The Language Learning Thread - Interested in learning a new language? Already learning a language and wanna share your experiences? Need to find a partner to practice with? Come sperg here!

[Alex Hogendorp]

Anyways I've been having fun with the app Tandem. Talking with people in Spanish and receiving compliments by many people when I use it well.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

I've now been completely able the read the Russian alphabet and it's pretty straightforward the fact they're called what it's said. It also helps a lot with me pronouncing them better as I eventually will get used to saying them. In many ways russian is easier than Spanish because the end of the words if pronounced wrong doesn't render you incomprehensible, dialects are similar and word order don't matter to much and russians aren't so judgemental and want to speak russian with me. With that being said. I'm happy I gotten pretty far with Spanish despite the obstacles not so present in russian.

 

[Sy Sperling]

I learned Arabic (Modern Standard Dialect) from my time as a ZOGbot. I can speak it, read it, write it pretty well. I'm no longer completely fluent, but you could drop me in a souk or restaurant and I'd be just fine. I can also understand the news and those Arab debate shows like MemriTV pretty well.
I know Spanish by osmosis from proximity to Mexicans. I can't speak it, but I can read it and understand the spoken word.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

I make sure when reading Japanese kana and Cyrillic that I remind myself to memorize them once in awhile to be sure it would be hard pressed in my brain. I'm pretty much set on making basic conversations with Spanish locals so Spanish is what I got the most out of so far. It's only a matter of time until I become fluent in Spanish. I still only know a few words in Japanese and Russian though but when I get that out of the way, the process is gonna speed up like my Spanish.

 

[gurfan]

too many synonyms that came from french in english. e.g. the verb "to spring up " contains the same meaning as the verb "to appear". only "to appear" came from french while "to spring" is the original saxon word. and yet, it is the french variant that is preferred.
"the moon sprung up from the clouds" returns 0 results.
"the moon appeared from the clouds" returns 15 results.

 

[Devout Muslim]

Funnily enough, I took a Mandarin class sponsored by the Taiwanese government during the Autumn 2023 semester. I didn't retain anywhere near as much as I thought I would, but my instructor most certainly imparted the importance of stroke order to Mandarin learning. Before I took that class, the only words I would instinctively recognise would be... obscure, to say the least.

I would say that learning to write mandarin is hugely beneficial in learning to read mandarin. Stroke order is also a significant advantage because you develop a muscle memory. Learning Pianpeng and bushou (the reused subunits of characters) is also important, because it reduces a character from a complex collection of say 25 lines to a simple arrangement 2 or 3 known units. Imo the best way to learn is to visit a China town (or China) and buy children’s writing books for pianpeng/bushou/basic characters.

Others in this thread have recommended against using pinyin but I had no issues with it. I think bomofo or whatever is only really a Tw thing anyway. When learning to read any language written in the latin script you need to learn the phonetic mapping, you can’t just assume it’s as per your native tongue. Even consonants as innocuous as t are pronounced differently in different languages.

 

[the rat]

I forgot how annoying doing stuff like this was but it is needed so that it sticks in my fucking head. I've figured I would give learning at least some of a different language a go considering with all my other attempts at learning something other than English I never actually tried. I now have a pirated copy of Genki so it was just like, why not Japanese?

What I'm doing at the moment is just writing down everything multiple times on paper to try get what strokes are what imprinted in my forgetful brain. It should probably also help if I use other words that use the same strokes (or should I be saying characters? I'm honestly unsure) like say こんいちは (ko-n-ni-chi-ha) and こんばんは (ko-n-ba-n-ha) where both words have こ (ko), ん (n) and は (ha).

I am aware that this is likely for the best and hopefully I will actually get this jammed into my stupid fucking brain but that doesn't make it any less annoying lol.

I do wonder however if I'm going about this in a really stupid way though? Maybe it is just me.

