The India Menace - Street shitting, unsanitary practices, scams, Hindu extremism & other things

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The similarities with Albanian blood feuds are tied to the ancient Greek concept of the right to vengeance, and to pursue it to extreme degrees under many forms, essentially a personal "war" until justice is deemed done.

I think this is probably a human universal, it's why the state monopoly on violence is such an important idea in western political philosophy

I think people would be very very served by reading Livy, Machiavelli on Livy, and Leviathan if they want to grasp why india sucks
 
Southern India does better than Northern India and very few of them even migrate to the west so in a weird way its kinda irrelevant from the western perspective. Hell, even when playing Pindia one trick is to drop into the far south of India as they litter significantly less.

Thinking about Izzat, its kinda funny how the most "honor" obsessed part of India sold out the hardest to the British. Southern India was a patchwork of small landowners and was taxed as such. Meanwhile, Northern India with its vast peasant estates from centuries of empires and invaders found itself the most exploited with its landlord class (of Indians) overtaxing their people and even inducing famines just to sell a little bit more cotton and opium to the British masters and build taller personal palaces to acquire more imaginary Izzat points.

(I learned this from the Vicky3 India DLC, I am not Indian).
Maybe the British exploited the concept of izzat to better control and pacify the Hindoo population, similar to how the French exploited the Muslim social/psychological concept of baraka to pacify and solidify the loyalty of the Arab and Berber tribes in North Africa.

I remember there is a brief exchange in film adaptation of Rudyard Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King", in which a British colonial administrator comments on the need for British colonials to uphold the izzat of the British Raj, with respect to their interactions with the local populations.
 
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I will say this, the issues for Chinese in the West come from the CCP for the most part. Not really inherent to East Asians in general. With Indians, it's inherent to the ethnicity, TPD.
Mind you, this only applies to the Chinese - judging by what we've seen from the Koreans and Japanese, they are words apart.

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For the Japanese, they live and die by "if it's worth doing it, it's worth doing it well". They never half-ass anything, it's always full send. And even at their most mediocre, they nail it at first try.


Baseball is now part of their culture and as it turns out, their Mizuno bats are pretty damn good.

If anything, we ought to be thankful that they are not this good at football or rugby (especially rugby given their Sumo background), they'd absolutely dominate those sports if they put their minds to it.
 
Mind you, this only applies to the Chinese - judging by what we've seen from the Koreans and Japanese, they are words apart.
If you delve into the JP nationalist xitter even a little bit, you will immediately notice how they absolutely loathe the chinks, understandably so, because the recorded behavior is a mix between what niggers and jeets do. Washing your hair or feet in public fountains/those little drinking springs, leaving trash everywhere, being obnoxiously loud, the works. Hatred for subhumans is genetic for the samurai.
 
Mind you, this only applies to the Chinese - judging by what we've seen from the Koreans and Japanese, they are words apart.

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For the Japanese, they live and die by "if it's worth doing it, it's worth doing it well". They never half-ass anything, it's always full send. And even at their most mediocre, they nail it at first try.


Baseball is now part of their culture and as it turns out, their Mizuno bats are pretty damn good.

If anything, we ought to be thankful that they are not this good at football or rugby (especially rugby given their Sumo background), they'd absolutely dominate those sports if they put their minds to it.
China, however, is three asian countries in a trenchcoat and WILL produce hyperspecialized autists. For instance, 90% of the world’s saxophones are made in just one village that’s obsessed with saxophones.
India however really struggles to roll out autists and standardize them. Japan might be able to mass-produce them, China can provide a stable environment for them to at least just exist, but India is outright hostile to them.
 
The question is not what we should do about them, but how we can convince the average American we need to convert FEMA camps into concentration camps for them immediately.
More than the average american is the average boomer since they are the ones that sadly still hold a lot of power and for what i can tell they either dont care or think they can be saved because indians stroke their egos just right.
 
China, however, is three asian countries in a trenchcoat and WILL produce hyperspecialized autists. For instance, 90% of the world’s saxophones are made in just one village that’s obsessed with saxophones.
India however really struggles to roll out autists and standardize them. Japan might be able to mass-produce them, China can provide a stable environment for them to at least just exist, but India is outright hostile to them.
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It's one thing to familiarize oneself with the concept of Izzat, but Cha Bu Duo is just as important to grasp. We deal with Chinese fake shit all the time, it runs just as deep in the Sinos's psyche.

