The Hostility of Online Gaming - AKA: It's Only a Game, Why You Haef 2 B Mad

I blame Halo's community for when online gaming became "I FUCKED YOUR MOM", made worse by Halo's whole faux competitive format (being one of the first mainstream games to introduce quitting penalties and having a ranking system based on "skill") and the fact Halo was popular among basically anyone who owned a Xbox.

All you need to know about how bad Halo's community was is that it ended up spawning an infamous shittalker known as DJ Keemstar.

 
I blame Halo's community for when online gaming became "I FUCKED YOUR MOM", made worse by Halo's whole faux competitive format (being one of the first mainstream games to introduce quitting penalties and having a ranking system based on "skill") and the fact Halo was popular among basically anyone who owned a Xbox.

All you need to know about how bad Halo's community was is that it ended up spawning an infamous shittalker known as DJ Keemstar.

yeah this reminds me that console gaming has a fucking culture of "competitive shit talking"

like it isn't even about how good your shit talk is or if it makes sense just how much straight up horseshit you can talk without stopping, there's videos on this and it's fucking cancer

imagine wiggers emphasizing the word BITCH a lot and you basically get console culture ok
 
When I was an obsessive Counter-strike player in the early 2000's most of the players were shit-talking hyper-competitive pricks. The vast majority of them would have fit right into any modern 'toxic' community.

The kind of people who are drawn to multiplayer games, and the way they interact with each other, hasn't really changed. We've changed. You're probably 30-something and have a much lower tolerance threshold for screaming teenagers. That's just part of getting older. If you give people anonymity and put them into a highly competitive environment you're going to get this stuff. That was as true in 1997 or 2005 as it is today.

I don't recall swatting being a thing back then.
 
The thing I hate about this is that merely addressing this hogshit is merit enough to summon a tsunami of raging assholes down upon you for not "getting the culture", as if my vidya is that important.

I don't blame players for getting defensive. 'Addressing' the problem of game-wide 'toxic' behavior almost always seems to translate into ineffective attempts at micromanagement from corporate suits who only care about avoiding unflattering media headlines about their game(s). Banning a few streamers or high-profile players, overemphasizing some vague, unevenly-enforced regime of 'etiquette', encouraging snitching which in practice will be used to hash out personal vendettas instead of actually remove problematic players, etc. They know damn well that stuff doesn't work.

I don't recall swatting being a thing back then.

Swatting wasn't a thing back then in the same sense that social media and smartphones weren't a thing in the 90's. It's an innovation that would have fit right into the culture and times if only someone had thought of it.
 
i remember never being allowed to naturally learn how to play dota on warcraft 3 because every time i'd buy an item i wasn't supposed to or walk in the wrong direction all 4 members of my team would call me a dumb faggot and leave, hostility hasn't really changed much for random anonymous internet people that are super into competitive game genres other than there being more of them

I don't blame players for getting defensive. 'Addressing' the problem of game-wide 'toxic' behavior almost always seems to translate into ineffective attempts at micromanagement from corporate suits who only care about avoiding unflattering media headlines about their game(s). Banning a few streamers or high-profile players, overemphasizing some vague, unevenly-enforced regime of 'etiquette', encouraging snitching which in practice will be used to hash out personal vendettas instead of actually remove problematic players, etc. They know damn well that stuff doesn't work.

this however is the much bigger problem we have now. players and communities no longer have control over who they include interacting with them, the responsibility is entirely on the large company in power over the game. a company has entirely different goals and ethics in regard to what they can publicly find "acceptable behavior" and so while in the 90's you could be playing quake on a community server hearing some player over crackly dial-up teamspeak being a cunt and have a basic social process to see if the general opinion is to kick/ban that guy or go to a different server with different values; you can't contact a company and say "this guy hurt my feelings cause he was being a cunt" and have anything happen, that guy's a shit nugget floating in an ocean of normal players (that might have just been having a bad day at the time) that you could end up playing with at any time, and unless they want to appear pliable and easy to manipulate into banning people they can't play favorites with who they listen to unless it's making them look bad on a wider PR scale.