 

[General Woundwort]

I'm trying to learn German but I have no idea where to really start. Is the self-teaching course from the Goethe Institute any good? Do I just brute force it and turn all my settings on everything into German? I've got some vocab books and some 'learn to read' books but it's just memorization, not how to use the language. Duolingo is okayish for basic vocab but it feels kinda shitty cause I know I should be using something else.

I've got through some of the Goethe's A1 preparation but don't really know how to progress. I looked for classes near me, but my country is incredibly hostile to learning languages, and the only class I found was 2hours a week for 8 weeks, which also claimed to make you fluent.
I'm not sure what the bar is for considering yourself fluent, but I don't think being able to say Hello/Goodbye, Please/Thanks, and Where is the toilet? is it. I always figured fluency is when you no longer have to translate in your head, which isn't going to happen in 16 hours.

My questions are kind of rhetorical but kind of not. German seems a popular one to 'want' to learn but people never seem to, or they give up super quick. I can also not get that rolled R sound lol

 

[ChaosReignsOnSomeSaturday]

So when does it actually click in your brain and you realize you actually now know a 2nd language? Is learning a 2nd language really just memorization?

 

[Florch]

I'd be interested to hear (LOL) from any ASL users, their recommend resources for learning?
I use another signed language so am familiar with 'protocol' (grammar structure, use of space, NMF etc) -
I am seeking more vocab-building..

 

[pork and beans]

So when does it actually click in your brain and you realize you actually now know a 2nd language? Is learning a 2nd language really just memorization?

I think it just does. I remember being ok-ish at english not really getting it until i suddenly could, i think from being on the internet too much. I think it's immersion and imitation rather than memorization, because i literally never studied; i remember writing as a kid on class homework "tho" because that's what i saw online and despite not being able to explain what it meant at the time I used it correctly and stuff. At that point you think on both languages and everything, total bilingualism and whatever.

Me personally I'm in the process of learning other 2 and I haven't gotten to that part yet, but sometimes they sneak up on me when I sleep LOL.

I'm trying to learn German

ich auch alter

2hours a week for 8 weeks, which also claimed to make you fluent.

I have it as a class subject and this term I have 3 hours a week; so its not much but it's not that bad. Definitely won't be fluent, probably a nice introduction for A.1.1 or A.1.2 depending on how demanding it is. If it's not too expensive I'd consider it.

I can also not get that rolled R sound lol

keep trying!! i honestly could not do it until suddenly i could. dont take it too seriosuly, just whenever youre studying read the words aloud and really try to make it vibrate and you'll get it. you'll do it If you know how to roll your r's you can do that and copy the bavarians. That's what my german teacher does, lol.

Duolingo is okayish

Honestly I think duolingo is kinda trash for languages with cases because from what i know it doesnt teach you the rules but it isnt that immersive either so its hard to comprehend.

 

[General Woundwort]

keep trying!! i honestly could not do it until suddenly i could. dont take it too seriosuly, just whenever youre studying read the words aloud and really try to make it vibrate and you'll get it.

I can get the trilled R of the Swedes no problem, but the German.. argh lol Is it done more in the back of the mouth? Like a throat sound? I've watched a bunch of youtube vids and spent time trying to get it, and think I nailed it maybe twice. But they all say different things about which part of the mouth it originates.

Honestly I think duolingo is kinda trash for languages with cases because from what i know it doesnt teach you the rules but it isnt that immersive either so its hard to comprehend.

Yeah, what I mean by okayish is it's okay to pick up a little vocabulary in the 5 minutes you're taking a shit. Beats reading the back of the shampoo bottles anyway. But it's not a serious language learning tool. At most it's for dabbling to see if you like a language and want to get more serious about picking it up.

 

[pork and beans]

argh lol Is it done more in the back of the mouth? Like a throat sound?

Yeah I think so. It’s kinda like the g sound but different, I don’t know. Really at the back in the throat, not like the English r that’s at the back of the mouth. i dunno. Personally I had trouble with actually making it vibrate until it did, after repeating the word rot a lot lol.