That, and the Sino way of "saving face".

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Not to derail the thread, but I see plenty of similarities between both cultures.
 
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famous allegory about cha bu duo to protest substandard work by government employees.
I mean we have a similar expression with "Good enough for government work"
Sorta have the same vibe with "Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, thats why I shit on company time"

I must be missing the more subtle nuances with the saying.
 
It's an Arabic word /ʕiz.za/ filtered through Persian /ʔiz.ˈzat/ and shitted through Punjabi and Hindustani: /ɪz.zət̪/, [ɪz.zɐt̪], /ɪd̪.d͡ʒət̪/, [ɪd̚.d͡ʒɐt̪]
The third hindustani pronunciation is kinda like "idjit" with an extra "d."
t. linguist
So what you're telling me, the word has been digested and pooped out. It all makes sense to me now.
 
nope it's different

greek honor culture is never about appearances, it's about really embodying the virtue

that's why odysseus can return to ithaca looking like a hobo, but still be odysseus
This is such a good example for contrast. It doesn’t matter that nobody except the dog knows he’s really the king of Ithaca, the important thing is that Odysseus can still string that bow and shoot the arrow through twenty axe heads. It’s all about being able to walk the walk.

This concept of izzat seems to be more about talking the talk. It’s very, very important that other people believe you can do something or regard you a certain way, to the point where your actual ability to do it is secondary. Whoever compared their reactions to narcissistic injury hit the nail on the head.



The Chinaman or Indian cannot comprehend this level of submission to or interest in another culture.
The fact that weeb-ism goes both ways just tickles me.
 
I used to think LKY was pompous and just propped up as "The Great Man of Singapore" because he was Prime Minister and kept himself at that position for way longer than I thought he should've. I even thought of him as a dictator.

But learning about the world around me today and how it was in the past I now truly have respect for him more than anyone else governing Singapore. I wonder how he would've reacted to Trump's tariffs. Perhaps he would have pushed for more collaboration with America, Australia and the West in general to help them with their situation whilst bolstering our position in geopolitics.

That's just my daydream, though. I'll leave you all with a fun fact, the most recent riot we had in Singapore was in 2013 and was led by Indians. Hm...
Interesting 🤔. LKY is pretty much the only reason Singapore isn't a shit hole even though he was a Han supremacist who loved Doaism/Confucianism/Buddhism more than Christianity (he was a noted for his dislike of the religion)
Think about it. There are countless East Asian cultural artifacts the average person enjoys. Tea, anime, chinese pottery, hong kong action movies, japanese cars, taiwanese semiconductors, korean esports, etc. Now think about india, literally what have they intentionally produced that the rest of the world collectively recognizes for its excellence? Anything good in their cuisine is stolen from Persia or invented overseas in places like England. Their movies are excessively long and incapable of subtlety.

You could never meet a single eastern asian or jeet and yet still know the character of their respective races just by looking at their cultural products.
Correct. India has.... Yoga and that's an invention of the late 19th century.
lmao seething whitoid coping with jesus quotes while your ancestors were full izzat-mode barbarians, medieval uros dueling to death over a side eye, scottish clans blood-feuding for centuries over stolen cows, southern crackers shooting neighbors over "muh family name" (hello honor killings but with banjos)... italian vendettas wiping villages for a whisper, viking holmgangs killing for disrespect
Lol this was eliminated by the Holy Catholic Church and the Enlightenment.
loop back around to the divine perfection of Brahma, which is the universal divine consciousness that Hindus worship. It's weird and pointless but endlessly striving to become filthier isn't really any dumber than endlessly striving to become purer, like mainline Hindus
If you try one more time to make Hindus monotheist I'm going to scream. Hinduism has literally hundreds of thousands of gods and goddesses.
Southern India does better than Northern India and very few of them even migrate to the west so in a weird way its kinda irrelevant from the western perspective. Hell, even when playing Pindia one trick is to drop into the far south of India as they litter significantly less
Uhh bruh North Texas is FULL of south Indians.
KiwiFarms going viral again for explaining Jeet social constructs is honestly one of the funnier things to happen this year
Lol, when I saw it on Xitter I was shocked. Also horrified at all of the (probable) retarded normies that will make accounts here and post retarded shit.
Mind you, this only applies to the Chinese - judging by what we've seen from the Koreans and Japanese, they are words apart.

