The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[mrolonzo]

Mrolonzo,

Most likely because the numbers existed only on paper

Do you not believe at least two million Jews were taken by the nazis and either sent to concentration camps or deported? Or even just a million?

How many Jews were put on trains and sent to camps or deported in some fashion? Do you not believe millions of Jews were deported?

Jews were indeed taken away. So what?

You missed my point. Polish citizens still spoke of their deportations, even though this is supposedly “normal” in your world view. Why aren’t Jews speaking about this too?

Evidence of Jews being deported would exist in interviews, books, or documentaries, all of which exist for polish people who were deported or otherwise held in camps.


The revisionist narrative does have an ongoing issue with the exact fate of every jew

That’s not at all what our problem is. We aren’t asking where Diana Goldberg from Hamburg was sent on 1943 or whatever, we are asking why there exists no witnesses or any biographies or memoirs of any of these Jews who you believed were deported.

That’s why your demographic studies aren’t useful to us. We are asking for witnesses or memoirs or anything we can find to show these Jews did exist, regardless of whether the number is 6 million or 1.5 million. And since you agree you don’t have witnesses or other similar evidence, we are asking why.

1. Sources given above
2. What exactly are you looking for?
3. Why are you asking why and why do you expect me to know?

Well given that ussr and nazi Germany were not in diplomatic relations at the time, the USSR had no need for non-employable Jews etc this seems unreasonable. Nor is there any evidence of course

Revisionists interpret Europe as extending only to ussr borders in some cases, so out of Europe meant just beyond these borders

So basically your explanation for the silent witnesses is that their lives during this time were too common place to be worthy of mention, but what does this mean exactly? I don't think anyone's life in occupied ussr was common place by our standards

Why are you looking for silent witnesses? What are you trying to determine?

 

[Lemmingwise]

He doesn't go against muslims because they have automatic cultural protections given by shitlibs.

However, he essentially chooses this course because he is ideologically driven leftist. Thus the constant bleating about treatment of Slavs, about nazi 'larpers'.

He lives in egypt, tho.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

It's simple;

Chugger aka G10spana aka whatever
History speaks
Aves
Stan

Came in, made all kinds of claims about physics, were btfo'd. Then ignored page after page of scholarship then are banging on the demographic issues and are demanding to know where so many people went. When the issue with numbers is explained they assert that people don't just disappear unless they are gassed and burned then dug up and re buried etc and who needs bodies because we know it happened because it just did and anyway you need to answer where they are..

Let me rephrase I guess because I'm still confused.
Who's retarded and who knows the holocausts happened?

 

[History Speaks]

Zo does not like resettlement, so we can move onto another subject if he wishes.

Why does Himmler write to Hitler on 26 December 1942 (in the "Jews Executed" document from HC I shared earlier) that Jews being sent to Treblinka - namely the Bialystok Jews - have been killed? Is the document fake or was Himmler lying to Hitler? Can you post a "revisionist" response to this document?

 

[Aves]

1. Sources given above
2. What exactly are you looking for?
3. Why are you asking why and why do you expect me to know?

1. You haven’t give me the specific number you believe in, so we will go with 3 million Jews. I’m inclined to trust Kues + a million more to account for those not sent east

2. Evidence of Jews being deported would exist in interviews, books, or documentaries, all of which exist for polish people who were deported or otherwise held in camps.

3. If A then B. Massive deportations result in witness testimony and biographies, etc. Poles have it. Japs have it. So do Muslims and Hindus in the partition. And chechens in the Soviet era. You claim Jews were deported, why is there no interviews, books, or etc on the fate of these Jews taken east or west like there is for the poles or other groups?

 

[Aves]

Zo does not like resettlement, so we can move onto another subject if he wishes.

He literally asked me “why do you expect me to know” I think his ego won’t let him admit defeat here so he has to keep asking us questions.

Don’t change the subject, I want to see him squirm and say more ridiculous things like “why would it be a big thing to say ‘I was not murdered’”

You're not going to mosques and boldly challenging hatred. You're going to obscure forums to parse minutiae and practice debate. Your deeds speak for you: we can all see where you're going and where you're not going, who you're talking down to and who you're not talking to at all.

At first I thought you had a point but now you are being absurd. You want HS to go to a mosque and argue lol? It’s like going to a church and arguing that 9/11 didn’t happen. Wtf do you think will happen?

Do you think people will think “wow, he makes so much sense!”

Or “what the fuck dude I’m trying to pray here fuck off!”

He already said he will debate any Muslims he comes across so I’m not sure what you want from him.