 

[Kiwi2Shoes]

Do you guys have any good resources for learning Russian?
I wanna go there some day.

 

[GenociderSyo]

I've had good luck with the colloquial series. You get a workbook and book book and audio that goes along with both.

 

[Devout Muslim]

Yeah, what I mean by okayish is it's okay to pick up a little vocabulary in the 5 minutes you're taking a shit. Beats reading the back of the shampoo bottles anyway. But it's not a serious language learning tool. At most it's for dabbling to see if you like a language and want to get more serious about picking it up.

Tbh they don’t even consider themselves a serious language learning tool. I think it works good as a vocab supplement for analytic languages and in keeping the fire burning; I have a 47 day streak at the moment on DuoLingo and I don’t hit the textbook that frequently.

As pork and beans noted, it’s probably much less useful with synthetic languages as the vocabulary is not so distinct from the grammar.

 

[Hard Toothbrush]

I've got through some of the Goethe's A1 preparation but don't really know how to progress. I looked for classes near me, but my country is incredibly hostile to learning languages, and the only class I found was 2hours a week for 8 weeks, which also claimed to make you fluent.
I'm not sure what the bar is for considering yourself fluent, but I don't think being able to say Hello/Goodbye, Please/Thanks, and Where is the toilet? is it. I always figured fluency is when you no longer have to translate in your head, which isn't going to happen in 16 hours.

As an ESL teacher: LOL. The only fluent it'll make you is less affluent.
Consider this, how long did it take you to "become fluent" in your own language? It sure as shit took longer than 16 hours. Even if my students had, say, 15 hours of English a week (and they don't, we all have shit to do), that's still only 60 hours a month, around 720 hours a year. Compare that to literal tens of thousands of hours of total immersion in your own language among native speakers with varying accents, vocal tones and differing ways of speaking.

I think it's immersion and imitation rather than memorization, because i literally never studied

That's quite literally it. This is how you learn your own language after all.
In your toddlerhood there eventually comes a time when crying no longer cuts it and you have to start imitating the adults around you to get what you want (be it things like attention or affection or things like sweets). From this (and from hundreds of hours of listening to adults before) comes the eventual association of various sounds to concepts.

 

[General Woundwort]

As an ESL teacher: LOL. The only fluent it'll make you is less affluent.
Consider this, how long did it take you to "become fluent" in your own language? It sure as shit took longer than 16 hours. Even if my students had, say, 15 hours of English a week (and they don't, we all have shit to do), that's still only 60 hours a month, around 720 hours a year. Compare that to literal tens of thousands of hours of total immersion in your own language among native speakers with varying accents, vocal tones and differing ways of speaking.

That's quite literally it. This is how you learn your own language after all.
In your toddlerhood there eventually comes a time when crying no longer cuts it and you have to start imitating the adults around you to get what you want (be it things like attention or affection or things like sweets). From this (and from hundreds of hours of listening to adults before) comes the eventual association of various sounds to concepts.

This is what I mean. Even getting a language visa they expect 4 hours study a day, but that's along with living there. How to immerse without always leaning back on your native language while still in your home country.
And when learning your native language, most people had parents who repeated words until you got it right. Whereas as an adult, you say a word wrong and people are like "You're not very good at that lol" instead of correcting you. If you have no one to repeat back to you or confirm if you're pronouncing it correctly, shit's hard.

Is it worth just watching shows in target language even if you don't know wtf is going on? I've hard a lot of people use that to improve their English skills but usually it's when they're still taking classes or are basically fluent already.

 

[Hard Toothbrush]

Whereas as an adult, you say a word wrong and people are like "You're not very good at that lol" instead of correcting you.

Yeah that's a retarded thing that happens sometimes. Personally I'm thrilled whenever I hear a foreigner try to use my language and help them out.

Is it worth just watching shows in target language even if you don't know wtf is going on? I've hard a lot of people use that to improve their English skills but usually it's when they're still taking classes or are basically fluent already.