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For the Japanese, they live and die by "if it's worth doing it, it's worth doing it well". They never half-ass anything, it's always full send. And even at their most mediocre, they nail it at first try.


Baseball is now part of their culture and as it turns out, their Mizuno bats are pretty damn good.

If anything, we ought to be thankful that they are not this good at football or rugby (especially rugby given their Sumo background), they'd absolutely dominate those sports if they put their minds to it.
Well, they also have an expression for trying really hard at something or being committed to something without actually mastering it or becoming great at it.
 
This concept of izzat seems to be more about talking the talk. It’s very, very important that other people believe you can do something or regard you a certain way, to the point where your actual ability to do it is secondary. Whoever compared their reactions to narcissistic injury hit the nail on the head.
It's funny that this popped up, in thinking about Indian behavior it always struck me that it was like entire culture of Narcissistic Personality Disorder or even Anti-Social PD (Sociopathy), although I suppose the behaviors of each is close enough in this case. It's like the one video of that Indian guy losing his shit in an airport that was floating around a few months back, just no ability to back down until security or the police have to take his ass down. Since the post, it's wild watching Indians prove Izzat exists as they deny it does, no self-awareness at all. Truly an exceptional human specimen, they should be locked away, in a subcontinent sized zoo and studied.
 
See, people have got it all wrong. We here at KF aren't a bunch of arrogant, hidebound assholes, we're actually super progressive people who have been practicing Indian cultural norms for years now.

No wonder a moody prince had to create an entire religious philosophy about chilling the fuck out and letting go of meaningless conflicts.
 
Featured izzat post
I took the liberty of stitching together @GluttonousManSlob 's original post about the izzat concept, and several of their subsequent posts explaining the jugaad concept and how it all ties into the caste system, into one comprehensive post with some minor editing to make one cohesive explanation suitable for everyone, along with a few additional brief editorial inserts to shoot down common jeet rebuttals. I also omitted the profanity and the admissions about the author personally hating Indians: you could forward this to your grandma, pastor, or boss.

Izzat has no direct translation into English. We only have terms that can broach the same concept such as 'honour' or 'reputation' or 'face': Izzat is so much more than that. It's a zero-sum game of collective honour shared by whole groups of people, all of whom take it very, very seriously. A system like this isn't just foreign to Enlightenment values, but antithetical to every sensible form of governance on the planet. It will destroy any system that assumes good faith.

Izzat conflicts are not about who is right and who is wrong. It's about who wins and who loses. This means it's a zero-sum game where just about any action is justified (including murder) to restore the lost Izzat. Izzat is a limited social currency and the easiest way to get it is to take it from someone else. Winning is righteous in Izzat. Losing is unrighteous. This means that if someone plays the game of Izzat well enough, they can get away with just about anything (murder, rape, scamming, cheating, stealing). The only morality in Izzat is the protection of your group's collective ego. The only appropriate response when your Izzat is attacked is the complete destruction of whoever insulted it.

Two western people get into an argument: they might escalate, but chances are it won't be that bad, e.g. 'Sorry I broke your garden gnome.' With two Indians in an argument, the stakes are always deadly thanks to Izzat. Neither of them can back down, nor can they admit fault. Admitting fault is seen as deliberately humiliating yourself. Not only that, but because Izzat is shared, you are shaming everyone who shares your Izzat. So, admitting fault or taking responsibility for a problem is a form of social suicide. This means even if the dispute was over something completely stupid or trivial (like a broken garden gnome), it could spiral into a decades-long honour feud.

Izzat is also the reason why Indian police are reluctant to get involved in disputes. Because Izzat is a zero-sum game, all participants are involved in the game. If a policeman sides with one family over another in an Izzat dispute, this means that he's deliberately taking the side of that family and dishonouring the other. This marks him for retribution by the offending party. Without parties being able to be impartial, centralized authority cannot effectively function.

Let's say someone in India complains about a broken water pipe. Instead of the problem being addressed, the official responsible for the water pipe denies it's a problem and counterattacks the person complaining instead, because daring to question his efficacy in his role was challenging his Izzat. So the official destroys the person who brought the problem up. The water pipe never gets fixed.

Izzat is also the reason why Indian managers are so infamous for hiring more Indians. It's because, from the manager's perspective, he's using his position to gain an invisible social currency. Merit and actual qualifications come second to that idea. If he hired a westerner, he would not gain or lose Izzat by doing so. However, if he can strong-arm dozens of Indians into a company, he is gaining huge quantities of Izzat and conspirators who owe an absolute debt to him. He has a very strong cultural incentive not to be impartial.