games no longer have a focus on individual communities they have "fans of that game" that may or may not play it frequently, may or may not be pieces of shit, and may or may not need their speaking privileges revoked; all from a random mix of backgrounds, countries, and ethnicities. you pretty much can't deal with a situation at this large of a scale without stepping on a shitload of peoples toes at once, leading to arcane 1984-levels of strict rulesets that are enforced at random whenever the outcry gets too bad or worse; automatically enforced solutions to social behavior that only leads to people being quiet as opposed to being people worth interacting with or people that expose their own shitty behavior. this is how you get players like this pro dota 2 player (at the bottom playing phantom lancer) who is regularly known for playing extremely well for 90% of a game and randomly deciding to wordlessly kill himself, sell all of his items, and AFK to let his team lose (as opposed to leaving which gives your resources/character to your team). in any smaller game community in the past this situation would last a couple weeks, tops. an admin eventually would be called, there'd be warnings, bans, permabans, blacklists, pretty much the second they became known as the guy that throws games all the time.

however now with how punishment situations are dealt with, you give people like this guy a line to skirt. if you tell people they can get reported two times a week, they just won't get reported three times a week. if you tell them they can't say "nigger" they just won't say nigger, instead saying other racist terms that are more subtle or not affected by any automated systems. you can't give people a defined limit to how awful how often they can be, or else it's basically an allowance that some people might consider they're wasting if they don't use. on the other hand you also can't give people too fuzzy a line and play every situation by ear if you have millions of players to take care of.

reward mechanisms that allow players to earn things by having other players recognize them as good people worth playing with seem to work a lot better, with groups of players (collectors, completionists, fashion/status people) automatically being drawn to whatever dumb cosmetic content they lock behind 500 "you rock!" stickers that the system defines as being given out to players that are worth interacting with. this gives players a skinner box-like compulsion to at the very least attempt to be pleasant and helpful and tends to make it their default behavior when talking to other random anonymous players, the difference between a league of legends player that's fishing for a commendation and one that hates anything that isn't the "you win" screen coming up is massive and it's easier to fuel that response than it is to change people by censoring and banning them.
 
this however is the much bigger problem we have now. players and communities no longer have control over who they include interacting with them, the responsibility is entirely on the large company in power over the game. a company has entirely different goals and ethics in regard to what they can publicly find "acceptable behavior" and so while in the 90's you could be playing quake on a community server hearing some player over crackly dial-up teamspeak being a cunt and have a basic social process to see if the general opinion is to kick/ban that guy or go to a different server with different values; you can't contact a company and say "this guy hurt my feelings cause he was being a cunt" and have anything happen, that guy's a shit nugget floating in an ocean of normal players (that might have just been having a bad day at the time) that you could end up playing with at any time, and unless they want to appear pliable and easy to manipulate into banning people they can't play favorites with who they listen to unless it's making them look bad on a wider PR scale.
Oh I wouldn't even begin to want any sort of company or administrator to step in and start enforcing censorship. I'm as large an advocate of "hands-off" moderation as you can get, since I firmly believe that most established communities are more than capable of policing themselves, with the exception of fairly extreme circumstances. I won't even bother with a report button 99.9% of the time because I frankly just find it easier to wander off and try to find someone less frustrating to deal with.

My concern mainly stems from the fact that having to wander away has become steadily, increasingly commonplace over time, and it's the rare day when you'll play a game with someone who's even neutrally-mannered, let alone a genuinely-friendly stranger. By-and-large I like to know that the people I'm playing a game with are having a good time, so I just can't come to terms with people who are playing a game and seem to be hating every second of it, it's such a jarring disconnect to me. I can't fathom how you could take something that's supposed to be an escapist sort of hobby to unwind and take a break from the stresses in the daily routine and warp it into something that's replete with vitriol.

Who in the world takes a break from the stress of their day to participate in something that only seems to fill them with even more frustration and anger? That seems so unfathomably depressing.
 
I think because the games generally have more players (and probably younger, I dunno what demographics used to be like) than they used to.