Depends on your skill level and the complexity of the language used in the show. If the difference is too big you won't get much out of it since you might not be able to work out the rough meaning just from contextual clues (e.g. if you see two doctors holding clipboards in hospital they're probably using words connected to medicine or health).
Maybe try watching some news channels. The presenters usually speak clearly and not terribly quickly and for the most part you get to hear one person speaking at a time.
Some of my students told me that watching shows for toddlers and young children was actually quite helpful (simple language and visuals), though you'd have to stomach children's entertainment. Now that I think about it I might download some episodes of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood or The Electric Company and use them as teaching aid. If nothing else seeing their reaction to a young Morgan Freeman with an afro would be amusing.

I do wonder whether Null picked up some Ukrainian and/or Serbian through the years. It'd be interesting to hear his perspective.

 

[Fapcop]

OP - I would STRONGLY advise against learning Russian to use in most, if not all Eastern European countries. That is not a period of history viewed fondly by people in any of those countries and the use of the Russian language was symbolic of their oppression and status as client states of the Soviet Union. Shoot, if you tried that in the Baltic states you might get killed if you come across the wrong way.

Meh… Estonians, Lithuanian and Latvians are all fucking animals anyways. They don’t need an excuse to fuck people up.

Otoh those countries have a huge Russian minority, and Russian is the best way to communicate with them.

As for the rest of Europe, it depends on where you are. It’s a great language to get by with, in Bulgaria, Serbia and Moldavia. In other places the older generations used to study Russian in school and may still remember some.

And of course if you speak Russian, it makes it easier to learn or at least make yourself understood in other Slav languages like Polish, Czech, Serb, etc. Some words are the same or very close across the different languages: Like water or bread, yes and no.

Greetings fellow Kiwis, and sorry for double posting like a faggot.

I speak Danish, English and Polish fluently, as well as some German and Swedish.

Am currently trying to learn Russian. And later on hopefully Hebrew. Would like to know some Spanish too, mainly for travel/holiday purposes.

Russian is kinda hard though, mainly because of the alphabet.

I would say that learning to write mandarin is hugely beneficial in learning to read mandarin. Stroke order is also a significant advantage because you develop a muscle memory. Learning Pianpeng and bushou (the reused subunits of characters) is also important, because it reduces a character from a complex collection of say 25 lines to a simple arrangement 2 or 3 known units. Imo the best way to learn is to visit a China town (or China) and buy children’s writing books for pianpeng/bushou/basic characters.

Others in this thread have recommended against using pinyin but I had no issues with it. I think bomofo or whatever is only really a Tw thing anyway. When learning to read any language written in the latin script you need to learn the phonetic mapping, you can’t just assume it’s as per your native tongue. Even consonants as innocuous as t are pronounced differently in different languages.

Geez, I can’t even imagine learning mandarin. Not so much the language, the sounds seem easy enough to pronounce.

But the alphabet? And a whole DIFFERENT kind of alphabet?! Fuck that, lol!

Good on you though! If I was younger, I’d definitely try and learn Chinese. Seems to be to the 21st century what English was to the 20th.

keep trying!! i honestly could not do it until suddenly i could. dont take it too seriosuly, just whenever youre studying read the words aloud and really try to make it vibrate and you'll get it. you'll do it If you know how to roll your r's you can do that and copy the bavarians. That's what my german teacher does, lol.

Real rolled R’s can also come in handy with other languages!

It’s funny though, if you go to a place like Denmark, which is RIGHT next to Germany, nobody there knows how to do that hard R. It just doesn’t exist, kinda like when Japanese say R instead of L, because they can’t pronounce it.

Russian has a similar letter that they can’t pronounce from what I can tell: H.

So instead of saying “Hitler” or “Himmler” or “Hillary” they’ll say “Gitler” “Gimmler” or “Eellary”.

I think Hebrew has problems with the G sound. Instead of “Gaza” they say “Aza” but not 100% on that one.