It's not uncommon to see Indians gloat about their success in the west. And yes, Izzat is very much a system that enables short-term success. But the fundamental reality is the prosperity that these Indians find so attractive in the first place wouldn't exist if the west practiced something similar to Izzat. Our systems can only exist on the assumption of good faith, and not on a majority of people exploiting them for destructive short-term gain. On top of that, if an Indian causes the systems and companies he comes into contact with to collapse, then he can just go back to India with his plunder. He has no stake in the long-term prosperity, functionality, or stability of these systems. The stakes are completely asymmetrical in the Indian's favour.

You may have seen the infamous video of that Indian scamming a food bank. Once again, winning is righteous, losing is not. By employing 'clever' means (jugaad), he successfully extracted more resources for himself and his family. From the perspective of jugaad, a rule is not something to respect, but merely an obstacle to the Indian's own gain. Since he cheated the system and wasn't caught, he is seen as a righteous and dignified man in the Izzat framework.

Jugaad is seen as a clever workaround using limited resources. Indians frame it as being some profound philosophical aspect about navigating their culture, but what it can be more accurately described as is having no scruples and exploiting things for your own gain. For example, with the water pipe problem, you contact a cousin of a cousin, you bribe the right official, and now you can have a new water pipe connected to your house. Jugaad is celebrated among Indians as being resourceful or inventive, as you're beating the system with your own ingenuity. Pulling off a 'clever' jugaad scheme is a way to earn yourself Izzat.

It doesn't matter if your jugaad is ripping off a charity or scamming a dementia-ridden grandmother of her life savings. If it achieves the ends you wanted, then you're celebrated. But when your jugaad doesn't play out the way you want, it's a loss of Izzat because you look stupid. Izzat is about the ends, not the means.

The western idea of merit is competence in a role. Merit in Izzat is determined by what lengths you will go to to achieve a goal, with competence merely being one path. It often becomes a secondary path, as the jugaad of printing a degree that says you're qualified to be a jet pilot is just as good as being able to actually fly a jet in the eyes of Izzat. In other words, Izzat selects for appearance over authentic merit or morality.

I read a story in India about a man offering to pay another man to use a public toilet instead of defecating openly. The latter left and came back with several friends and beat the former to death. The problem was not that he was defecating openly, but that he was criticised for doing so. And with Izzat, it's not an eye-for-an-eye. Izzat is often an eye-for-a-whole-head. Disproportionately and brutally annihilating your enemies is the correct move to make because you take back your lost Izzat and then some. This kind of vindictiveness would be rightly seen as horrifying and disgusting in most of the world.

Izzat is also very successful against more passive ideologies. While there are competing schools of thought in India such as Dharma, the harsh reality is an Izzat adherent who doesn't care about Dharmic values is going to slaughter someone who does with a knife.

There was a story posted anonymously on 4chan: Anon knew an Indian. This Indian would make outlandish claims (he could benchpress 500kg, he was a billionaire, he did arms deals with the US government). Anon said he didn't believe the Indian. The Indian reacted with righteous indignation. The situation escalated to the point where the Indian was emailing Anon death threats. Anon responded by forwarding the emails to the police. The Indian killed himself. Anon was left baffled at the whole situation and had no idea what just happened.

So, without Izzat, this looks like an utterly insane and pointless sequence of events. But with Izzat? The Indian's actions suddenly make sense. He was boasting to increase his Izzat, and when Anon simply stated his disbelief, it was seen as a vicious attack on his Izzat. The Indian escalated the situation to restore the lost Izzat. When the police got involved, the dispute had become public, so the Indian's shame at having his jugaad exposed had increased to unbearable levels. He committed suicide in order to save his remaining Izzat. Anon had no idea what Izzat was, or if he did, he didn't mention it, yet the Indian's actions perfectly align with this framework. This is what makes me believe the story was genuine.

Now, a counterargument an Indian might make to all this is 'Izzat is a dated word' or 'We don't use that word' or even that Izzat is actually Pakistani or confined to certain regions of northern India, but the same concept exists in the rest of India under other names, such as 'maana'. I like to compare it to the word 'vendetta'. Vendetta in Italian has a very specific meaning: a familial blood feud where revenge must be taken to restore honour, etc. This word would not exist if this didn't reflect a specific facet of Italian life. Izzat is no different. Izzat isn't an archaic term either. It's well and truly alive in the modern Indian lexicon.