I think there's plenty of people that would be normal, but you wouldn't normally point that out so it'd get forgotten. However, that one guy that threatens to shit on your mum will stick in your memory.

Older games that are still around are alright, but probably because there's more ancient fossils playing it.
 
yeah it's too bad we don't have some kind of personalized server so we can make decisions on who we do or don't want to play with or somethng
 
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I started online gaming back in 05, it has, from my experience, always been shitty. The entirety of my online gaming experience from 2007 - 2011 consisted of bisexual furries with dead moms getting up in someones ass for the most minute shit. It's gotten "better" as of late, in the sense that it's gotten less social. People just get in and get out, the most interaction I get out of most games is an emote. Since 2011 I've only been shit talked twice.
 
The kind of people who are drawn to multiplayer games, and the way they interact with each other, hasn't really changed. We've changed. You're probably 30-something and have a much lower tolerance threshold for screaming teenagers. That's just part of getting older. If you give people anonymity and put them into a highly competitive environment you're going to get this stuff. That was as true in 1997 or 2005 as it is today.

This is seriously what it is, in combination that there are simply more people online in competitive games. I would say it's a lot like some of the SNES/N64 era games that people remember being really great, only to get an emulator and when trying to play end up going "Wow, I had really shitty taste as a kid!". Sure, I'll give you that it might not have been quite the same as tweens screaming racial slurs, but there was plenty of hostility back then, almost on the level it is now.

Ultimately though, as others have said in this thread you're going to get lowest common denominator types crowding into the scene, but on the flipside you also have the politically minded progressive types who pretty much picked up gaming in the last three or four years because they knew damn well they could bitch about the "toxicity" of such games, and how their "toxic" communities needed moderation and control - and funnily enough, they just happened to be the people that these companies could trust to help their image.

Now, just how bad it's gotten on most games in that timespan I would most definitely lay at the feet of those kinds of people, and honestly it's somewhat of a feedback loop: if the community is hostile enough that these types can't even get a foot in the door, then they don't have to worry about such molly-coddling bullshit. Now on the other hand, if a community is really hostile, then they will keep trying until they eventually worm their way in anyway and start instituting their politically slanted bullshit anyway, and the players who were like that to begin with are just going to find somewhere without the politically minded progs and so the cycle continues.

To be honest though, I think this whole thing happened mostly passively, without either of the two groups consciously trying to do what I outlined above, it's just a natural progression of things: the sjw types move in, kick out all of the folks who basically say "fuck you!" in response to increased control over what can and can't be said, and they go elsewhere. A few years of that and you are where we are right now as far as the playerbases on competitive games being more hostile than ever before.

Now with all of that said:

mute_button2.jpg
It exists for a reason.
 
I think it really just depends on the average age of players. I remember playing Starcraft 2 online when it first came out and whenever I rushed some guy online I'd get hate mail saying "ur real gay" and the like. Years later I've tried it again and now win or lose I get helpful tips and jokes that are properly spelled and everything.
 
Some of it is the "Eternal September" attitude, as the bar for entry becomes much lower. The lack of community is a major factor too, as other players are inherently seen as disposable now. It's much easier to kick out a noob and replace them with someone else rather than help, simply because there are so many people in the game, it's trivially easy to find more. There's just no incentive to cooperate or be nice. Look at the lengthy decline of WoW, for example.
 
I’ve noticed this in WoW and I assume it’s a problem in other mmos as well but as soon as a pug group does to a boss once in a raid half the group leaves saying stuff like “Worst group ever” which makes actually completing the raids a guild only thing.
 
I’ve noticed this in WoW and I assume it’s a problem in other mmos as well but as soon as a pug group does to a boss once in a raid half the group leaves saying stuff like “Worst group ever” which makes actually completing the raids a guild only thing.
When I'd gone back to Legion for awhile just to take a gander and try my hand at serious, end-game raiding, the guild I'd joined was on-course to be the first to down Gul'Dan on Mythic. We were making really good time compared to any other guild and we'd come within 5-10% of killing him a handful of times on the first night, and most of the wipes were just due to bad luck or to one goofy teammate standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. That night, the guild leader refused to continue raiding with the guild, and the entire raid group crumbled, all because the leader and I believe three other "officers" all bailed out because we "Couldn't down him on the first try." And then they joined another guild that wasn't doing nearly as well as we were, and were a solid three bosses behind us.