 

[History Speaks]

I think his ego won’t let him admit defeat here

It is a completely miserable defeat for all "revisionists," and makes a mockery of the rest of their talking points about "physical evidence." They are neo-Atlantians - except they believe Atlantis existed in 1940s Europe - and are simultaneously pretending to require firm physical evidence for all their historical beliefs.

 

[Aves]

It is a completely miserable defeat for all "revisionists," and makes a mockery of the rest of their talking points about "physical evidence." They are neo-Atlantians - except they believe Atlantis existed in 1940s Europe - and are simultaneously pretending to require firm physical evidence for all their historical beliefs.

View attachment 3638023

It’s a funny picture but you gotta stop posting it all the time. We all saw it already. But yea, he can’t avoid our point.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

At first I thought you had a point but now you are being absurd. You want HS to go to a mosque and argue lol? It’s like going to a church and arguing that 9/11 didn’t happen. Wtf do you think will happen?

Do you think people will think “wow, he makes so much sense!”

Or “what the fuck dude I’m trying to pray here fuck off!”

He already said he will debate any Muslims he comes across so I’m not sure what you want from him.

So change 'mosque' to 'anywhere Muslims gather or live' and repeat the argument. Pedantry only looks like it has a point, but doesn't.

 

[Chugger]

Why are you looking for silent witnesses? What are you trying to determine?

I'm just applying some scrutiny to your story, like you do to the mainstream one

eg holocaust deniers often ask how Nazis were able to get Jews to willingly walk into gas chambers or gas vans

and I'm asking you about how if there are millions of witnesses to an event (resettlement) they have all stayed quiet. in your mind millions of Jews have not spoken up at all about their experiences during the latter half of WW2

Let me rephrase I guess because I'm still confused.
Who's retarded and who knows the holocausts happened?

you can figure it out, I believe in you

 

[History Speaks]

and I'm asking you about how if there are millions of witnesses to an event (resettlement) they have all stayed quiet.

It is not just witnesses. How come we have no trace of newspapers, buildings, letters, etc from this community of millions of Jews?

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

eg holocaust deniers often ask how Nazis were able to get Jews to willingly walk into gas chambers or gas vans

MP40's are pretty good motivations, the 7.92 Mauser is also pretty convincing if they're just running Karabiners.

This is very long thread discussing like 10% of the deaths of WW2. Regardless of which side you're on, it kinda misses the point does it not? Its like arresting someone .01 over the legal limit for having drunk too much alcohol because he's too dangerous as a drunk meanwhile ignoring the dude that just stayed up the last three days without sleeping because a new expansion dropped in his favorite game.

While I believe fully the Holocaust happened, but I also fully believe any lesson to be learned from WW2 has been lost. 85 Million people died either from direct fighting or casualties from fighting. Those people tend to get forgotten in favor of the Jewish Holocaust.

On that same note, even people who support the ideals of "Never Again" and look at the evidence without doubting any of it, have failed to live up to that ideal. North Korea has basically been a country wide death camp for nearly a hundred years and the west has largely ignored it. Genocides in Africa were subsequently ignored, and people being stolen away to slave labor around the world is still extremely prevalent.

The lessons of the Holocaust have been boiled down to "Never again, so long as it applies only to the jews."

The lessons of WWII have been boiled down to "Hitler bad."

Historically, we've failed regardless of which side you fall on, the entire debate about what really happened is stupid. There's overwhelming evidence the Holocaust happened and no amount of revising history or outright denying that will ever change it. The issue isn't that it happened, the issue is that despite it having happened, nobody learned anything from it and so we've just spent the last eighty years repeating it.

Maybe not to the same scale, but the actual body count doesn't really matter so much. 6 Million is a lot of people, but its also not a lot of people. What matters more is that in eighty years, no one has been willing to change and "Believing in the Holocaust" is somehow not considered Slacktivism while actually doing anything meaningful is covered up.

 

[Chugger]

It is not just witnesses. How come we have no trace of newspapers, buildings, letters, etc from this community of millions of Jews?

speaking as Adolf Chuggler, they converted several Soviet field armies into specially trained "document and evidence destroyers". they searched through every building in the USSR and occupied East for evidence of resettlement and systematically destroyed it

this explanation is going to be good enough for most deniers, but the witnesses thing is harder to resolve. mrolonzo is still only beginning to grapple with it

This is very long thread discussing like 10% of the deaths of WW2. Regardless of which side you're on, it kinda misses the point does it not? Its like arresting someone .01 over the legal limit for having drunk too much alcohol because he's too dangerous as a drunk meanwhile ignoring the dude that just stayed up the last three days without sleeping because a new expansion dropped in his favorite game.