One of the subtleties to keep in mind about this topic is that it's about a system. Indians may claim 'not all Indians' as a quick deflection, but that's not the point. The point is this system exists and it's had real, serious consequences for generations. If it wasn't a real phenomenon in Indian society, Izzat wouldn't exist as a term.

If Izzat were regularly discussed openly, this would be considered one of the greatest possible insults in the Izzat framework. Izzat is why Indians do mass reports, death threats, false flags and various other underhanded tactics when a westerner exposes something they don't want people to see (such as the now-infamous poop-throwing festival, or widespread academic and professional cheating). If I knew something like that existed in the west, I would say 'wow that's disgusting, we should stop this'. But to Indians, the problem is not the point. The point is the problem being exposed and the perceived insult to Indian Izzat from exposing the problem. The water pipe never gets fixed.

The one saving grace is Izzat performs awfully in the long term. Once Indians displace you, they will go back to playing this insane game among themselves. It's what happened to companies that got hit by Izzat. This is also why there aren't any homegrown Indian companies that have the same influence as Microsoft or Google. Whenever they start getting ahead, their companies implode from infighting, nobody doing their jobs, everybody trying to cheat each other and nobody addressing critical issues. Systems that delegate authority and work on good faith eventually win out over zero-sum honour feuding. Izzat cannot maintain complex systems because its players are only concerned with short-term gain.

With the west, the issue is that it often fails to live up to its own ideals. It's not a perfect system, but we can course-correct and address problems pragmatically. With Izzat, Indians live up to those ideals very, very often. When you see the dysfunctionality of India, remember that it's a feature of Izzat, not a bug.

There were several similar practices in the west (like the aforementioned vendetta) which were eventually eradicated because these groups were unable to resist the state's monopoly on violence. As I said before, because the police are also dragged into Izzat, the Indian state is unable to intervene or destroy Izzat. Izzat thrives in places where a central authority is unable to step in and stomp it out.

Izzat and the Indian caste system go hand-in-hand. Your caste determines your Izzat. Let's take Dalits, for example: the 'untouchables', the lowest caste. They are treated as living, breathing Izzat blackholes. Them acting beyond their station (e.g. dressing nicely, growing a moustache) is seen as an collective affront to every other caste's Izzat. A Dalit man refusing to let his daughter marry a higher caste Indian is instant grounds for an Izzat feud, one which the Dalit will most certainly lose for the crime of being born into a lower caste.

There was another story, of a Dalit man who owned a horse. Everyone around him screamed at him that he couldn't own and ride a horse because he was offending everyone else's Izzat. He refused to stop riding the horse, so on the day of his wedding, he was hacked to pieces with machetes. Izzat acts as the brutal enforcer of caste. The pointless cruelty inflicted on Dalits is really sad.

If, say, a Dalit man questions a Brahmin man's work, a man of the highest, most noble caste: this isn't just an affront to the Brahmin's abilities, it's an affront to his honour as a person and the honour of his entire caste. If he concedes, he's losing large chunks of Izzat for his entire caste, while the Dalit questioning him doesn't really gain anything. He's not benefiting from questioning someone's work, there's no transaction here. In order to gain this Izzat back, or to get even more out of it, the Brahmin group is incentivised to avenge with the utmost brutality imaginable. The Dalit would not only face punishment, but everybody associated with him would also suffer collective be-izzati (dishonour) from him daring to question his Brahmin superior. There's no gain to be had from criticism, so what Izzat does is dissuade people from speaking their minds out of fear of punishment.

You could absolutely weaponize Izzat against Indians. However, the best and most pragmatic approach to dealing with this system is enforcing impartiality. Hit them hard with anti-conspiracy laws. Izzat absolutely qualifies as a cultural conspiracy. Singapore was able to reform itself thanks to brutally rooting out corruption.

If you want to find more academic sources on the concept of Izzat, you need to search for 'honour culture' or 'honour culture south east asia', honour culture being the more formal academic term for the Izzat phenomenon. You'll find a lot of results for honour killing (practiced in order to restore Izzat).

The Chinese concept of 'face' is similar, but the biggest difference is how they react to such dishonor. You can find similar honour disputes in Indonesia too. The Philippines has a term called hiya. But the Indians, by far, are the worst about it, and certainly the most pernicious and immediately dangerous to the west.
 
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