You're definitely accurate with the PUG mentality in that game, though. I was astounded at just how consistently rude and rushed all of the PUG raids were, to the point where they'd cause whole groups to get locked out of an entire fight because they were 10 seconds behind the rest of us. The community in Legion felt so completely alien to me compared to the community the game had during earlier expansions, or during Classic. I can understand the convenience of the automatic dungeon queues and PUG raid queues, but good Christ it made everyone so unbelievably impatient and so prone to treating people like disposable trash due to even the smallest slight.

I can understand the pressure to move quickly in something like a Mythic dungeon where time is of the essence, but when it came to everything else I just constantly found myself saying, "Jesus, guys, he just zoned in, can we give him two seconds to get here before we start?" Why even have a ready-check function if you're just going to ignore the damned thing?
 
When I'd gone back to Legion for awhile just to take a gander and try my hand at serious, end-game raiding, the guild I'd joined was on-course to be the first to down Gul'Dan on Mythic. We were making really good time compared to any other guild and we'd come within 5-10% of killing him a handful of times on the first night, and most of the wipes were just due to bad luck or to one goofy teammate standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. That night, the guild leader refused to continue raiding with the guild, and the entire raid group crumbled, all because the leader and I believe three other "officers" all bailed out because we "Couldn't down him on the first try." And then they joined another guild that wasn't doing nearly as well as we were, and were a solid three bosses behind us.

You're definitely accurate with the PUG mentality in that game, though. I was astounded at just how consistently rude and rushed all of the PUG raids were, to the point where they'd cause whole groups to get locked out of an entire fight because they were 10 seconds behind the rest of us. The community in Legion felt so completely alien to me compared to the community the game had during earlier expansions, or during Classic. I can understand the convenience of the automatic dungeon queues and PUG raid queues, but good Christ it made everyone so unbelievably impatient and so prone to treating people like disposable trash due to even the smallest slight.

I can understand the pressure to move quickly in something like a Mythic dungeon where time is of the essence, but when it came to everything else I just constantly found myself saying, "Jesus, guys, he just zoned in, can we give him two seconds to get here before we start?" Why even have a ready-check function if you're just going to ignore the damned thing?

Link curve before you even consider speaking to me or I will report you.
 
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When I'd gone back to Legion for awhile just to take a gander and try my hand at serious, end-game raiding, the guild I'd joined was on-course to be the first to down Gul'Dan on Mythic. We were making really good time compared to any other guild and we'd come within 5-10% of killing him a handful of times on the first night, and most of the wipes were just due to bad luck or to one goofy teammate standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. That night, the guild leader refused to continue raiding with the guild, and the entire raid group crumbled, all because the leader and I believe three other "officers" all bailed out because we "Couldn't down him on the first try." And then they joined another guild that wasn't doing nearly as well as we were, and were a solid three bosses behind us.

You're definitely accurate with the PUG mentality in that game, though. I was astounded at just how consistently rude and rushed all of the PUG raids were, to the point where they'd cause whole groups to get locked out of an entire fight because they were 10 seconds behind the rest of us. The community in Legion felt so completely alien to me compared to the community the game had during earlier expansions, or during Classic. I can understand the convenience of the automatic dungeon queues and PUG raid queues, but good Christ it made everyone so unbelievably impatient and so prone to treating people like disposable trash due to even the smallest slight.

I can understand the pressure to move quickly in something like a Mythic dungeon where time is of the essence, but when it came to everything else I just constantly found myself saying, "Jesus, guys, he just zoned in, can we give him two seconds to get here before we start?" Why even have a ready-check function if you're just going to ignore the damned thing?

Because we don't see them as other people any more. We have no loyalty to them, we have no reason to accommodate them. If they perform not as well as we demand, they are easily replaced. If they get loot and we don't, our time was wasted, since them getting better doesn't help us in the slightest.
 
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