While I believe fully the Holocaust happened, but I also fully believe any lesson to be learned from WW2 has been lost. 85 Million people died either from direct fighting or casualties from fighting. Those people tend to get forgotten in favor of the Jewish Holocaust.

It's a point that I've brought up before https://kiwifarms.net/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-97#post-12071216

and HS has also talked extensively about genocide of slavs, which deniers justify by pointing to food constraints

the main thrust of the war was a large scale colonization effort by Nazi Germany that they knew would cause tens of millions of casualties

but deniers don't dispute the facts so much here, ergo the talk is centered on the holocaust

 

[mrolonzo]

Zo does not like resettlement, so we can move onto another subject if he wishes.

Why does Himmler write to Hitler on 26 December 1942 (in the "Jews Executed" document from HC I shared earlier) that Jews being sent to Treblinka - namely the Bialystok Jews - have been killed? Is the document fake or was Himmler lying to Hitler? Can you post a "revisionist" response to this document?

Can you? I already asked you this. You point blank refused to respond. Why?

1. You haven’t give me the specific number you believe in, so we will go with 3 million Jews. I’m inclined to trust Kues + a million more to account for those not sent east

2. Evidence of Jews being deported would exist in interviews, books, or documentaries, all of which exist for polish people who were deported or otherwise held in camps.

3. If A then B. Massive deportations result in witness testimony and biographies, etc. Poles have it. Japs have it. So do Muslims and Hindus in the partition. And chechens in the Soviet era. You claim Jews were deported, why is there no interviews, books, or etc on the fate of these Jews taken east or west like there is for the poles or other groups?

1. 3 million Jews what? Is this backed in the sources I just gave you?

2. Ok you assert such and such would exist, so prove it.

3. The circumstances are not the same but there would be vaious possible reasons. Nothing much happened, they seek to hide their identities, they are told to be silent, they are executed by the nazis. Since the latter is refuted categorically with hard evidence one of the former is likely.

He literally asked me “why do you expect me to know” I think his ego won’t let him admit defeat here so he has to keep asking us questions.

Don’t change the subject, I want to see him squirm and say more ridiculous things like “why would it be a big thing to say ‘I was not murdered’”


At first I thought you had a point but now you are being absurd. You want HS to go to a mosque and argue lol? It’s like going to a church and arguing that 9/11 didn’t happen. Wtf do you think will happen?

Do you think people will think “wow, he makes so much sense!”

Or “what the fuck dude I’m trying to pray here fuck off!”

He already said he will debate any Muslims he comes across so I’m not sure what you want from him.

1. I won't change the subject. Im happy to stick to this to see exactly what position you want to get yourself to.

If you think something I say is ridiculous you're free to explain why anytime.

It is a completely miserable defeat for all "revisionists," and makes a mockery of the rest of their talking points about "physical evidence." They are neo-Atlantians - except they believe Atlantis existed in 1940s Europe - and are simultaneously pretending to require firm physical evidence for all their historical beliefs.

View attachment 3638023

Atlantis bodies were never found, neither were Jewlantis bodies, yet you want us to believe jewlantis exists and is buried in eastern Europe.

We're not defeated here. You are. We've established our unassailable positions, and admitted where there are problems. The we prove both our knowledge and approach superior and fundamentally disprove the holocaust. You yourself have admitted that implicitly by your repeated evasion.

It’s a funny picture but you gotta stop posting it all the time. We all saw it already. But yea, he can’t avoid our point.

Im happy to stick exactly on this point and talk directly about it. No avoidance whatsoever.

I'm just applying some scrutiny to your story, like you do to the mainstream one

eg holocaust deniers often ask how Nazis were able to get Jews to willingly walk into gas chambers or gas vans

and I'm asking you about how if there are millions of witnesses to an event (resettlement) they have all stayed quiet. in your mind millions of Jews have not spoken up at all about their experiences during the latter half of WW2


you can figure it out, I believe in you

Okay, you're just applying some scrutiny to the story. So you therefore admit that revisionism is entirely legitimate.

Indeed we do ask about gas chambers, and also research into what actually happened.

On what basis do you say there are millions of witnesses to an event called resettlement? We do have alot of testimony from Jews already, alot of bullshit too going with that, suggesting that those with an interest in talking were often doing so in order to Hype up a period of history. Making it possible that those with less to tell will say very little.

As for how they stay quiet, we have a number of possibilities;

Nothing much happened
They seek to hide their identities
They are told till stay quiet
They are dead

The first three are entirely possible logically.

