (that there are men with rifles) but erroneously specified the word rifle to a particular model or type without prompting.

Its a double error, you dipshit, which is immediately obvious if you read or spoken German, or after you posted your own smug posts.
 
JohnDoe said:
Its as if I said 'oh, those are riflemen' and you translated it to French to say that 'oh those are AK-47s', you've not only removed information (that there are men with rifles) but erroneously specified the word rifle to a particular model or type without prompting.
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But they translated it to 'men with tommy guns' not 'tommy guns'
 
Chugger said:
But they translated it to 'men with tommy guns' not 'tommy guns'
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moving-goalposts.jpg

Okay mister translation expert. You're right, the Germans were using Tommy Guns to kill everybody and then a time displaced Corpse-B-Gone from 3035 to poof all the bodies.
 
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Chugger said:
You really want to believe that I'm out here to do nothing but play tricks on you, rather than just being too lazy to go through a video I've watched before to give time stamps
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We don't want to believe anything, it's your own behavior that exposes you. I don't want to believe the holocaust is fake but it's own basic lack of proof shows it to be. So again:

Do you have proof Hitler ordered the extermination of all jews?

Do you have proof even a single jew was gassed proven via autopsy?

Yes or no.
 
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Bonesjones said:
We don't want to believe anything, it's your own behavior that exposes you.
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It feels like it'd take four days and twenty posts to get Chuggar to admit basic facts or answer simple questions. It's not behavior that encourages trust or dialog.
 
Chugger said:
You really want to believe that I'm out here to do nothing but play tricks on you, rather than just being too lazy to go through a video I've watched before to give time stamps

but in the time stamp I provided he says "What do I as a real historian fearlessly believe at this stage? I believe the gassings did take place, but the whole thing was an ad hoc operation ... except at the three Reinhard camps which were built as extermination centers"

so they were gassed there

and here he confirms the death totals once again . 2 million at Reinhard camps

mark weber (director of IHR, most prominent revisionist US publisher) at 59 minutes is also interesting
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Why don't you just say

"Oh, I'm sorry, I guess David Irving never said that millions were gassed, I accidentally conflated two separate observations of his."


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Fucking hell. I listened to the whole video. You said that irving said he believed millions were gassed.


I quote:

"From his writings it doesn't seem to be a very frequent operation. Just now and again. When a trainload came and they had unusable jews aboard. So these gassings did occur. If you don't believe these papers are fake and I don't believe for a moment that they are fake. The gassings did occur at auschwitz. But on nothing on the like of scale that gives power to the legend now."
 
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