 

[mrolonzo]

MP40's are pretty good motivations, the 7.92 Mauser is also pretty convincing if they're just running Karabiners.

This is very long thread discussing like 10% of the deaths of WW2. Regardless of which side you're on, it kinda misses the point does it not? Its like arresting someone .01 over the legal limit for having drunk too much alcohol because he's too dangerous as a drunk meanwhile ignoring the dude that just stayed up the last three days without sleeping because a new expansion dropped in his favorite game.

While I believe fully the Holocaust happened, but I also fully believe any lesson to be learned from WW2 has been lost. 85 Million people died either from direct fighting or casualties from fighting. Those people tend to get forgotten in favor of the Jewish Holocaust.

On that same note, even people who support the ideals of "Never Again" and look at the evidence without doubting any of it, have failed to live up to that ideal. North Korea has basically been a country wide death camp for nearly a hundred years and the west has largely ignored it. Genocides in Africa were subsequently ignored, and people being stolen away to slave labor around the world is still extremely prevalent.

The lessons of the Holocaust have been boiled down to "Never again, so long as it applies only to the jews."

The lessons of WWII have been boiled down to "Hitler bad."

Historically, we've failed regardless of which side you fall on, the entire debate about what really happened is stupid. There's overwhelming evidence the Holocaust happened and no amount of revising history or outright denying that will ever change it. The issue isn't that it happened, the issue is that despite it having happened, nobody learned anything from it and so we've just spent the last eighty years repeating it.

Maybe not to the same scale, but the actual body count doesn't really matter so much. 6 Million is a lot of people, but its also not a lot of people. What matters more is that in eighty years, no one has been willing to change and "Believing in the Holocaust" is somehow not considered Slacktivism while actually doing anything meaningful is covered up.

There has never ever been overwhelming evidence. There has been overwhelming propaganda. Quite a different thing.

And what the fuck does doing anything meaningful mean?

I have not read the "revisionist" response to Himmler's Jews executed document. Therefore I cannot provide it. And anyway you as the "revisionist" should be the one on top of these arguments. I as a believer in the mainstream history should not be making your arguments for you.

So I ask you again, why does Himmler write to Hitler on 26 December 1942 (in the "Jews Executed" document from HC I shared earlier) that Jews being sent to Treblinka - namely the Bialystok Jews - have been killed? Is the document fake or was Himmler lying to Hitler? Can you post a "revisionist" response to this document?

That's ridiculous.

I ask you again. What is it's provenance? You find some document and bring it to kiwi farms for us to dissect?

Why should a revisionist have to tell you what it means and how we know its real or not?

Why didn't you bring it to codoh? Or rodoh?

Please answer.

 

[History Speaks]

Can you? I already asked you this. You point blank refused to respond. Why?

I have not read the "revisionist" response to Himmler's Jews executed document. Therefore I cannot provide it. And anyway you as the "revisionist" should be the one on top of these arguments. I as a believer in the mainstream history should not be making your arguments for you.

So I ask you again, why does Himmler write to Hitler on 26 December 1942 (in the "Jews Executed" document from HC I shared earlier) that Jews being sent to Treblinka - namely the Bialystok Jews - have been killed? Is the document fake or was Himmler lying to Hitler? Can you post a "revisionist" response to this document?

 

[Chugger]

@mrolonzo

"On what basis do you say there are millions of witnesses to an event called resettlement?"

This is what the most educated revisionists believe. Non-employable Jews were deported en masse from the west and joined the large amount of Jews already there

the term resettlement is used by Himmler and in many other instances https://www.yadvashem.org/docs/himmler-order-for-completion-of-final-solution.html

As for how they stay quiet, we have a number of possibilities;

Nothing much happened

what does this mean?

They seek to hide their identities

why?

They are told till stay quiet

so now you have a conspiracy involving millions of people. the USSR fell in 1990 btw, so why keep up the act?

Can you post a "revisionist" response to this document?

HC blog has a three part article debunking Mattogno's claims

Holocaust Denial & Himmler's Report to Hitler on "Jews executed: 363,211" (Part I)

Exploring Holocaust history. Debunking Holocaust denial.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

 

[CowPox]

Are there other historic events that are illegal to question in some countries?

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Are there other historic events that are illegal to question in some countries?

Modern Day Politicians being retarded is evidence of an event having not happened, its merely evidence of Modern Day Politicians being totalitarian inclined faggots.

 

[History Speaks]

Are there other historic events that are illegal to question in some countries?

Yep. It is illegal to deny the Armenian Genocide in France. It is illegal to deny Soviet atrocities in Poland and Ukraine. etc.